View Full Version : A thought on what's wrong. Well one thing.
MeridianFC
24 May 2004, 05:18 PM
This has been rolling around in my head for a few days. I think we dicussed it last year too and to be fair it's a bit simplistic, but I'd be curious to hear what others think.
Something I noticed in the first couple of games, results good and bad aside, was how fast and direct we were playing. It seems like the ball was moved up field at great pace. And we counter attacked. The movement, while not perfect, was more incisive. There's still not as much playing the ball into spaces behind the defense as I would like* and our finishing/shooting has been pretty pathetic, but it seems like over the past few games we've really slowed up and have gone back to a bit of the old DC, pass the ball across the back for a few minutes then, saunter up the left or right side and then, well and then nothing. Certainly most teams in most games will have to do a bit of this.
Injury has played it's part. Team speed up the field relies on some understanding and experience between team mates. Josh Gros, all by his lonesome, has been doing a masterful job and maruading up the wing or trying to cut into the center, so it is there. Even Cerritos' goal was a haul ass up the field and go for the gut and take a shot (murder a shot) as soon as it presents itself. Overall though, it seems like the ball is moved around to no great purpose and then the usual routine is for us to get countered (and scored) on.
As the old saw goes, speed kills. I don't have the figure and to be honest I'm not a big one on stats as relates to soccer, but IIRC most goals are scored with a minimal amount of possesion (in the particular play) and few touches.
Now I know I'm an idiot, but am I completely out of my tree?
*If Freddy was ever going to shine it should be here like he almost did against COL.
TEConnor
24 May 2004, 05:34 PM
Aaahhh, the footnote killed me. I was getting it, then you got all academic on us.
I think the team realized that they were playing far too much around the horn late in the LA game, and as a sad reaction decided late in the CO game to boot and hope. I'd like to see a happy medium, akin to our first games of the season.
Tim
BroonAleMagpie
24 May 2004, 05:37 PM
...it seems like over the past few games we've really slowed up and have gone back to a bit of the old DC, pass the ball across the back for a few minutes then, saunter up the left or right side and then, well and then nothing.
Heh, you noticed that, too, eh? Yeah, it's been getting more frequent, and it has to stop. The times we're dangerous are the times we're swarming all around the penalty ox, moving the ball *quickly* from the corners to the center or from one side of the field to the other, taking shots from distance or suddenly scooting the ball to someone making a run into open space behind the defenders or to someone in the center deep in the box who's open because defenders have been drawn off by flank threats. When we slow play down, and *particularly* when our attacking players SLOW DOWN on breakaways, we give the game back to the other team. Now sometimes folks slow down to let the flank players come up, or to get someone else in the center to play off because there are too many defenders keying on them. But way too often it *appears* to be an unwillingness to take on a small number of defenders and score or set up a last minute run from deep. That speaks to me of lack of confidence, which will kill us. We need more goals like Jaime's alst one, or Freddy's against LA, to remind our players they *can* do that.
Barbara
24 May 2004, 05:44 PM
The times we're dangerous are the times we're swarming all around the penalty ox,
I've heard Meola called a lot of different names, but that's a new one.
I think MeridianFC is on to something. During the Colorado game I kept getting frustrated by all the lateral and backwards passes. It started to feel like last year's DC United.
Maybe the difference is Convey being out? I hope not, since he's not expected to last through the summer, but I fear that he plays a huge part in crispness, or lack thereof, in our midfield.
TCompton
24 May 2004, 06:39 PM
I noticed the slow down too. But I bet it's a result of a change of tacktics. It's similar to that of long distance runners... If you sprint the start, you'll be dead later. Which is precisely what happend those first few games. We looked damn good, but by the time the clock reached 65 minutes we were exhausted. It wasn't until the last 5 minutes that the adrinaline kicked in a gave us a little boost to finish matches.
Now, it just seems logical that Nowak would address this the quickest way he knows how... slow down the pace of the games and increase number of endurance and speed workouts at practice. This tactic also fits our current health level. Without adequate substitues (quantity, as oppose to quality) because of injuries, we can't afford to have our midfield get exhausted in the second half.
At least that's the way I see it.
owendylan
24 May 2004, 06:44 PM
I've heard Meola called a lot of different names, but that's a new one.
