Man Utd players in Euro 2004 - [R]

[Motterman]

All reports and discussions regarding Manchester United players for their respective national teams should be placed in this thread. Thank you. Results of live matches may be mentioned here, so consider yourself warned.

[Soccerholic]

Good idea for a thread, Motterman.

Great goal by Ruud against the Germans - one of the goals of the tournament so far. (The defender had his arm completely around Ruud's neck and looked like he was wrestling an alligator. Seriously, how or why is that legal?)

The Dutch played as poor of a game as I have ever seen from them until Van Hooijdonk came in. Even then, Holland was just putting long balls up to PVH up top and hoping something good happened. They lacked much of the creativity and attacking cohesion their sides are known for. They will have to do much better or this will be a very short tournament for them.

[Potomac Red Devil]

Ruud's goal was one of the best of the tournament so far. Ronaldo's goal was class too.

The Dutch looked awful against the Germans, but then the Germans looked surprisingly good. Who was the young player who came on late for Germany? He definitely looked like a good prospect for a big club.

[Potomac Red Devil]

There are rumors of Sven returning to the diamond today, with Scholes behind the forwards, Lampard in a holding role, and Gerrard on the left.

I think this would be a mistake, and I'm just not sure there is room for Scholes and Lampard in midfield. Why not start Hargreaves on the left, Gerrard at a holding role, and Scholes to support the attack? Then bring on Lampard for Scholes around the 60th minute.

[Achtung]

Gary Neville's cross finds Steven Gerrard after Wayne Rooney scores a brace as England beat Switzerland 3-0.

[Motterman]

Gary Neville's cross finds Steven Gerrard after Wayne Rooney scores a brace as England beat Switzerland 3-0.

Hehe.... surely this is only Manchester United related because of Gary Neville only, right? :D

[Coach_McGuirk]

Hehe.... surely this is only Manchester United related because of Gary Neville only, right? :D
Funny. The Chelsea guys seem to think this has more to do with them.

[Achtung]

Hehe.... surely this is only Manchester United related because of Gary Neville only, right? :D

*shifty eyes*

Well, you see, the thing about that is *runs out of cube and outside building* ;)

[phishy]

Funny. The Chelsea guys seem to think this has more to do with them.

ya coach, they think anyone who has a blinder is somehow linked to them...
"insert name here.. had a great game, lets get Roman to buy him!!"

[johno]

There are rumors of Sven returning to the diamond today, with Scholes behind the forwards, Lampard in a holding role, and Gerrard on the left.

I think this would be a mistake, and I'm just not sure there is room for Scholes and Lampard in midfield. Why not start Hargreaves on the left, Gerrard at a holding role, and Scholes to support the attack? Then bring on Lampard for Scholes around the 60th minute.


They played flat and I think they will remain that way barring a change in the starting 4 midfielders. Scholes behind the forwards is not really necessary due to the pace and dribbling of both forwards, in fact all England forwards save Heskey. They don't need a withdrawn striker as much as others do. And England seems to hold possesion better when Scholes is in the middle, he often plays holding mid when we have the ball while Gerrard or Lampard make runs and the other one lurks near him.

Becks was marvelous today... he played a part in all of them iirc...
the first one came from his pinpoint ball to Owen who then crossed it to Rooney... I cant recall the second goal but I believe he played the penultimate ball again (was it crossfield?), and he did the same for the third... nothing on the stat sheet, but he is still the man for England...

Gary set up one of the goals.. he and Becks showed they were on the same wavelength when he made an overlapping run when Becks rolled it forward for him to cross to Gerrard/Rooney... damnit the game has gone fuzzy in my head...

[VaVaVoom]

What's the verdict on Scholes' performance so far?

No doubt about the guy's quality for your club, but he just doesn't seem to be doing it for England. A big part of that is because he's being played out of position, so it's not a personal attack on him. However, Sven needs to make a choice between him and Lampard because it's not working. I think Scholes is hurting England's play on both ends of the pitch.

