Off Topic: Travelling to Brasil Question

[Flying Weasel]

I am planning a trip to Brasil (my second) and right now it looks like I will have an overnight layover in the Rio de Janeiro airport or São Paulo airport on my return to the U.S.

Does anyone have any experience with spending the night (and trying to catch some shut-eye) in either of these airports? How safe did you feel and could you find any place to get semi-comfortable?

I've done the overnight in the airport thing a couple times in other airports in Europe, but don't have hardly any experience in South America. Any insight, advice, or comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

[fordfjord]

Tough call. Speaking as an American married to a Sao Paulo native, I am probably a little biased toward being extra cautious and getting a hotel room for the night. My wife has been the one to get me in the habit of keeping our luggage in front of me (not to the side, definately not behind!), even those bags on a strap hung about the neck and shoulders. Bags must be kept within eyesight, and moreover, we won't allow them to sit on the floor without at least one of our hands on it. Paranoia? I don't know, but she is still amazed at how incredibly lax personal security is here Stateside (even post 9/11). I could only imagine her reaction to my telling her that I planned on taking a short nap in the terminal while awaiting our next flight... :p

Just to give you an idea of the possible danger level involved, Brasil's Globo Internacional channel reported the other day that Brasil ranked in the top three most violent countries in the world (to be honest, I don't remember which spot it held - I do remember my wife and her mother hearing that on Jornal Internacional, and sort of gasping in disbelief...). To me, anywhere in the top 10 or 20 would be bad. Don't get me wrong - I love visiting the country, and I actually can see myself retiring there one day. But as a whole, there are still major safety/security issues that need to be overcome throughout the country, and not just in the airports.

There, that said, if I was given the choice of which airport to spend time in, I would choose Santos Dumond in Rio. Much nicer atmosphere, and close enough to area shopping/attractions/etc. for taxi fares not to be too big of a deal. Guarulhos in Sao Paulo is a typical international airport, but way the hell out in the boonies - to far away to do anything useful, should the need strike you. Congonhas (in Sao Paulo proper) has always reminded me of a military barracks- old, cement walls, small and confined, not to mention being way too close to the undesireable street element - definately my last choice.

[rednaxel]

Bias is the right word. Most brazilians that live outside Brazil tend to exaggerate the problems of the country, not only violence. Most robbers at airports and bus stations target careless people, and actually do not use violence (just pick and run/hide). It happens anywere in the world, including USA and Europe. Would you fall asleep in a foreign airport with your luggage in the floor around you?

We cannot take crime numbers from a huge and problematic city like São Paulo and apply them to the entire country. In smaller cities the rates are way lower, and people can leave the car open with the keys inside. I lived 7 years in Bagé, about 400 Km from Porto Alegre (RS), with more than 100,000 inhabitants (not so small), and the homicide rate were about 10 murders per year.

[rednaxel]

Just to give you an idea of the possible danger level involved, Brasil's Globo Internacional channel reported the other day that Brasil ranked in the top three most violent countries in the world (...)
Homicide Trends and Characteristics --- Brazil, 1980--2002
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5308a1.htm#fig1

While Brazil's average (in 2002) was about 28 per 100,000, São Paulo's rate was 53. The national average is pulled up by the big cities, and this situation is the same all around the world. See this link:

The United States of murder
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm

"A survey conducted by the UK Home Office of 20 European and nine North American cities [in 1998] put the US capital way out in front with a murder rate of 69.3 per 100,000 population. (...) Washington was a long way ahead of the second most murderous city, Philadelphia, which had a rate of 27.4."

[Flying Weasel]

Thanks fordfjord for taking the time to reply. My question was an odd one and I wasn't sure if I'd get much response, so I appreciate it. It seemed clear that your take is on the more over-precautious end of the spectrum, and I took that into account. I'm not so over-cautious myself, and can feel comfortable in some situations that others wouldn't. But I also prefer not to do something stupid or completely ill-advised, and thus this thread.

rednaxel, I'm actually coming to Gravataí near Porto Algre. I hope I can arrange it so I can go to Gre-Nal on July 10th. I am an Inter fan myself, but have friends down there on both sides of the rivalry. Is there any difficulty getting tickets to Gre-Nal? If I can't arrange to stay until the 10th, I will go to the Inter match on the July 3rd. I'm squeezing in a short vacation despite having a desk-full at work, so I can't stay as long as I normally would like after paying the RT airfare. It's tricky planning a trip this last-minute, but I didn't know when I'd be able to get away from work until recently.