I think MeridianFC is on to something. During the Colorado game I kept getting frustrated by all the lateral and backwards passes. It started to feel like last year's DC United.
Maybe the difference is Convey being out? I hope not, since he's not expected to last through the summer, but I fear that he plays a huge part in crispness, or lack thereof, in our midfield.
I think Convey may be a big reason why. One of the things I think he has really developed is the ability to change the pace of play. Instead of always going full bore or slowing things down he seems to realise and others also do it when to push forward and when to slow down a little bit. There are definitely times in which we need to get the ball forward quickly and maybe some players aren't as quick to recognize those situations. It also could be that as a team we don't seem to transition quickly from defense to offense. We seem to develop a gap between the different lines and when that happens it's hard to play quickly when there is no support for the forwards you're playing the ball into.
rtiemens
24 May 2004, 07:32 PM
One thing I have noticed along these lines is throughout this season there is a tendency for our mids and forwards to receive a pass or throw-in or whatever, *and then just stand there*, trying, I guess, to stare down the defender, but it never works because while the DCU player is doing that, two or three more defenders come over, and then the DCU player loses the ball or has to back pass. I know there are many on these boards who know a lot more about soccer than I do, but it seems to me that a player should have a good idea what he is going to do/where he is going to dribble *before* he gets the ball. But it seems we have a habit of trying to decide what to do after receiving the ball. Even Jaime does this. Although in his case in days gone by he could explode out of the blocks and leave the defender in the dust. He cannot do that quite so easily now. I could be wrong, but this I think is a big reason so many or our attacks bog down.
Anyway, one thing that impresses me about English Premier League games (and yes, I well know that MLS is *not* yet EPL calibre) is that those players are always flying up and down the field with the ball for 90 minutes. *They do not stand around*. But I can't tell you the number of times over the past four years (it is a bit better,admittedly, this year) I have found myself screaming at the TV or at the game "MOVE!! PASS!! DRIBBLE!! DO **SOMETHING**!!!!" when DCU players do this thing of just standing, standing, standing there with the ball at their feet. And then, sure enough, three opposing players converge, and the other team is mounting a rush on our goal.
scruggs45
24 May 2004, 07:35 PM
it goes as far as the season tickets...if you own them you will notice that they feature convey, olsen, reyes, and adu....only adu is playing with the team right now, and hes a SUB...that tells you all you need to know...well the readers digest version at least
sch2383
24 May 2004, 07:53 PM
Losing Convey has not hurt us as much as losing Nellie and Olsen. This year in particular, I noticed Nelsen delvering well place, well timed long balls for people to run nto or put into play, something needed in a counter. Also having Olsen in there gives us a set of legs that never stop moving. Now losing one of the three isn't much of a problem since Gros can fill in well for Convey or Olsen, but the loss of all three really hurts. Another problem is having Moreno run our attack. Like I said before, he seems to be thinking far too much on the field and just taking too long to do what he normally would do. Maybe he isn't doing that and I am just used to the hyperactivity of Convey, I'm not sure. And I'm not blaming Moreno (or anybody) really, its just the cumlative effect of losing 3 key players at the same time.
Sundevil9
24 May 2004, 08:13 PM
Meridian is definately on to something. But I think it's more than the pace of the attack, I think the team's overall pace has slowed way down.
The first couple of games, United relentlessly pressured the ball from the instant that the bad guys (evil in some cases) got the ball. Now they're much more passive.
Funkfoot
24 May 2004, 09:06 PM
Yep, at the last game people were yelling "Shoot the ball!" just like last year.
Cweedchop
24 May 2004, 09:14 PM
Good stuff Meridian, and no, you're not crazy, it definitely has slown down..
I "blame" this on two key factors..
1) teams have simply adjusted to what we were doing earlier in the season.. In the begining, teams were playing us straight up and weren't defending in numbers and then they decided that since United is so anemic in finishing, what's the sense in playing them straight up when we can drop an extra player back into defense and then counter their slow back line to death.. It seems to be working..
2) Definitely the injuries to Olsen and Convey have curtailed our adventurous forrays.. The injury to Convey hurts the most in that he was our wildcard in that he moved all over the field and teams had a tough time tracking him and then players like Moreno, Olsen and Stewart would come out of nowhere.. We've definitely lost that edge to our game since he was hurt.. Additionally, I think Moreno comes back way too deep to get the ball and he doesn't move it thru quickly enough..
