France success: tactical question ?

[thopper]

1 : Hi I'm new so ... ;)
2 : I'm french and i just want to say that after seeing the match vs Croatia I wonder if the team is really capable of going to the finale :
- Henry and Trezeguet never found the solution in both of the games. OK the defenses were specific but if each team apply the same tactic ... ( have they to be substitute ... ?)
- the midfield is the best with Zidane and Viera who gave me the best impression of the team since the beginning
- i think there's a pb too in defense not with Barthez (he played good) but the rest of the defense : Desailly is old and not in good form (mistake vs Croatia => goal), Lizarazu and Thuram ... i don't know they didn't let me on a good impression, Gallas and Silvestre are inexperimented in the selection, even if they're good players,and vs Croatia they didn't help, in my opinion, the midfielders enough => they stayed on the french the most of the time like Lizarazu did on the first match vs England.

So except Sagnol (and Lizarazu and Thuram) and the midfield the team has to improve itself for the next game because if France goes to 1/4 it's possible to meet Spain and I'm not sure we wil pass if it happens ... I think Santini will have the most important role for the future because the individuals are great, the collective is great, the form is here for the most, it is a question of tactic I think ...


Excuse my english i'm better in french ... ;)

[USsupport]

Desailly is old and not in good form (mistake vs Croatia => goal), Lizarazu and Thuram ... i don't know they didn't let me on a good impression, Gallas and Silvestre are inexperimented in the selection, even if they're good players,and vs Croatia they didn't help, in my opinion, the midfielders enough => they stayed on the french the most of the time like Lizarazu did on the first match vs England.

So except Sagnol (and Lizarazu and Thuram) and the midfield the team has to improve itself for the next game because if France goes to 1/4 it's possible to meet Spain and I'm not sure we wil pass if it happens ... I think Santini will have the most important role for the future because the individuals are great, the collective is great, the form is here for the most, it is a question of tactic I think ...


Excuse my english i'm better in french ... ;)

agreed that your lot looks shaky in the back and I've not seen much from your strikers either. Silvestre is a good player but he may be a liability now as he may be second guessing himself in the penalty box after the last two games. he was unlucky today as that didn't look like a penalty to me but the fact remains that he's given up two so far. The Swiss shouldn't be too hard for your team as they've yet to score a goal, so I think you'll still top the group.

[Zizou]

Thats exactly what I've been woundering all day since Croatia game ended.

IMO, Santini have some responsibility on choosing his squad. Let's see, Gallas on the right back?!!! What the hell is goin' on!
Thuram is a bit old and he actually prefer to play a CB. Then who could be other choice, Sagnol? OK the guy is good but I just don't know why I don't see him good enough to play a complete match and am talking about a real hard match. What if Gallas or Sagnol face Vicente of Spain? I bet things gonna be horrible out there. You might argue about this, but I would pick Mendy. He is too young and without experince at all, Yeah that's right but he has great potential and he could be usefull as a substitute.

Last night, I can say France missed Makelele. Dacourt played good, but Viera needed someone just like Mak. A player who would keep running and tackling through the whloe game in a same perfect level.

Zidane????? This guy is "Miracle". This is the different between him and other fantastic current players. He always comes up with alternative soultions.
Have you seen how the players tried to get him the ball whenever they get it? That's always happen but today Les Blues needed more than a good midfield.

Henry and TRez, mmmmmmmmm. I think this one could be on Santini. Lomere used to play 4-2-3-1. With Trez up front. That gives Henry an enough space to make his incrideible runs. In this tournament? Still, haven't seen enough from Henry or Trez, especially Henry.
Now Santini looks like strickt about 4-4-2. That makes henry goes deep in opponents defence. Henry looked useless in this situation, unfortunatly.

Hopefully we don't face Spain, I prefer Portugal or Greece.

Sorry, my English is horrible too :).

[SirManchester]

If they started Pires and Lizarazu instead of dacourt and desailly maybe they could have done beter because Pires always creates chances from the wing and Liza always pushes up, he did well against England. Desailly is just a disaster, the guy is clearly not cut out for this tournament and the French underestimated Croatia.

Henry has been shut down pretty effectively in both games so far, managing only a little and Trezeguet to me is barely visible, despite the goal against Croatia.

[paulocesar]

France cannot win Euro 2004 if Desailly and/or Silveste are in at centerback...hec, i don't think Silveste should even play fullback.

Santini has to bite the bullet and drop his captain. His time has past. And Silveste isn't ready yet. Bixente to the left, Thuram and Gallas (his true position) in the center, and Sagnol to the right. They get their back line right, they should be alright.

Their offense is also a problem, and if Trezguet didn't score, then Santini would have shuffeled things there too. Now, its unlikely. I'd restore the Arsenal lineup, especially against Switzerland and their weak backline, and have Henry at the top, Pires to the left and Wiltord to the right, with Zidane in a free role in the hole. Now THAT would be worth watching.

Veira so far has been their most consistent player (okay..Zidane and i guess Bartez deserve kudos here), but that's still not been up to even his own standards. I think Makalele and Patrick play the exact same role, and as Arsenal sees when Gilberto Silva plays alongside Veira, its not as good as with Edu, or even Parlour. Again, its not the weak area for France right now, but I don't think France realize how important that role was when Deschamp or Petit played there with Patrick.

