French Guiana/Martinique/Guadeloupe

[Michael-A-UK]

I was wondering, are these countries FIFA members? It's just that they are listed in the referees lists at fifa.com but not in the national associations.

[Davids26]

They are members of CONCACAF, but technically not members of FIFA. That is why you see Martinique in the Gold Cup, but never hear from them during WC Qualifying.

I think that these three places are technically considered a part of France, so if the French felt like a player from there was good enough he would be elgible for France.

David Regis, US International, and longtime French citizen was born in Martinique.

[gohb]

They are members of CONCACAF, but technically not members of FIFA. That is why you see Martinique in the Gold Cup, but never hear from them during WC Qualifying.

And don't forget St. Martin and Sint Maarten, the French and Dutch portions of the same island, also members of CONCACAF but not FIFA.

[Shah]

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadeloupe are not just "technically" part of France. They are overseas departments with the same political status as as any department on the French mainland. These three departments (along with Reunion in the Indian Ocean) are what Hawaii or Alaska is to the USA. As such it would be impossible for them to be FIFA members.

[Michael-A-UK]

Yes that may be, but this doesn't always mean they can't have full FIFA membership. Take for example the Faroe Islands which are technically part of Denmark and quite a number of Caribbean islands which are overseas colonies of the UK and Holland (British Virginn Islands, Bermuda, Aruba etc) who all have full membership.

[beachesl]

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadeloupe are not just "technically" part of France. They are overseas departments with the same political status as as any department on the French mainland. These three departments (along with Reunion in the Indian Ocean) are what Hawaii or Alaska is to the USA. As such it would be impossible for them to be FIFA members.

Well, not impossible, the same would apply to Scotland, N Ireland and Wales. Or to places like the Turks and Caicos, Montserrat, Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands, full British Colonies and full FIFA members. Gibraltar could be a member of FIFA, but the British government have quietly let FIFA know that they don't approve because they don't want to exacerbate things with Spain. The reason is that FIFA would not agree to membership without the approval of the overall sovereign state. They have expressly stated as much in the case of Catalonia. The French Government has refused to grant permission to FIFA to allow the Football Associations in their Carribean "departments" to join, pure and simple (members of the Maritnique team delegation passed this information on openly to people attending their matches). France has granted permission to Tahiti and New Caledonia, which I believe are distingushed by the appellation "overseas territory" but not significantly different from the French Carribean terrtory. It is the reason why the regional autonomous government's applications to FIFA in Catalonia and the Basque territories have been refused, the Spanish governement has publically stated that they are against this (so, the applications were dead letters). If the United States, which continues to have Sovereignty over Puerto Rico, the American Virgin Islands, Guam and American Samoa, said "no" to FIFA particiaption, FIFA would pull their memberships. In the same light, if the US State department said okay to an application by Hawaii, hypothetically, then FIFA would agree (Hawaii has far more autonomy than Wales, for instance).

France does not see participation by their Carribean territories in CONCACAF matches as threatening to either it's general hold over the territories or to it's National team, which can continue to use players from these areas under FIFA and UEFA competitions even if they have played for their local teams in CONCACAF competitions.

I am making no commentary on the validity of the "department" status or the political, legal or social situation in the French Carribean. Indeed, all indications are that the majority of the people there are happy with the current status, especially with the benefits being members of the European Comunity brings.

To try to simplify the situation with a single "legal" answer would not be appropriate, because the real reasons are more complicated. The best answer is: politics...but, it is not the complete answer.

[Quaker]

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadeloupe are not just "technically" part of France. They are overseas departments with the same political status as as any department on the French mainland.

Let's not forget that the French have drawn some amazing talent from these small Caribbean islands: Thuram (Guadeloupe), Henry (Guadeloupe), Wiltord (Martinique), Anelka (Martinique).

Not in CONCACAF, but Christian Karembeu (New Caledonia) was actually the Oceania Football Confederation Player of the Year in 1995 before winning the World Cup with France. New Caledonia is now a FIFA member and just competed for the first time in World Cup qualifying.

[Shah]

France has granted permission to Tahiti and New Caledonia, which I believe are distingushed by the appellation "overseas territory" but not significantly different from the French Carribean terrtory.

Oh yes, they are significantly different. Overseas territories (TOM's) are far less integrated than departments (DOM's). The people of these territories are still French Citizens, but they are run more like commonwealth. As for the rest of your post, I agree that the situation is more complex than what I stated. What I should have said that given France's centralizing nature and strong ties to its overseas departments, it is politically an impossibility.

[Shah]

Let's not forget that the French have drawn some amazing talent from these small Caribbean islands: Thuram (Guadeloupe), Henry (Guadeloupe), Wiltord (Martinique), Anelka (Martinique).

Not in CONCACAF, but Christian Karembeu (New Caledonia) was actually the Oceania Football Confederation Player of the Year in 1995 before winning the World Cup with France. New Caledonia is now a FIFA member and just competed for the first time in World Cup qualifying.

Anelka, Henry, and Willtord are all French born. None of them has lived in Guadeloupe or Martinique even though their origins are there. Thuram was born in Guadeloupe but spent most of his formative years on the French mainland.

The Karembu thing is trickier. French policy in New Caledonia has been discriminatory. This is partially due to bigotry native french "caldoche" population. These are a people descended from prisoners. Caldoche culture is very much like that of Afrikaners or Outback Australians and they have some real insular views on ethnic relations. The French Special Forces have been involved in raids on Kanak seperatists that have resulted in deaths. The political violence in New Caledonia is one reason why Karembu refuses to sing the french national anthem. Chances are after 2013 when the Noumea Accords come up for renegotiation, New Caledonia will choose indendance. But with Caldoches making up a third of the population, and another group of mainland french people living there, it will be interesting to see what the 40% white population of the Island does.

[beachesl]

Thanks for the interesting info on New Caledonia, did not know that. Goona have to read up on that.

[Speedball]

Which confederation does Saint-Pierre and Miquelon belong to?

[ZeekLTK]

Let's not forget that the French have drawn some amazing talent from these small Caribbean islands: Thuram (Guadeloupe), Henry (Guadeloupe), Wiltord (Martinique), Anelka (Martinique).

Not in CONCACAF, but Christian Karembeu (New Caledonia) was actually the Oceania Football Confederation Player of the Year in 1995 before winning the World Cup with France. New Caledonia is now a FIFA member and just competed for the first time in World Cup qualifying.

Actually New Caledonia has not competed in World Cup Qualifying yet. They were not a FIFA member during their matches, so technically they were only playing for the Oceania Nation's Cup. They were admitted into FIFA after they had already been eliminated, so they haven't played a match yet as a FIFA member.

[Quaker]

Actually New Caledonia has not competed in World Cup Qualifying yet. They were not a FIFA member during their matches, so technically they were only playing for the Oceania Nation's Cup. They were admitted into FIFA after they had already been eliminated, so they haven't played a match yet as a FIFA member.

Well, if you wanna be technically correct. Okay, good catch--I stand corrected. New Caledonia joined FIFA on May 20, 2004 but wasn't a member yet when they competed in the first round of the Oceania Nations Cup the week before.

[Scotty]

Let's not forget that the French have drawn some amazing talent from these small Caribbean islands: ...Henry (Guadeloupe)

Henry actually has French Caribbean background from both parents. His father is from Guadeloupe and his mother's family was from Martinique.

[JG]

Which confederation does Saint-Pierre and Miquelon belong to?

I don't think they're a member of any confederation.