Philadelphia Expansion Thread, Part 2

[mattie g]

If yas wanna keep talkin', you can do it here...

[olujosh]

It's got that "new thread smell" and everything...

[dcajedi]

It's got that "new thread smell" and everything...

Smells better than the Spectrum parking lot, that's for sure.

[olujosh]

Has anyone every considered the possibility of tearing down the 'ole Spectrum (and putting a SSS there)? Granted, I know that it DOES still serve a purpose for concerts, Kixx, Phantoms, etc. -- just a thought...

I've never been to the Spec, so I don't know what kind of shape it's in...

thoughts?

[MiamiAce]

I'm relatively new to the prospect of Phila citizens enjoying the fruits of professional soccer.. could someone from Phila perhaps legitimize any say that soccer is played in large numbers in Phila... I haven't heard anything substantial, but I would love to hear something positive.

thanks ahead of time.

[Viking64]

UK soccer quoting Garber in Chicago

http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeId=2&ContentId=1632

"The other potential expansion team for 2005 could come from ...Seattle, Houston, Philadelphia...[snipped to avoid copywrite violation]."

It would not surprise me to see AEG buy the rights to a Philly team.

[olujosh]

Since I just moved to Philly, I can't really comment on the amount of soccer that is played here.

The important thing is that Philly is, well....Philly. it's one of the biggest cities in the country, the #5 (I think) media market in the country...

It's a no-brainer that MLS needs Philly. There are just certain markets in the USA that are essential to a professional sport to flourish, and Philly is one of them.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Atoms (as much I dislike that name) had VERY good attend. numbers, right? That's something to consider.

And hell, Philly is a great sports town period.

[mattie g]

And hell, Philly is a great sports town period.

Damn right it is.

As for how much soccer is played in and around Philly, I can assure you that there are plenty of soccer players and soccer fans in the area. I don't have any hard numbers, but in growing up in the area (South Jersey), pretty muych everyone I grew up around was involved in soccer in some way. This doesn't translate directly into fans, as we have seen elsewhere, but it's truly not a bad start.

[Bill Archer]

It would not surprise me to see AEG buy the rights to a Philly team.

Well it sure as hell would surprise everybody else.

AEG would very much like to curtail somewhat their MLS ownership, not expand it.

But the very mention brings up the Fatal Philly Weakness:

They need an investor. They aren't going to get a team without one. All this talk about what great sports town it is, all the little children out kicking balls on Satuday morning, all the ethnics, blah, blah, blah just won't ever make up for one guy with some dough stepping up to the plate.

And that guy ain't gonna be Phil Anschutz.

[D-Wall]

I'm relatively new to the prospect of Phila citizens enjoying the fruits of professional soccer.. could someone from Phila perhaps legitimize any say that soccer is played in large numbers in Phila... I haven't heard anything substantial, but I would love to hear something positive.

thanks ahead of time.

Soccer would do extremely well in Philly. Eastern PA is definitely a hotbed for youth soccer in the country. In PA we have the best youth club program in the country in FC Delco, and that has increased the level of play all around the Philly area in other club programs like FC Coppa and FC Bucks. South Jersey and Northern Delaware also have some very good programs, so I think that the fan base would come from those areas in and around Philly.

As for adult leagues, there are some highly organized leagues around the city and the suburbs that draw some good teams. Teams from Philly in the United League like UGH and VE have competed and won the National Open Cup championship the last few years. There are plenty of adult leagues around in the summertime and fall to play every night of the week.

The city has a very diverse population. South Philly is very Italian, while the Northeast is very Russian and Ukrianian. There are also large Polish population in South and Central Jersey. And somehow there are a ton of English and Irish who crowd the Dark Horse, Fado and Tir Na Nog on Saturday and Sunday mornings...so I think that you can cover that they would like to see some soccer played in Philly.

Another reason MLS would do well here, you have to look at the Man U games. Last years game sold out in 2 hrs, and this year Champions World decided to have 2 games in Philly because of the fan base and the stadium ( I know there are a lot of Linc haters out there, but the Man U players raved about the facility) It is great because the morons down at WIP (sports talk radio) can't understand how soccer draws so well here. And many of the fans came from the local region. So yes professional soccer would do very well here. I would go out on a limb and say that in a few years, Philly would have a rabid fan base like the Flyers have and be the envy of the league. And think of the instant rivalries with New York and DC. I can't wait.

Now if we could get some investors with some deep pockets in here to help out that would be great.

[Steve Holroyd]

I'm relatively new to the prospect of Phila citizens enjoying the fruits of professional soccer.. could someone from Phila perhaps legitimize any say that soccer is played in large numbers in Phila... I haven't heard anything substantial, but I would love to hear something positive.

thanks ahead of time.

Mattie--

Did you (or anyone) save the essay I did for Fred's site a few years back? It kind of answered all this guy's questions...and I have no interest in reinventing the wheel.

[dcajedi]

Well it sure as hell would surprise everybody else.

AEG would very much like to curtail somewhat their MLS ownership, not expand it.

But the very mention brings up the Fatal Philly Weakness:

They need an investor. They aren't going to get a team without one. All this talk about what great sports town it is, all the little children out kicking balls on Satuday morning, all the ethnics, blah, blah, blah just won't ever make up for one guy with some dough stepping up to the plate.

And that guy ain't gonna be Phil Anschutz.

