Combing the Gold Cup and the Copa America.

[DANNO49]

The guys on the Big Soccer radio show "Soccer Latin America" had an intersing idea. Combine the Gold Cup and Copa America. Base the new tourney on the European Championship with qualifing matches going to a 16 team tourney. What do you think? I like it

[Sachin]

It's been discussed a million times here. But not recently. Just about every American poster is in favor of it. Most Mexican and South American posters don't really care.

Even with a combined CONCACAF and CONEMBOL playing a Copa PanAmerica, you really wouldn't get more than 10-12 quality teams. The top 8 South American teams, USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras.... that's about it.

Sachin

[jhawkinva]

Not that it's the same topic, but if they did combine, it would most certainly mean that the World Cup wouldn't be coming stateside again until at least 2022, with Brazil (likely) getting 2014 and 2018 is supposedly very likely to be in Europe (England is likely to make a big run at it).

But yes, I like the idea.

[SJJ]

Maybe the original poster would give some thoughts that the radio guys originally gave. See if there are any new ideas here. (I know that everything's been discussed a billion times here, but if there are any new thoughts, let's here them.)

I guess the big difference from now is that you would have qualifying. So you would kind of fall into that four-year cycle (similar to Europe) of (Y1) continental [in this case, hemispherical] qualifying, (Y2) continental championships, (Y3) World Cup qualifying, (Y4) World Cup.

Your teams stay sharp by having to go through the mixer every year. And from the fans' standpoint, it would be fun to see your team go through a continental qualifying group.

There are 44 teams in the combined "confederation." Host are in, so 43 teams for 15 spots. Play a first round home+home to get to 24. (All but five teams would play in this round.) Six groups of four; top two teams from each group qualify. Six third-place teams have a home+home playoff to get the final teams. (2 + 6 + 2 = 10 matchdays)

It would be cool to see the USA host this once in a while.

[MoRado]

This will be a grat idea!!!!!, the problem is that CONMEBOL doesn't like it....

[SJJ]

Is there are reason Conmebol would be against it? They don't want qualifying? It would infringe on the 18-game WCQ?

[StymieG]

Is there are reason Conmebol would be against it? They don't want qualifying? It would infringe on the 18-game WCQ?
Currently, the Copa is the 10 South American teams, + 2 guests, 1 of whom has always been Mexico. So why would the Conmebol teams and Mexico want to give up their automatic place and have to qualify for the combined tournament?

I'd like to see this happen (as a fan not from one of these 11 countries), but that's why it won't happen any time soon.

[El Cabrito]

Currently, the Copa is the 10 South American teams, + 2 guests, 1 of whom has always been Mexico. So why would the Conmebol teams and Mexico want to give up their automatic place and have to qualify for the combined tournament?

I'd like to see this happen (as a fan not from one of these 11 countries), but that's why it won't happen any time soon.

Actually the USA would probably become a permanent guest if they would simply start accepting the invitations.

[texgator]

It's been discussed a million times here. But not recently. Just about every American poster is in favor of it. Most Mexican and South American posters don't really care.

Even with a combined CONCACAF and CONEMBOL playing a Copa PanAmerica, you really wouldn't get more than 10-12 quality teams. The top 8 South American teams, USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras.... that's about it.

Sachin

Well, looking at UEFA 2004, you can say the same thing. Latvia is ranked 52nd in the FIFA rankings...right behind Honduras. Switzerland at 47th is ranked behind Ecuador and just ahead of Venezuala. Sure, top to bottom the 16 teams in the UEFA tournament are better, but it isn't like they don't have their share of mediocre teams. It might not be quite as good, but it would be damn close.

[Lithium858]

Sean Wheelock from Fox Sports World wrote an article about it on their website. I dunno if he said anything new or just repeated things said before...but here is the article. http://www.foxsportsworld.com/content/view?contentId=2475236

[SJJ]

WHEELOCK: "Give automatic entries to all 10 South American nations and to the top-four finishers from the previous round of CONCACAF World Cup Qualification. Then have two separate stages of qualification for the final two berths, one involving North and Central America, and the other for the Caribbean."

This is where Wheelock misses on the idea. *ALL* teams should go through some kind of qualification, so it doesn't become "Conmebol and the six other guys." I gave my qualification plan a few posts ago.

I thought I read previously where some Conmebol teams don't give it their full since there is no qualifying procedure for the Copa Am. Wheelock gives several examples of teams sending a side of scrubs to the tourney. A tournament where you have to scratch and claw to even get into would be a much more attractive event.

[tacos]

Man that would be a dream come true. A meaningful tournament to fill the off-WC years. Invited teams SUCK. Scrub teams SUCK. I don't see how CONMEBOL could complain when the Copa America has obviously lost a lot of prestige. CONCACAF certainly wouldn't object.

When it was just Mexico in the region, I can see why CONMEBOL wouldn't give a crap about adding CONCACAF. But now the US is a veritable soccer beast. With money. This really needs to happen.