He was playing like he had a completely free role today, not just drifting inside, but showing up all over the pitch. As a result, he's not providing any cover whatsoever to Ashley Cole. That means Cole either stays back completely (and he still could get caught 2-on-1) or he leaves the entire left side exposed. Lampard did an excellent job today of getting back and filling the space that Scholes was leaving.

And on the offensive side, he's crowding Lampard and Gerrard and seems to be disturbing the flow. I would have at least hoped for a bit more offensively today given the license he had to roam the pitch. But he didn't really add anything, and the only thing that was on for England on the left was long balls to Cole (long balls to the fullback? something not right about that). Gerrard had to drift out there to provide some balance, but that throws the whole team off kilter.

Is it a lack of confidence (given the length of the int'l goal drought)? Not sure. But I don't think England can beat the best teams consistently (and even if they get out of the group, they'll need to beat 3 great teams, not just squeeze by one) with Scholes on the left. If Sven insists on playing him, I'd give Lampard a rest and move him next to Gerrard. As for the left... isn't that always the question :) I'd put Bridge there. Putting the 4 best individuals in midfield is not providing the best team performance, and all that matters from this point forward is results.

[jegerpenge]

There are rumors of Sven returning to the diamond today, with Scholes behind the forwards, Lampard in a holding role, and Gerrard on the left.

I think this would be a mistake, and I'm just not sure there is room for Scholes and Lampard in midfield. Why not start Hargreaves on the left, Gerrard at a holding role, and Scholes to support the attack? Then bring on Lampard for Scholes around the 60th minute.

The only thing I would disagree with you on is that I would switch the roles of Lampard and Scholes. Scholes just isn't as dangerous for England as he is for ManU and Lampard's form for Chelsea seems to have carried over.

[Mac_Howard]

Sven is trying to come up with a working midfield but he's faced with a hopeless imbalance in midfield. I don't just mean the left-right imbalance - no left midfield to speak of - but the attack/defence imbalance. He doesn't have a worthwhile DM. It was Butt (and we here know just how good he is/isn't) but even he is out now. So, to give any sort of support to defence, he requires all 4 to funnel back and defend deep.

It's working reasonably. England were so close to beating France who didn't create a single worthwhile chance from open play and Switzerland managed just two shots on goal, neither of which caused James much pain (thank goodness for he's surely the worst 'keeper in the tournament).

Sven gets away with this deep midfield because all six of his non-defensive players can score. Even with Owen and Scholes misfiring the other four are coming good (had Beckham scored his penalty all four would be on the scoresheets).

The flat midfield four is new - first used against Iceland - and hopefully it will improve its cohesion. Scholes gets the short straw out left - mainly because Lampard isn't quite as dangerous to his own defence in the tackle - but is allowed to move inside occasionally where he does his best work and I think, even in this setup, has been more creatively effective than Lampard.

Beckham's passing, incidentally, has been superb though we haven't seen as much of him as we should.

[johno]

Sven is trying to come up with a working midfield but he's faced with a hopeless imbalance in midfield. I don't just mean the left-right imbalance - no left midfield to speak of - but the attack/defence imbalance. He doesn't have a worthwhile DM. It was Butt (and we here know just how good he is/isn't) but even he is out now. So, to give any sort of support to defence, he requires all 4 to funnel back and defend deep.

It's working reasonably. England were so close to beating France who didn't create a single worthwhile chance from open play and Switzerland managed just two shots on goal, neither of which caused James much pain (thank goodness for he's surely the worst 'keeper in the tournament).

Sven gets away with this deep midfield because all six of his non-defensive players can score. Even with Owen and Scholes misfiring the other four are coming good (had Beckham scored his penalty all four would be on the scoresheets).

The flat midfield four is new - first used against Iceland - and hopefully it will improve its cohesion. Scholes gets the short straw out left - mainly because Lampard isn't quite as dangerous to his own defence in the tackle - but is allowed to move inside occasionally where he does his best work and I think, even in this setup, has been more creatively effective than Lampard.

