Something to really make you go arrrgghh

[Invincible Gooners]

Guys im new to this and so if i do somethign that is not the correct ettiquette then i apologise in advance.

I was reading some of the polls in the first section of the forum and the one that stood out was best team ever...

If you scroll to the last one iin which a statement was made today you will see a well constructed evaluation of the merits of winning titles in Europe...

I was quietly impressed..its here for you to see..

Today, 04:43 PM #32
Excape Goat
BigSoccer Addict

Join Date: Mar 1999
Team: R.Madrid, DCU, AC
Posts: 6,555 Re: The best team ... ever

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The poll should be Boca Juniors, Ajax, Liverpool, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich.

Boca Juniors
5 Copa Libertadores(tied for 2)
3 Intercontinental Club Cup(tied for 1st)
2nd all-time domestic league titles.
Note: Penrol also won the same numbers of Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental Club Cup.

Ajax:
4 European Cup
1 UEFA Cup
1 Cup Winners' Cup
2 Intercontinental Club Cup
# 5(tied) all-time European titles.
#1 all-time domestic league titles.

AC Milan:
6 European Cup
2 Cup Winners' Cup
3 Intercontinental Club Cup(tied for #1)
# 2 all-time European titles.
#2 all-time domestic league titles.

Real Madrid:
9 European Cup
2 UEFA Cup
3 Intercontinental Club Cup(tied for #1)
# 1 all-time European titles.
#1 all-time domestic league titles.

Bayern Munich:
4 European Cup
1 UEFA Cup
1 Cup Winners' Cup
2 Intercontinental Club Cup
# 5(tied) all-time European titles
#1 all-time domestic league titles.

Liverpool:
4 European Cup
3 UEFA Cup
#4 all-time European titles
#1 all-time domestic league titles.

Sorry other teams mentioned here, but not considered in my opinion. Juventus in my opinion is the only team who could be in the poll. They are not considered because they did not do very well in European Cup. Arsenal

Inter Milan:
2 European Cup
3 UEFA Cup
2 Intercontinental Club Cup
# 8 all-time European titles.
#3 all-time domestic league titles.

Juventus
2 European Cup
3 UEFA Cup
1 Cup Winners' Cup
2 Intercontinental Club Cup
# 5(tied) all-time European titles.
#1 all-time domestic league titles.

Manchester Utd
2 European Cup
1 Cup Winners' Cup
1 Intercontinental Club Cup
#10(tied with Porto) all-time European titles
2nd all-time domestic league titles.

Arsenal
1 UEFA Cup
1 Cup Winners' Cup
#21(tied with Chelsea, Dinamo Kiev, Real Zaragoza) all-time European titles or the 4th most successful English clubs after Hotspur, Liverpool and Manchester Utd.
#3 all-time domestic league titles.


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FC Barcelona deserved a mention. They won 8 trophies in Europe. Only Real Madrid won more. They are one of four European teams who had won all three major European trophies.
1 European Cup
3 UEFA Cup
4 Cup Winners' Cup
#2(tied) all-time European Titles.
#2 all-time domestic league titles.


HOWEVER IF YOU READ THE BOTTOM PART THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED AND MADE ITALIC BY MYSELF YOU WILL SEE SOMETHING THAT MAY MAKE YOUR SKIN CRAWL....

SEE IF YOU CAN SPOT IT.... I GAVE YOU A CLUE...... :eek:

is it so........?

[mad theory]

Its all true, but Arsenal have only been a great club for a couple of seasons now.

Don't worry we will slowly gradually climb all those tables..;)

And btw the European cup back then was much easier competition than it is now.

At the time these clubs won the old EC no-one really gave a ********, but now winning the CL is such a big achievement, they all bring back arguements on how they have won European title..

Lets see them try and win it now...

[Achtung]

Why does any of that matter? If you love Arsenal, who cares about what has been accomplished by everyone else? Your team is playing for tomorrow, not yesterday. Read my sig for some advice regarding that.

BTW Mad Theory, I wouldn't say the competition was easier back in the day. Sure there were fewer teams involved, but everything was home and away knockout-style back then, and there were more matches played in out of the way, often hostile stadiums with few facilities against small teams that the big guns often knew almost nothing about.

[Martin Daoust]

Why does any of that matter? If you love Arsenal, who cares about what has been accomplished by everyone else? Your team is playing for tomorrow, not yesterday. Read my sig for some advice regarding that.

BTW Mad Theory, I wouldn't say the competition was easier back in the day. Sure there were fewer teams involved, but everything was home and away knockout-style back then, and there were more matches played in out of the way, often hostile stadiums with few facilities against small teams that the big guns often knew almost nothing about.

Think it cuts both ways.The knock-out format throughout was unpredictable in later rounds certainly but generally a free pass through for the top teams against the minnows even if the trips were unpleasant. In the Champions League today the additional second to fourth place sides from the top domestic leagues and the group format create more room for error and miscalculation. It is like Arsenal in any group it is placed will play a third-placed side from a top league - a ManU or Real Madrid and two other teams, with one likely a League champion, so I wopuldn't say the old European Cup or today's Champions League are tougher than the other...

[Its only Ray Parlour]

Spur's have won one more European trophy than Arsenal, not sure if it was a UEFA Cup or Cup winner's cup or Super Cup though. As you know they pale into comparison under every-other criteria! Big Club?...pah! ;)

[Intermission]

We're the third most successfull English team of all time in terms of trophies won. 13 + 9 + 2 + 2 = 26 trophies.

Spurs have less than Villa!

[VaVaVoom]

I agree with the previous posters in that the CL has become a better measure of quality than it was when it had only domestic champs and was pure knockout. I also agree with the fact that looking backward is somewhat useless (usually done by the teams that were not successful in the current campaign).

However, if you are going to start listing club honours, it's usually common to put all the one-game trophies (i.e., Charity Shield, European Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup, etc.) in a separate category that is significantly discounted from the other proper competitions.