Trezguet should be a super sub, and Rothen should get a sub look against Switzerland if France qualify...he needs to be a part of the campaign, as well as the other substitutes. The key to winning Euro 2000 was utilizing everyone in important circumstances...Pires, Anelka, Wiltord, Candela, Karembeau and especially Djorkaef, although he also started some games. Hec, even Lama had a game, didn't he???

But if France keep using Desailly and Silveste...its over for them.

[Rima067]

I think Henry really needs to play as he plays for Arsenal, a more free role on the side and let Trezeguet do what he does best (and better than Henry and anyone in the team) and stay in the box.

They were perfect together for the qualifiers, I remember in a game (don't remember which one, but one of the qualifiers, where Henry passed the ball straight to Trezeguet from nearly the half-way line and Trezeguet on the first shot got it in the net - Trez became a pretzel, but still! :) ) it was brilliant and it emphasised what Henry always talked about that they naturally play to each other and their strenghts and are practically telepathic. They scored so much. Of course, now the defenders are so strong on them and almost choking them, but I wish Henry at this pont would even ignore the coach and just play how he plays best!

Why won't Santini let this happen? Henry does not need to stay so close to Trez... how can Santini think it is more of a harm to let Henry roam.. what good has it done?

Santini is like a third central defender on Henry and Trezeguet!

He must give it a chance, I beg of him!


As for defence, I think Thuram was very good and strong against England as a CB, I wish they will play him again w/ Gallas. I thought Lizarazu did fine, but I don't think I have any qualms with Sagnol, though I've not seen enough of him.

Also, I like Wiltord, but as I see it now, I think he plays better as a sub and Santini should start with Pires.

Barthez has been absolute class. As, of course, Vieira and Zidane have been.

[Rima067]

Their offense is also a problem, and if Trezguet didn't score, then Santini would have shuffeled things there too. Now, its unlikely. I'd restore the Arsenal lineup, especially against Switzerland and their weak backline, and have Henry at the top, Pires to the left and Wiltord to the right, with Zidane in a free role in the hole. Now THAT would be worth watching.

Trezguet should be a super sub,.


I disagree about Trez. He plays the same as he's always had, I think the only difference here is that he's (and France's attackers are) being so very tightly marked. I also believe Henry's performance affects his.

I don't blame him.

I truly think if Henry's given his correct role (meaning the same role he plays for Arsenal) they will click again. Dear God, come on Santini!

[Excape Goat]

I am going to go slightly off topic. All winners need luck. France seems to have all luck going their way. They will go very far.

[aloisius]

Trez is just getting into Henry's way. Zidane is starting on the left, but he’ll obviously be cutting inside all the time. That just creates more congestion in the middle.


So my suggestion would be: Drop Trezeguet, play Zidane behind Henry, and Start Rothen on the Left wing.

[sendorange]

Playing a true left winger with Henry in the team is pointless. Henry loves cutting in from the left side, even when playing as lead striker, that's his main strength and putting Rothen in there would be unneccessary and cramp Henry's style.

The main problem is that Henry just does not handle the pressure of big games well, and also teams have been well prepared against him and know how he plays. He needs to adjust his game and become more unpredictable, he also just needs to play better, like Zidane does when he is under pressure. That's what makes great players into world stars.

[Rima067]

Playing a true left winger with Henry in the team is pointless. Henry loves cutting in from the left side, even when playing as lead striker, that's his main strength and putting Rothen in there would be unneccessary and cramp Henry's style.

The main problem is that Henry just does not handle the pressure of big games well, and also teams have been well prepared against him and know how he plays. He needs to adjust his game and become more unpredictable, he also just needs to play better, like Zidane does when he is under pressure. That's what makes great players into world stars.

I agree with both, and I forgot to mention Henry's handling of big games.

[iougs]

That France-Croatia game was strange ... During the first half, it looked like France was in complete control (although the played pretty crappy) and the Croates looked very passive, like they did not believe in themselves ... Compare that with the second half when the Croates upped their confidence and played so much better, and quite frankly, better than the French team ...

I don't know much about the tactical formation but it really looks like something is missing somewhere ... I am not a big fan of the long ball from the right where Pires usually is ... and I would like the midfielders to take shots more often when they get close ... I also think they should play more on the sides (Gallas did pretty good on the right going up, but the left side was not there).

There are a lot of "what if" ... but the defense should probably consist of Liza-Sagnol-Gallas-Thuram ... Please, no more Desailly ... Wiltord should not be starting ... the midfield should be Zizou-Pires-Vieira-Makalele ... upfront, Henry and whoever (Trez,Saha,Govou) ... I'd rather have a guy that can break a defense like Govou-Saha then a target man like Trez.

From what I saw during the Croatia game, I doubt France can go very far unless massive amounts of luck come into play. Realistically, they could have lost both games and be on their way home (again) early.

I think Santini sucks and I am glad he'll be gone soon. I hope the next guy brings in new people and make them play.

iougs-

[thopper]

I totally agree with IOUGS on the fact that the miedfielders, and the team in genaral, don't take their chance on the 20-25M : it can be really efficient (see Karagounis, Heinz, Rooney ... just in the tournament).
And the chance is a good point but I'm not sure that the chance will be on the french side all the time ... And even if France win the cup because of chance ... (too much chance in this sentence)
And as a conclusion, when France will scrore in a real action please ?!!

[prk166]

They should've brought Mexes.