England all time X1

[toonarmy44]

This is inspired from a Tv programme on a few days ago. I thought the team wasn't that bad all though there were a few notible absentees such as Bryan Robson. I'd be interested in what other people thought of it.

[toonarmy44]

the team for all those who did not see it i think was this

-----------Banks---------

Cohen---Adams---Moore---Pearce

Beckham-B.charlton-Gazza--Finney

-------Lineker---Shearer---

not many has witnessed some of the older players play so it is something that could be argued about all day

[erictheking]

What, no Heskey?

[musicl]

How the crap did Shearer get on?
Where is Jimmy Greeves?

How the crap did Gaza get on?
Where is Glen Hoddle?

[Andy Bennett]

How the crap did Shearer get on?
Where is Jimmy Greeves?

How the crap did Gaza get on?
Where is Glen Hoddle?
Greaves didn't even make it into the WC final ahead of Hurst. Good player though.

The real shock there, as far as I'm concerned, is Beckham instead of Stan Matthews.

[musicl]

Greaves didn't even make it into the WC final ahead of Hurst. Good player though.
Your a spud, Greaves was injured for the final.

[Andy Bennett]

Your a spud, Greaves was injured for the final.
Really? That's most interesting. And you're sure of that, are you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1966/tv2.shtml
http://www.gradedreading.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/worldcup1966.html
http://www.givemefootball.com/display.cfm?article=4128&type=1
http://www.world-cup-info.com/profiles/countries/england.htm

[sendorange]

Really? That's most interesting. And you're sure of that, are you?
I assure you that Greaves was injured. There was a chance he could play at less than 100%, but Sir Alf did not want to take it and went for Hurst. If Greaves was fully fit he would have played, and he remains one of the most brilliant strikers to play for England. His goal record in the league and for England speaks for itself.

[Andy Bennett]

I assure you that Greaves was injured. There was a chance he could play at less than 100%, but Sir Alf did not want to take it and went for Hurst. If Greaves was fully fit he would have played, and he remains one of the most brilliant strikers to play for England. His goal record in the league and for England speaks for itself.
I don't think so.

Greaves got clattered by one of the Frogs, IIRC, and missed the quarters and semis. I seem to remember him having to play for quite a while injured, which didn't do him any good.

He was declared fit for the final but Ramsey decided not to break up the partnership of Hurst and Hunt. I seem to remember he was pretty cut up about it at the time as well.

My old man was a Tottenham fan and a big fan of Greaves so it's something I remember pretty well. Great pity because he was one of the best around - but then so is Shearer.

[musicl]

I don't think so.

Greaves got clattered by one of the Frogs, IIRC, and missed the quarters and semis. I seem to remember him having to play for quite a while injured, which didn't do him any good.

He was declared fit for the final but Ramsey decided not to break up the partnership of Hurst and Hunt. I seem to remember he was pretty cut up about it at the time as well.

My old man was a Tottenham fan and a big fan of Greaves so it's something I remember pretty well. Great pity because he was one of the best around - but then so is Shearer.
The reason Greaves didnt play in the final was because he was injured. And he wasnt declared fit for the final. Just accept it.

[Bizzo]

The reason Greaves didnt play in the final was because he was injured. And he wasnt declared fit for the final. Just accept it.

From the English Football Archive (http://www.the-english-football-archive.com/england/world_cup/1966.htm)
"The England manager Alf Ramsey caused a sensation before kick-off, by leaving out star striker Jimmy Greaves, despite his return from injury, instead he kept together the winning combination up front of Hurst and Liverpool’s Roger Hunt, Greaves was distraught."
I have seen Greaves quoted many times as saying that he was fit for the final & not playing was the biggest disappointment of his career.

[Bizzo]

Jimmy Armfield looks back at '66 on givemefootball.com (http://www.givemefootball.com/display.cfm?article=4128&type=1)

"'Bobby Charlton scored twice and Eusebio replied with a penalty, but it was Bob's night. It was a formidable side and we all knew that Alf would not be making changes for the final, even though Jimmy Greaves was now fit again. The time for experiments had gone. Hurst had come in and done well and Alf was unlikely to gamble on a player who had missed the previous two games. I felt for Jim. During the countdown to 30 July, there was speculation that Alf might recall him but I suspect Jim knew he wouldn't be playing. It hit him hard.'

[Andy Bennett]

The reason Greaves didnt play in the final was because he was injured. And he wasnt declared fit for the final. Just accept it.
The difference is, I suspect, that I am using my memory of what was actually said at the time by the interested parties. rather than referring to internet boards and other peoples sometimes selective memory.

To be fair, I've been checking some of the web-sites that talk about this issue and a few do seem to be somewhat confused.

As sendorange has said, there was a question that he could play but he was just coming back from an injury do may not have been 100% but, frankly, I don't think Ramsey would have started him anyway. Don't forget, we're not talking about the days of MRI scans so diagnosing an injury was more 'seat of the pants' than it is today.

[musicl]

I stand corrected.

[Catfish]

Where is Glen Hoddle?

Was Hoddle THAT good? I knew he is a legend for THFC, but didn't know he was a stud for England.

[Matt Clark]

Depends on your standpoint. He was an excellent player, in terms of skill possibly the best Englishman of his generation. A Spurs fan will tell you that successive managers didn't know how to get the best out of him. They will back it up with evidence like John Barnes' equally mysterious disparity in performance when wearing the red of Liverpool or the white of England.

Anyone else will tell you that Hoddle was just lazy.

[BenReilly]

The real shock there, as far as I'm concerned, is Beckham instead of Stan Matthews.

Stanley Matthews has to be on the all time XI. I'd also find a slot for Dixie Dean.

"All-time" lists always have a ridiculous bias towards recent history. If we're doing an all-time list, shouldn't we include players as far back as the 19th century?

[erictheking]

[QUOTE=Andy Bennett]Really? That's most interesting. And you're sure of that, are you?QUOTE]

One of my friends went to a sports dinner where Jimmy Greaves was the guest speaker. We went up to get a autograph and thought he'd ask a poiginat question "Hello James, why didn't you play in the world cup final" to which Jimmy replied "Everyone knows I was injured".

[Matt Clark]

One of my friends went to a sports dinner where Jimmy Greaves was the guest speaker. We went up to get a autograph and thought he'd ask a poiginat question "Hello James, why didn't you play in the world cup final" to which Jimmy replied "Everyone knows I was injured".

And you were expecting ... what, exactly?

"Well me old mucker, I woz right back app for it, I was fit as butcher's, mate, but Sir Alf, well - 'e thort I was a raging alkee, see, an' 'e was rite pissed off wiv all the boozin' an' that, I was a right mess to be honest wiv ya Guv, it was a shaaaambles of a time, to be fair. So 'e dropped me and right 'e was abaat i' too, it was a bleedin' World Cap Final, after all!!"

[Andy Bennett]

Stanley Matthews has to be on the all time XI. I'd also find a slot for Dixie Dean.

"All-time" lists always have a ridiculous bias towards recent history.
Agreed.

I remember a few years ago, (I'm getting to the age where time all tends to blur into one - there's 'now' and 'before now'), there was a poll as to the most influential pop artist. At about number 4 or 5 there was.......

New kids on the block :)

That was 'before now' so it may have been some time ago.