Beckham's passing, incidentally, has been superb though we haven't seen as much of him as we should.

Insightful as always... I tipped England's midfield to score 10 goals this tournament and I think they will, or atleast get close to it... Scholes will end his drought with a brace in the next fixture... if u look at Owen's Cross to Rooney, Scholes was right there, and had Rooney not taken it, Scholes would have for sure...

As for the midfield I think Sven has to sit Gerrard down and tell him that for the first half, or until England have a lead, he is to be the anchor of the team... Scholes and Lampard should be allowed both to roam forward, both set up chances for strikers and other midfielders and Becks likes to do his work from deep as well, so while they play flat, Gerrard should be the anchor... his long passes are better than Lampard's anyway and his tackling is good - he has the mental capacity to run the show from the middle and it would actually build character and give him more responsibility... he should not see it as a burden but a privilleged responsibility, basically the keys to the midfield... In the second half I can see Lampard and Gerrard switching off occasionally to let the scouser get into attack abit. I am worried about the backing off of the midfield and allowing players to advance on them... England will soon concede when someone cracks one from distance, u just cannot allow players room that much room....

Well... I must say, Silvestre is having a torrid time at the moment... I did not see the penalty live, but I caught it on the news and it looks like he was the one that conceeded it again! Prso also made him look silly... I hope poor Euro form does not affect his confidence too much and spill over to ManU, however at least now we have cover...

Terry did not impress me today, not very proactive and I think had Rio been in this tourney England would have been more confident going forward...

Seriously, England has terrible luck with injuries/absences at big time tourneys...

WC 2002, Gerrard, Neville
Euro 04, Rio, Butt

I think if Gerrard were there in 2002, England might have done better... and Butt- although crap for ManU, is exactly what the midfield needs right now... 1 player dedicated to staying back... not as a starter necessarily, and certainly not in every game, but to come on as a sub and keep things steady...

[Dark Savante]

Gary Neville - I think I should give him his due for once, he really has looked solid and dependable down the right side.. and when Zidane would rather pass infield then take on his man he has to have been doing something right. What has impressed me alot with Neville is his final ball.. it seems to be back to Euro '96 standards when he was a superb crosser. That area of his game has been erratic and mostly absent for a number of years, but recently there is a consistency to everything he does, long may it continue.

Mikel Silvestre - conceded 2penalities in 2games so far and both have been clumsy attempts wich were irrefuteable. Silvestre looks like the kind of player who really needs a stable and intelligent partner alongside him whether it is the other CB when he is a CB, or the CB and LM when he is played as a LB. He is actually playing in a very similar manner as he does for Man U. Moments of brilliance mixed with sudden moments of insanity..needless, rash tackles when nothing in particular is on for the attacker. His pace covers alot of his errors, but when asked to make a timely tackle you always feel he'll make a mess of it. I think he'll be benched by the time the QF roll round. In fact, I think France will go Sagnol-Gallas-Thuram-Lizarizu until they are knocked out or win.

David Beckham (Ex ManU eheh ) - Hasn't impressed me in the slightest thus far. Everyone knows what he is capable of with regards to his passing - it is par for the course and his forte, nothing really to applaud anymore, it is what is expected of him, anything less would be an under performance - his running, positioning and leadership have been poor thus far. The England team have had periods of awful possession and poor outlet play. Beckham's 'refusal' to make himself available via running into space, is leaving the team condensed and that is another reason why the backline have to just hoof the ball upfield . I'd put this down to his time in Madrid where he has been playing centrally and hasn't had to make many direct runs at the opposition . Not only that, Beckham's passing ability can be utilised better by Madrid players then it can by England whose only play with an instantaneous controlled first touch is Rooney as opposed to Figo, Zidane, Ronaldo and Raul to an extent. Beckham has to realise this and start playing balls the way he did at O.T- into space for the player to run onto. If he raises his game we should see more movement from the entire midfield and front line and more space for GNeville as opposing players rush to close Beckham down and leave a ton of space to play balls into.

