Vergara/Chivas - Home nation players ONLY?

[DCUnited*Fan]

I am not sure this has been discussed, but this seems really odd to me...

Vergara has made his teams SUPER popular by relying ONLY on players from their home country...

Team - Country - Player Nationalities
Chivas - Mexico - Only Mexicans
Saprissa - Costa Rica - Only Ticos
ChivasUSA - USA - Only Mexicans and Amis w/ mexican heritage?????


Makes no sense!


I would really respect him if he came here with his brand and vision and said,

"NO internationals on my MLS team! Only Americans!"

That would be a team worth following. I know he is trying to capitalize on the Mexican fans of Chivas in the US, and this would blow that plan, but don't you think this would be much more worth while?

I think a team like that would have far more pride, intensity and be one of the most popular teams in MLS. I think it would even get some interesting press.

Thoughts?

[kpaulson]

Thoughts?

My thought is that your post is pretty transparent and you know why it won't work.

[WHOLMAN2]

My thought is that your post is pretty transparent and you know why it won't work.

It will work. With the right lawyer, anything is possible.

[Przybylinski]

My thoughts are that we should allow at least one or two more foreign players per team, but personally I'd prefer them to come from European clubs. I don't think they will allow Chivas to run an all Mexican team in the US unless they are Mexican Americans. The downside for a club like that will be that most people will hate them and want to see them fail. I guess I can't speak to say most people, but I certainly will be routing against them and my home games already has 50-60% Mexican Fans at them. The horns need to go and the booths outside the HDC need to have some English speaking people. It's all Mexican Radio and Food along with the US Army recruiting them.

[kpaulson]

It will work. With the right lawyer, anything is possible.
It's not about the lawyers-- discrimination in favor of American citizens is perfectly legal. The poster's feigned confusion notwithstanding, I think we all know why a team full of American citizens isn't quite the same draw as a team full of Mexicans or Costa Ricans...

[billward]

It's not about the lawyers-- discrimination in favor of American citizens is perfectly legal. The poster's feigned confusion notwithstanding, I think we all know why a team full of American citizens isn't quite the same draw as a team full of Mexicans or Costa Ricans...
True, you can't discriminate against US citizens in employment, except for one thing - green card holders are also in that category, which is why MLS doesn't categorize them as SI's. Discriminating against green card holders is also illegal.

But I think Vergara is hoping to fill the squad's regular roster slots with US citizens and green card holders of Mexican origin/descent, and that I think is illegal discrimination against American citizens who are not Mexican.

[Treetaliano]

how about the discrimination against white guys and black guys who arent gonna have a chance to play in MLS because of this ********?

******** Chivas

over/under on uclacarlos coming in here and justifying ChivasUSA: 7 posts

[kenntomasch]

You should get one of these from the ThreeSixOne store:

http://www.kenn.com/images/irrational_chivas.gif

[kpaulson]

True, you can't discriminate against US citizens in employment, except for one thing - green card holders are also in that category, which is why MLS doesn't categorize them as SI's. Discriminating against green card holders is also illegal.

But I think Vergara is hoping to fill the squad's regular roster slots with US citizens and green card holders of Mexican origin/descent, and that I think is illegal discrimination against American citizens who are not Mexican.

Bill, you're absolutely right about green cards, but again, the problem with the original poster's idea is not its legality-- the problem is that it's a straw man. He's trying to say that Chivas USA is dumb because its purported player policy is not "consistent" with the player policy on Vergara's other teams. There are good reasons to be anti-Chivas, but I think this one ain't one of them.

Will Chivas USA ultimately illegally discriminate? Well, I think we're going to wait to see how they go about creating a team with Mexican character (although I think Vergara/Sisniega's ill-conceived comments early in the process will provide more than enough fuel for litigation, rightly or wrongly).

[DCUnited*Fan]

Bill, you're absolutely right about green cards, but again, the problem with the original poster's idea is not its legality-- the problem is that it's a straw man. He's trying to say that Chivas USA is dumb because its purported player policy is not "consistent" with the player policy on Vergara's other teams. There are good reasons to be anti-Chivas, but I think this one ain't one of them.

Will Chivas USA ultimately illegally discriminate? Well, I think we're going to wait to see how they go about creating a team with Mexican character (although I think Vergara/Sisniega's ill-conceived comments early in the process will provide more than enough fuel for litigation, rightly or wrongly).


OK. I am not trying to make the argument that Chivas USA is dumb. No argument - no straw man.

I really wanted to hear what people thought about whether he will be sucessful by bucking the trend he used in making his other teams so popular.

I don't think it will do as well, however, I do think it will be fun and entertaining. I am all for him bringing his team into the league.

I then got to thinking that a team with NO foreigners might actually be a really successful idea. Now, I'm thinking that it would be satisfyingly ironic if some other owner investor became wildly successful with a team that did not use any of thier SI slots or any other foreigner slots. Just citizens and green-carders, preferably only those who are eligible for US Nat duty.

[uclacarlos]

over/under on uclacarlos coming in here and justifying ChivasUSA: 7 posts
Geez, I even leave town for a week, and you're still way off... :rolleyes:
how about the discrimination against white guys and black guys who arent gonna have a chance to play in MLS because of this ********?
It's great being on your ignore list b/c I keep getting to make a fool out of you.

Only 10% of African slaves went to the US and Canada. The African descendent population in Spanish-speaking Lat. Am. DWARFS that of the US. In essence, there are MORE opportunities for blacks w/ the coming of Chivas USA.