Back to my topic, my brother who has made many trips back and forth from the US to Porto Alegre thought Sao Paulo might be better than Rio, but he never over-nighted in any of the airports, so he couldn't really speak from that perspective.

[fordfjord]

Hey, no problem - I used to be a little more "free-spirited" myself, so-to-speak. Then I got married, had a son, and assumed a whole host of new responsibilities. Family security ranks right up there now.

rednaxel's got a really good point, too - I have visited both Rio and Sao Paulo (high crime areas, naturally) but also spent some time further down the coast in a town called Peruibe (retirement there, maybe!) Difference between night and day, as far as where I could go all by my lonesome those many years ago (didn't speak a word of Portuguese then...) Thanks for those exact figures, by the way, rednaxel - I sort of took it for granted that the larger cities were indicative of the whole country, which I am glad is just not the case.

My wife just pointed out to me that Rio's international airport is not Santos Dumond, so I have to retract what I understood about your traveling plans. Santos Dumond is the only one I've been to in Rio, but I still stand by its generally good feeling of "Brasilian-ness". Whatever you do end up doing for that layover, I figure, party hard in while you're in Brasil, and sleep on the long flight back...;) !

[Americano e Orgulho]

For what it's worth I have napped in Guarulhos, after my massage for R$15, of course. A steal of a deal and hits the spot after or before a 10+ hour flight. When I napped I just made sure that my bag was linked around my arm. This was during the day. I think my size, however, wards of most moleques, vagabundos, mãos leves, punguistas, etc. Have a great trip. I'm dreaming of my return(christmas?).

edit: I will, however, reccomend a hotel. A decent one in either city is cheap. This advice is only valid if you aren't leaving early.

[fordfjord]

Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about those massage chairs - man, I wish I had done that last time I went through there, my upper back was killing me for weeks after that flight. Good point - great price, too!

[rednaxel]

rednaxel, I'm actually coming to Gravataí near Porto Algre. I hope I can arrange it so I can go to Gre-Nal on July 10th. I am an Inter fan myself, but have friends down there on both sides of the rivalry. Is there any difficulty getting tickets to Gre-Nal? If I can't arrange to stay until the 10th, I will go to the Inter match on the July 3rd.

You can buy your ticket in advance (it is for sale starting one or two days before the match), to avoid shortage, long lines and "cambistas". You could ask your friends to buy your ticket for you.

[Flying Weasel]

For what it's worth I have napped in Guarulhos, after my massage for R$15, of course. A steal of a deal and hits the spot after or before a 10+ hour flight. When I napped I just made sure that my bag was linked around my arm. This was during the day. I think my size, however, wards of most moleques, vagabundos, mãos leves, punguistas, etc. Have a great trip. I'm dreaming of my return(christmas?).

edit: I will, however, reccomend a hotel. A decent one in either city is cheap. This advice is only valid if you aren't leaving early. Well, it looks like I'll be on the last flight out of Porto Alegre at 11:10 PM and getting into São Paulo Guarulhos Int'l at 12:40 AM. Then my flight out is at 7:40 AM to Miami (via Rio). So, accounting for deboarding and check-in, the time to kill (approx. 5 hours) didn't seem enough for getting a hotel to make sense. The massage idea is great, but I imagine I can't get one of those in the middle of the night. Anyway, thanks for the input and insight.

[Flying Weasel]

You can buy your ticket in advance (it is for sale starting one or two days before the match), to avoid shortage, long lines and "cambistas". You could ask your friends to buy your ticket for you. Yes, got an e-mail last night and it sounds like we will have about a dozen or so going--half to the Grêmio section and half with the Inter fans.

It's interesting to hear that tickets only go on sale 1 or 2 days before the match. Just a different culture and way of doing things. My only concern was whether tickets were hard to come by for Gre-Nal, or can most everyone that wants to go find tickets. I didn't want to plan my trip around Gre-Nal if it was unlikely I/we could get tickets. But that doesn't seem to be a problem, so I'll go down the whole week before the game and then fly out after the game on Saturday. I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for your replies rednaxel.