C Ronaldo - Thus far has been Portugal's best player - which isn't hard - always looks like something will happen when he is on the ball and he seems to be bearing more weight on his shoulders then Figo, which I think is a disgrace. His Man U form has definitely carried over into this tournament and many are demanding he start against the Spanish (which I don't agree with) off the back of his displays. Some commented on his crosses in the game against Greece, but more than half of those were the fault of the Portuguese strikers all running to the (extremely) crowded near post whilst not being good headers of the ball...back post was the logical choice for alot of the crosses... Ronaldo may well line up against Puyol on Sunday!! I think he'll give Puyol a headache and force Joaquin back for the double team.. the wide play -both ways - is going to be the best of the entire tournament me thinks. Ronaldo will never come up against a winger as sklful as he is (Joaquin) again and as such this could be as much about ego as it is about skills. :) Ronaldo is certainly proving he is the real deal. His crossing 'improved' (see point above) vs. Russia and again he stole the show.

Scholes - Out of position and unhappy on the left. He is constantly drifting infield and exposing Cole to the world. It is only because of his superb passing and vision that he's getting himself out of trouble. His passing is second only to Beckham's and for that reason alone he needs to be on the field. his distribution and forward movement is causing opposition problems (as we would expect) but he is still low on confidence..and playing out of position isn't helping. He can do so much more than is being displayed.

Potential Targets...ahem :)

Gerrard - Hasn't really settled down yet. Played quite poorly considering what he is capable of. Has to be aware he can be the lynchpin of the team and generate a dynamo all by himself. If England stay in the tournament long enough he will definitely grow in stature and show everyone his true worth. His trsnfer value wont have gone up off the back of his performances thus far. Which is a good thing.. for us.

Rooney - That's another 10mill slapped on the kid. It is obvious that he is the real deal. It's not often you see Thuram on the back foot.. His shot precision is impressive but that aggressive streak is a little to much. He looks like a red card waiting to happen.. I don't if a move to O.T would calm the boy or make him worse >>>!! I think Rooney is open to suggestion from the senior members of the team.. If Becks told him to go to Man Utd he would. (Fat chance of Becks saying that lol.) Rooney will shine for as long as he is not sent off there are very few defenders who will be able to contain him.

[Potomac Red Devil]

France has to feel very fortunate to have 4 points. 3 of their goals have been gifts from the opposition, and you can even make a case that all 4 goals have been gifts. Their attack hasn't really produced a single goal so far.

[Motterman]

Mikel Silvestre - conceded 2penalities in 2games so far and both have been clumsy attempts wich were irrefuteable.

I didn't see the the England-France game, but in the Croatian game, the Croat must have had Davor (the Diver) Suker as a childhood hero... blatant simulation on that "penalty" call IMO. He didn't even take a second to get back up and celebrate "winning" the penalty either. He was looking for it all the way and conned the ref brilliantly...

[Dark Savante]

I didn't see the the England-France game, but in the Croatian game, the Croat must have had Davor (the Diver) Suker as a childhood hero... blatant simulation on that "penalty" call IMO.

You cannot bumble into people like that in the box. It assists their simulation. Most refs would have called that a pen, I'm inclined to agree. Silvestre shouldn't do things like that in the box. It's suicidal!!

[johno]

You cannot bumble into people like that in the box. It assists their simulation. Most refs would have called that a pen, I'm inclined to agree. Silvestre shouldn't do things like that in the box. It's suicidal!!

It was a penalty... it was a bad tackle and Silvestre has been exposed thus far...

[Achtung]

It was a penalty... it was a bad tackle and Silvestre has been exposed thus far...

Yes Silvestre was supposed to be the burst of youth in an aging French backline, but he's done more harm than good. Barthez saved his ass once, but couldn't do it again. I wouldn't be surprised if Santini sat Silvestre for at least one game.