Immigrants go to ALL of the Americas, including Latin America. The largest congregation of Japanese outside of Japan resides in Sao Paolo, Brazil. [I believe (but I'm not sure) that the Japanese residents of SP would place that city in the top 5 cities in Japan, kind of like LA is the 2nd largest metropolitan area of Mexicans in the world, ahead of Guadalajara, Monterrey, Tijuana, Cancun, etc.] Peru has had a Japanese president and Peruvians expect a Japanese influence when they eat out in restaurants both here in the states and in Peru. I'm told that most Cuban restaurants in NYC are run by Chinese Cubans.

The point is: there are Asian-Latinos, Afro-Latinos, Middle-Eastern Latinos (Shakira is 1/2 Lebanese!!), white Latinos.

Now, back to the initial point of the thread:

Costa Rica and Mexico did not gain 1/3 of their territory from a foreign power after a war. The Spanish/Mexican heritage of the South West USA can be seen in, uh, the CITIES and the STATES' names: Colorado, Arizona (=arid zone), New Mexico, San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Antonio, El Paso. Need I go on?

B4 somebody goes into "Wull, the ethnic teams in Australia have failed miserably"..., once again, Australia did not gain 1/3 of its territory from a former colony of rival European power that actively embraced a dual sided propaganda war (in short bus terms: England and Spain traded barbs and attempted to discredit the rival country's power from the 14th century on).

Just like no 2 US soccer markets are alike, neither is the US comparable to any other ethnic soccer market in the world. Whereas I think that the "Tico-only" policy in CR is worthy, it is less so in Mexico, but it's not an entire flop. (Chivas Guadalajara is making a strong run for the clausura title.) What is attractive about Chivas USA is that the organization will actively promote soccer development in the inner-city/barrios of this country, which is something that US Soccer has stated is their goal, albeit a tremendously complicated endeavor. What this will do (we all should hope) is to deepen the USMNT player pool by developing more Latinos. This is a good thing.

Is it a potentially divisive project? It might be, it might not. Will they tap into that social-class/political division rivalry tradition known by footie fans the world over, I believe they will try to do that. Is that good? Financially, for a league in the red making significant baby steps towards eventual profitability, yes, but maybe no. Nobody knows.

But it is nice to see a team unite a city across socio-economic, political and ethnic classes, like the LA Lakers or the Boston Red Sox or any other team that does this in this country.

But footie loving Ethnic America is unfamiliar w/ footie in large metropols having only ONE representative. It rings hollow for them, or at least it does for me.

[billward]

And to anyone who thinks that Chivas won't have any non-Mexican fans, remember who they're (probably) sharing a city with: the Gals. So the rest of MLS fans already have a good reason to cheer for Chivas!

[kpaulson]

OK. I am not trying to make the argument that Chivas USA is dumb. No argument - no straw man.

Hmm- you did say it "makes no sense!" And frankly, it's beyond me how anyone without a point to prove could seriously compare using an all-Mexican team in Guadalajara, where Mexicans actually like soccer, to using an all-American team in the US, where Americans actually don't care about soccer.

But in the spirit of answering your question, even if I'm not sure it's been posed honestly: I don't think anyone would care about an MLS team with only Americans. And the team would probably suck. MLS has gone a long way to finally developing creative attacking American players, but we still rely on foreign players for many of those positions.

[Various Styles]

Saprissa has been doing good as an all tico squad. They dominated the Costa Rican league last season undefeated i believe and won the league cup and this season they are in the semis of the TFC CC.. Chivas has also been doing good they are in the MFL semis.. That said i would prefer Chivas USA as an all american squad, no foreigners with many players comming from the inner city and the yearly open try outs.. I want a true peoples team..

Aguante Chivas USA :) :)

[PZ]

A Yanks only team was already tried...Team America didn't do too well in the NASL.

[Americano e Orgulho]

A Yanks only team was already tried...Team America didn't do too well in the NASL.

What didn't work +/- 20 years ago can't work today? So, the american player hasn't improved? Of course, there is the problem with the salary cap so "Team America version2005" couldn't stack the team with Eddie Gavens or Bobby Conveys.

[kenntomasch]

The St.Louis Stars of the old NASL were predominantly American (and predominantly St.Louisan as well).

Seriously, I know the Metros have a bunch of foreign guys, but what's the league-wide percentage like? ChrisE?

[Freddy Garcia Lives]

If lots of fans hate Chivas, great, it's good for the league. If Chivas puts out a mostly Mexican-American team and people don't like that, its good for the league. Why? Because people do come out to cheer against an away team they hate and not just to cheer for the home team. Happens with the Yankee, Lakers, and Cowboys. I don't see Galaxy fans missing a derby and letting Chivas fans have that ticket if they truely hate Chivas. If the Crew (I pick them since it has to be one of the smaller latino markets in MLS) fans hate Chivas they'll probably come out and let Chivas know it. Puts butts in the seats and sells concessions. As long as fights don't break out and confirm every misplaced idea Jim Rome has about soccer, it's good for the league. Personally I also believe that many Mexican fans will have more reason to cheer for a MLS team IF Chivas galvanizes people the way some predict. Remember that plenty of folks in Mexico hate Chivas too.

Will all that happen, maybe, or maybe they come into the league and make a small splash in a big ocean, I don't know. But if it is the latter I doubt they will keep a fan following over the long haul.

[kpaulson]

What didn't work +/- 20 years ago can't work today? So, the american player hasn't improved? Of course, there is the problem with the salary cap so "Team America version2005" couldn't stack the team with Eddie Gavens or Bobby Conveys.

As I understand, the problem with Team America wasn't just that the players weren't good enough-- the problem was that nobody cared. That problem would still be the same. Furthermore, it's just not that different from your average MLS team-- I think the Crew trotted out an all-American team last week-- did anyone notice? The average American fans already have 10 teams-- and they're not particularly well-supported. Jeez, when even the national team has trouble drawing on a Wednesday, how would an MLS-level national team do?

[needsashower]

Will Daniel Hernandez be an allocation or a discovery player?