[denver_mugwamp]

Ah, it seems that there's a website for almost everything. In your case, try www.sleepinginairports.com which has some info on airports in Brazil.

[Flying Weasel]

Hey, no problem - I used to be a little more "free-spirited" myself, so-to-speak. Then I got married, had a son, and assumed a whole host of new responsibilities. Family security ranks right up there now. Yeah, I understand. I'm still single myself, but I know that things change some when you have a family (as they well should). Thanks for the input. Looks like I'll be overnighting in São Paulo Guarulhos Int'l as that's way the flights comes up cheapest.

[Flying Weasel]

Ah, it seems that there's a website for almost everything. In your case, try www.sleepinginairports.com (http://www.sleepinginairports.com/) which has some info on airports in Brazil. Yeah, I've been to that site. Too bad more people haven't posted reviews there. Six or eight reviews over the past 3 or more years isn't much to go on. Also, I wish that the site put dates on when reviews were posted. But it's interesting nonetheless. Thanks for suggesting it.

[Americano e Orgulho]

If you can get into the area where your gate is, I don't see any problem with being able to sleep w/o harassment. I once almost missed my connection up to Salvador because I was napping. They, of course, had changed the departure gate whilst I slept. So, when I awoke there was no one around.

[rednaxel]

It's interesting to hear that tickets only go on sale 1 or 2 days before the match. Just a different culture and way of doing things.
(...)
Thanks for your replies rednaxel.

You're welcome. Why sell tickets only 1 or 2 days before the match? It was worse before:

- The league system was first introduced in 2003. Before that, the match schedule was not defined in advance. The tickets were usually sold in the day of the event, often starting in the morning. Long lines were common. Planning to watch a game a month before the event, like you are doing now, was virtually impossible.

- A new law was passed, called "Estatuto do Torcedor" (something like "Sport Fans Defense Code"). This law introduced basic things like security cameras in all stadiums (over 20,000 seats), numbered seats, need to sell tickets at least 2 days before the event, ombudsmen everywhere, etc.

- The code also states that a change in the rules of the competition are only valid in the next season. This eliminates the infamous "virada de mesa", that always happened when some popular team were relegated. Teams like Grêmio, Fluminense and Corinthians are among the "un-relegated".

- When you go often to the stadium (like me), it is better to became member of the club (called "sócio" here). The members pay only a monthly fee and are allowed to go to any game at home. I am member of Sport Club Internacional and watch *almost* all games at home (Beira-Rio stadium).

[Thomas Flannigan]

I think Rio's international airport is on Governor's Island. About 15 years ago two tourists got robbed in the airport even before going through customs. They got back on the next plane and went home.
Having said that, I think you can sleep safely at either Sao Paolo or Rio's airport. There are plainclothes police all over the place. The only danger is a pickpocket. Both GRU and Governor's Island have very good security. Some years ago we could not get out of GRU after endless cancellations (incuding a Varig airplane lavatory overflowing out into the aisle). Varig put us up for 11 hours in a hotel near GRU. Gruesome neighborhood and in the hotel the elevators would only go up, not down. My wife had a delicious screwdriver at the bar (she got dysentary from it) while I drank Brasil's best beer (Cerpa from Belem) very hard to find. Brasil is an incredible place. I wish I was going again.
You will be safe sleeping in the airports. Don't sleep in the subway, though....

[rednaxel]

http://img.terra.com.br/i/2004/04/14/123513-8863-it.jpg
The tickets for Copa do Brasil final (next wednesday) were sold this friday, in less than 2 days. The "cariocas" waited in long lines for them. In the first day of selling (thursday) 8,000 were sold. Prices? R$ 5 to R$ 50.

[rednaxel]

rednaxel, I'm actually coming to Gravataí near Porto Algre. I hope I can arrange it so I can go to Gre-Nal on July 10th.
Are you coming?

[Flying Weasel]

Are you coming? Sorry, I didn't have much internet access during my time in Brasil.

Yes, I was there. It was great! I was with some friends behind the goal where Inter scored. It was an awesome first Gre-Nal classico for me. Hopefully I will get to more in the future.

The only bad thing was not being able to enjoy the game with my girlfriend on my last day in Brasil. She's a Gremista, so she was in their section.