JayRockers!
24 May 2004, 09:32 PM
2) Definitely the injuries to Olsen and Convey have curtailed our adventurous forrays.. The injury to Convey hurts the most in that he was our wildcard in that he moved all over the field and teams had a tough time tracking him and then players like Moreno, Olsen and Stewart would come out of nowhere.. Do you think this team has adequately prepared for the loss of Convey, either for the short-term like now, or the long-term if he leaves in July/August? At the beginning of the season, some were criticizing him for being gone on USMNT duty. Clearly he was a large influence on the offense, like it or not. Now what? I've got no answers.
Thx,
Jay!
Sundevil9
24 May 2004, 10:00 PM
Do you think this team has adequately prepared for the loss of Convey, either for the short-term like now, or the long-term if he leaves in July/August? At the beginning of the season, some were criticizing him for being gone on USMNT duty. Clearly he was a large influence on the offense, like it or not. Now what? I've got no answers.
Thx,
Jay!
I think it's more than the loss of Convey. It's the combined loss of Convey, Olsen, and Nellie.
These three hold down the middle of the field (for the most part) and Carroll takes direction from them. As it stands now, the middle of the field is a gassed Moreno, Dema, and Petke.
Add that to some sub-par defensive performances. The team probably could have dealt with losing one or two of the 'big 3', but not the whole set.
nancyb
25 May 2004, 07:56 AM
I think someone posted here recently that you can't score a goal by only passing to your teammates. Yes, it's back to the days of people shouting "Shoot the ball!" while the team stands around passing, passing, passing.
MikeLastort2
25 May 2004, 08:00 AM
Far too slow the last two or three games. Colorado was especially frustrating to watch.
MattR
25 May 2004, 11:14 AM
I think we're onto something here. I'd just like to make a few points as well.
1) Echeverry. Last year we were a slow-moving team because when the ball got to the middle, someone would pass it to Echeverry, who would survey the field for a few minutes, then attempt to make the perfect pass.
2) Lack of finishing. Because our team has made a habit of launching chances over the goal, we've fallen into the habit of waiting for that perfect pass.
3) Anticipation. I think our replacement-laden midfield doesn't anticipate where someone is going to make a run, it has to look and see where everyone is going. Good soccer is knowing where everyone is going to be before the ball is played. Because of our injuries, substitutions, and general newness of players, nobody knows where anyone else is going to go without stopping and assessing. As stated, by that time it is too late.
With these problems, our game has slowed significantly, As mentioned, the loss of Convey and his attacking sprints with the ball, the loss of Benny's work ethic and hustle, and the loss of Nelly's anticipatory passes, there is too much stop and not enough go.
Unfortunately, the players we have now are going to need to learn to anticipate where their teammates are going, because two of the three missing are rumored not to reappear this year.
Sundevil9
25 May 2004, 11:22 AM
Surely, you can point to these problems in the last three games, without Convey, Olsen, and Nelsen.
But I think the lack of hustle and pressure has been creeping into the game. I don't remember the team having the fire against Columbus and KC like they did against SJ, or LA in the beginning of the season.
Cantankerous
25 May 2004, 11:43 AM
But I think the lack of hustle and pressure has been creeping into the game. I don't remember the team having the fire against Columbus and KC like they did against SJ, or LA in the beginning of the season.
I agree, but I wonder if that is a deliberate decision. It might be that the lower level of pressure is an attempt to stay fresher for longer. Remember that earlier in the season we hit the wall (predictably) at about the 70 minute mark.
DutchFootballRulez
25 May 2004, 12:22 PM
I think in the first 15 min. we need to simplify our attack. The possession passing is fine in the middle 60 minutes. But Gros/Stewart and our strikers need to be played through on early counters, stretch the other teams' Backline, force the keeper under early stress.
I don't like seeing Dema getting a goal in the 4th minute. We need more selfish forward play early in the game, get off early shots, test the keeper, if we spark dangerous counters (regardless of if they score or not) the other teams midfield has to become conservative to protect the backline, then we can dominate the middle 60 minutes and possibly get more goals through buildups, and twist the dagger in the heart.