It has already been established, I believe, that "that guy" is going to be Joe Banner, President of the Philadelphia Eagles. The setup would be similar to the one in New England, though one would hope that there's more commercial work done from the front office. Philly fans will literally buy any piece of clothing, memorabilia, whatever you can dream up that is associated with winning sports entities. Every sporting goods store in the city sold out of St. Joseph's basketball t-shirts in March, and Smarty Jones stuff is going at a similar pace.

[metrocorazon]

Soccer would do extremely well in Philly. Eastern PA is definitely a hotbed for youth soccer in the country. In PA we have the best youth club program in the country in FC Delco, and that has increased the level of play all around the Philly area in other club programs like FC Coppa and FC Bucks. South Jersey and Northern Delaware also have some very good programs, so I think that the fan base would come from those areas in and around Philly.

As for adult leagues, there are some highly organized leagues around the city and the suburbs that draw some good teams. Teams from Philly in the United League like UGH and VE have competed and won the National Open Cup championship the last few years. There are plenty of adult leagues around in the summertime and fall to play every night of the week.

The city has a very diverse population. South Philly is very Italian, while the Northeast is very Russian and Ukrianian. There are also large Polish population in South and Central Jersey. And somehow there are a ton of English and Irish who crowd the Dark Horse, Fado and Tir Na Nog on Saturday and Sunday mornings...so I think that you can cover that they would like to see some soccer played in Philly.

Another reason MLS would do well here, you have to look at the Man U games. Last years game sold out in 2 hrs, and this year Champions World decided to have 2 games in Philly because of the fan base and the stadium ( I know there are a lot of Linc haters out there, but the Man U players raved about the facility) It is great because the morons down at WIP (sports talk radio) can't understand how soccer draws so well here. And many of the fans came from the local region. So yes professional soccer would do very well here. I would go out on a limb and say that in a few years, Philly would have a rabid fan base like the Flyers have and be the envy of the league. And think of the instant rivalries with New York and DC. I can't wait.

Now if we could get some investors with some deep pockets in here to help out that would be great.
I think that alot of what you say could be taking into consideration but dont hold much weight. Just because there is a population of x imigrants and people crowd pubs to watch soccer doesnt translate into MLS support. I give you NYC and Northern NJ as an example. TON os people here who play, watch, and live soccer, yet the Metros have trouble getting 15K people to the stadium. People soldout Giants Stadium NUMEROUS times to see Man U, Roma, Milan, Juve, etc, but dont support MLS. Same could probably be said about Chicago and Boston.

So really the people you are talking about dont really count into the equation, so it really makes Philly no more a good candidate as say Oklahoma. TV Market on the other hand is bigger but that something that can only be explaited 50 years down the road. Who knows if MLS will be around by then.

It all boils down to just having a guy with MILLIONS rolling the dice, nothing more, nothing less. If he puts the team in any major city, he will have just about the same support. It really doesnt matter how many forigners and players you have in that city. And really every major city has enough people playing soccer. I mean unless you live in Alaska.

[Looper121]

Has anyone every considered the possibility of tearing down the 'ole Spectrum (and putting a SSS there)? Granted, I know that it DOES still serve a purpose for concerts, Kixx, Phantoms, etc. -- just a thought...

I've never been to the Spec, so I don't know what kind of shape it's in...

thoughts?

I went to the Spectrum awhile ago for a Phantoms game. Still in decent shape. I don't think Spectacor will tear that thing down for anything. that place has to be a cashcow for them. Hell you could throw in a SSS in the huge lot that is being created for parking.

[Looper121]

Oh, and Lurie and Banner could pull this off. meaning that they would just have to write the check. I mean come on they would be involved with a whole new team and a whole new league for what they are paying a couple Eagles this year. Why not. The rivalries with New York I think would boost attendance there and here. It is only a matter of time before someone anties up the dough.

[AndyMead]

It would not surprise me to see AEG buy the rights to a Philly team.

That's the same self-deluded fantasy that Seattle fans are convincing themselves of. Ain't gonna happen.

[dcajedi]

Much as it pains me to say so, that parking ain't goin' nowhere. One of the first things I learned about Philly when I got to Penn is that a lot of people don't want to get on the trains to go to the Sports Complex, and having I's 76 and 95 laid out the way they are don't help matters much.

[needsashower]

I doubt Lurie will ponie up since he's come out and said he doesn't care for the single entity. As has McNair down in Houston. As Allen did in Seattle. They use MLS to get their stadiums built and then reneg once they're built. I think expansion will be a hard sell until Harrison gets done and the Metro are profitable. And of course the Earthquakes move.

[AndyMead]

I doubt Lurie will ponie up since he's come out and said he doesn't care for the single entity. As has McNair down in Houston. As Allen did in Seattle. They use MLS to get their stadiums built and then reneg once they're built. I think expansion will be a hard sell until Harrison gets done and the Metro are profitable. And of course the Earthquakes move.

The problem that Lurie has is pretty much the same problem everyone else has. Where would the team play? Once NCAA/NFL football start up in late August, an MLS team would pretty much be relegated to Tuesdays. That's just not viable.

[mattie g]

Mattie--

Did you (or anyone) save the essay I did for Fred's site a few years back? It kind of answered all this guy's questions...and I have no interest in reinventing the wheel.

I remember what you're talking about, but unortunately I didn't save it. Perhaps Fred still has the stuff from the site saved somewhere...