[Iberian]

I think about this some of you have the wrong idea. This is what the deal is.
If Concacaf wants to play in Copa America with South Americans, these demand that they also play the WC qualifiers in the same fashion. Nobody in Concacaf, not even the US, is that crazy. If for such a setup they gave 7 spots in the WC (the 4 from the South and the 3 from the North), Concacaf teams would very likely never get to the WC, or maybe, maybe one of them, most likely Mexico or the US. Forget Central America, forget the Caribbean.
Such a result would cause a lot heads be cut in Concacaf. It would be a crazy an unprecedented failure.

You, as a Concacaf member, cannot seriously consider going to South America to play in an stadium in Uruguay, Paraguay, Peru, Colombia, Chile...don't even mention Brazil or Argentina. Concacaf teams would dissappear. Mexico and the US would have a slight chance, since they hold their own at home, but the rest would suffer a set back of generations.

The South Americans invite Mexico to the Copa America, but they do not like the intromission of Mexican teams in La Libertadores, buying a spot from the Venezuelian teams (half a mill. $). So the condition: You want Copa America, let's see all of you in the WC qualifiers. No, this Concacaf does not want, so stop complaining and whining to the South Americans. It will not happen because you do not want to be in the whole deal. You can't.

[Mr. Bandwagon]

I think it's a brilliant idea, just the way Wheelock stated it with all 10 Conmebol teams and 6 Concacaf teams. For Concacaf that could give you something like USA, MEX, Costa Rica, Honduras, a carribean team like Jamaica/T&T/Cuba/Haiti, and one of Canada/Guatemala/Panama/other. That would be respectable enough to provide decent competition and the inclusion of a 6-team field would help in the development of the region.

[Lithium858]

Does FIFA prohibit a tournament like that? I don't see why WC qualifying would have to go hand in hand with that.

[WHOLMAN2]

Does FIFA prohibit a tournament like that? I don't see why WC qualifying would have to go hand in hand with that.

It probably wouldn't. A combined federation championship sounds great, but combined WC qualifying would be disastrous for most western hemisphere teams north of Colombia.

The five of the combined eight spots would go to CONMEBOL teams, while 33 teams from CONCACAF would essentially be fighting for one spot. And Jack Warner would never go for that. ;)

[Rommul]

Does FIFA prohibit a tournament like that? I don't see why WC qualifying would have to go hand in hand with that.

It doesn't.

He was just foaming at the mouth.

[Dixie]

But if they do this:

"Give automatic entries to all 10 South American nations and to the top-four finishers from the previous round of CONCACAF World Cup Qualification. Then have two separate stages of qualification for the final two berths, one involving North and Central America, and the other for the Caribbean"

Which I don't think is too bad of an idea if it gets CONMEBOL on board I'm all for it, why would South America really be against it?

[ranul]

what about this idea there are 35 north american countries and 10 south american countries . We have 11 groups of 4 the winners of each group advance . The host country receives a bye . Based on the ranking here are the groups
host 1 Brazil
a 4 Mexico 65 Chile 120 St. Kitts and Nevis 179 British Virgin Islands
b 5 Argentina 72 Peru 128 St. Lucia 180 Belize
c 9 USA 77 Trinidad and Tobago 138 Grenada 181 Guyana
d 25 Paraguay 80 Cuba 154 Surinam 183 Cayman Islands
e 26 Costa Rica 87 Guatemala 161 Nicaragua 192 Bahamas
f 29 Uruguay 88 Haiti 162 Antigua and Barbuda 196 Aruba
g 37 Colombia 95 Canada 163 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 197 Anguilla
h 37 Ecuador 97 Bolivia 164 Bermuda 200 US Virgin Islands
i 50 Venezuela 104 El Salvador 168 Dominica 201 Puerto Rico
j 51 Jamaica 113 Barbados 171 Netherlands Antilles 202 Turks and Caicos Islands
k 55 Honduras 120 Panama 172 Dominican Republic 205 Montserrat

[Dixie]

what about this idea there are 35 north american countries and 10 south american countries . We have 11 groups of 4 the winners of each group advance . The host country receives a bye . Based on the ranking here are the groups
host 1 Brazil
a 4 Mexico 65 Chile 120 St. Kitts and Nevis 179 British Virgin Islands
b 5 Argentina 72 Peru 128 St. Lucia 180 Belize
c 9 USA 77 Trinidad and Tobago 138 Grenada 181 Guyana
d 25 Paraguay 80 Cuba 154 Surinam 183 Cayman Islands
e 26 Costa Rica 87 Guatemala 161 Nicaragua 192 Bahamas
f 29 Uruguay 88 Haiti 162 Antigua and Barbuda 196 Aruba
g 37 Colombia 95 Canada 163 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 197 Anguilla
h 37 Ecuador 97 Bolivia 164 Bermuda 200 US Virgin Islands
i 50 Venezuela 104 El Salvador 168 Dominica 201 Puerto Rico
j 51 Jamaica 113 Barbados 171 Netherlands Antilles 202 Turks and Caicos Islands
k 55 Honduras 120 Panama 172 Dominican Republic 205 Montserrat


But that's the problem. Argentina think they are above playing Belize