Joe Cole a playmaker?

[qazwsx]

At the moment I see him as more of an attacking allrounder similar to Lampard. I'm curious to see whether Chelsea fans see him as a player that will have the vision, creativity, technical ability and range of passing to be a playmaker in the quality of a Beckham or Veron.

I tried to make a poll with 3 options but it didnt work. Options are:

1. No hes not that good and never will be (in a pure playmaking capacity only).
2. He's not yet, but will be given time.
3. He's allready Beckham and Veron's equal in a playmaking capacity

If a moderator can edit a poll in, it would be much appreciated.

[riverblue]

could be no. 2, he seems to have the potential, but if you look at other creative players his age (eg. Aimar) they seem to be far more advanced.
You'd think at his age he'd be realising his potential already...maybe more playing time is what he needs.

[cfc069]

Given time and a healthy run in the team. Joe Cole can become a superstar at Chelsea in the mould of Zola.

He has pace, vision, skill, he can cross a ball and has a vicious shot.

[qazwsx]

Given time and a healthy run in the team. Joe Cole can become a superstar at Chelsea in the mould of Zola.

He has pace, vision, skill, he can cross a ball and has a vicious shot.

So thats a vote for option number 2 then?

[bmw9983]

I definately vote 2. He started slowly, as can be expected. However - he really brought his game to a new level in the last half of the season. He was unlucky not to have 5 or 6 more goals, I specifically remember a rocket of a shot against Southampton that crashed off the bar.

Please don't loan him out this season - he's going to do the job IMO.

[qazwsx]

I definately vote 2. He started slowly, as can be expected. However - he really brought his game to a new level in the last half of the season. He was unlucky not to have 5 or 6 more goals, I specifically remember a rocket of a shot against Southampton that crashed off the bar.

Please don't loan him out this season - he's going to do the job IMO.

Keep in mind im talking about his ability to develops into a Beckham/Veron type of player (creative and skillful passing only) not a good allround player or one with good skill on the ball. If Joe Cole can become as good as Beckham in a purely creative passing way and keep developing his in close control/skill on the ball, he will be a better player than Zidane.

[BridgeMonkee]

Apples and oranges here. Joe Cole is great tenacious talent imho (and in the opinion of a lot of respected football coaches – Sven, Claudio, Arry Redknap, etc) but he’s a midfield player in the Zola sense, more than the Zidanne sense. Not really designed to be a “playmaker” . Oh, and how the hell is Veron a playmaker? :D don’t you have to (a) play and (b) make opportunities, to be a playmaker? Fing with Veron over the last 3 years is that he’s been awful. He’s now 29, so in what would have been and should have been the peak of his career, 26-29, he has been a huge disappointment.

Back to Joe Cole.
Comparison with Pablo Aimar, is an interesting and valid one. At 23, should Joe not be starting to play NOW like we all know (or think) he can? But then again, some players, come to greatness late in their careers, like Zola.

[Elder Statesman]

The problem is that English players usually don't make good playmakers. If you look at Scholes and Lampard they're good at scoring goals and have strong shots however, they're not great playmakers.

[cfc069]

So thats a vote for option number 2 then?

Yep No.2 Sorry

He must have something, otherwise Sven wouldn't have included him in the 23 man squad for the two friendlies against Iceland and Japan. Hopefully when Sven has to reduce the squad for the Euro 2004 Championships which begin in June, Cole will still be in it along with Lamps, Bridge, and Terry.

Desailly, Makelele and Gallas have made the French squad.

The inclusion of the above seven in their respective squads means that these players will probably not make the games in the USA, as Euro 2004 is not due to end until the middle of July.

Robben is in the Dutch squad and Cech is in the Czech Republic squad.

Of course any other major International signing that Chelsea make will probably not be included either.

[riverblue]

Re - comparisons with Aimar:

I really think that you can only live on promise for so long, he's really at an age where he should be fulfilling it a bit more, although i accept that his playing time has been very limited this season.

As for Veron, i think for this year at least, you're being harsh.
He was playing very well just before he got injured and it coincided with our best run of form. Things would have turned out differently for us this season if he had played week in, week out imo.

[qazwsx]

Apples and oranges here. Joe Cole is great tenacious talent imho (and in the opinion of a lot of respected football coaches ? Sven, Claudio, Arry Redknap, etc) but he?s a midfield player in the Zola sense, more than the Zidanne sense. Not really designed to be a ?playmaker? . Oh, and how the hell is Veron a playmaker? :D don?t you have to (a) play and (b) make opportunities, to be a playmaker? Fing with Veron over the last 3 years is that he?s been awful. He?s now 29, so in what would have been and should have been the peak of his career, 26-29, he has been a huge disappointment.


Veron is a playmaker, one of the best in the world on a purely creative visionary short or long range passing style. However its lack of strength on the ball, lack of pace, the inability to compromise the wonderful pass that he's allways going for, the inability to hold onto the ball while hes being challenged for it and he tendancy to panic when theres an opposition player about to challenge him for the ball, all of which bring him down as an allround player. But purely when it comes to making the match winning through ball, only Beckham (in my opinion) is better.

[Andy Bennett]

The problem with Joe Cole, up until recently, is that he spent too long at West Ham. He got used to the idea that it was OK to play entertaining football without any real result so, for instance, it was great to take on 3 people and beat them even if you then lost the ball to the fourth and the other team went down the other end and scored because you hadn't tracked back.

Under Ranieri he was having that knocked out of him. I only hope whoever we get as manager carries on in the same way.

[BridgeMonkee]

The problem with Joe Cole, up until recently, is that he spent too long at West Ham. .

Well, at the WHUFC football academy :D they did seem to be getting something right, developing players like Lampard, Ferdidnand, Johnson, DeFoe and Cole. According to Arry at the ammers Joe is the most talented and promising of the lot and that Joe Cole and Di Canio are the two most talented players he has ever worked with.

[Clan]

The problem with Joe Cole, up until recently, is that he spent too long at West Ham. He got used to the idea that it was OK to play entertaining football without any real result so

Fecking classic man.
:D :D

I've run of of rep to give for today - but i'll have to hit you up for that one later.

Pile it on him lads.

[Andy Bennett]

Fecking classic man.
:D :D

I've run of of rep to give for today - but i'll have to hit you up for that one later.

Pile it on him lads.
All contributions gratefully accepted...

Actually my best mate at school was a hammers fan so I've nothing particularly against them but it's just something I've noticed over the years - they've developed some tremendous players over the years but never really done anything with them.

[VaVaVoom]

Let me give a somewhat outside & objective view on Joe Cole (because I like him and will forget for the moment that he plays for the enemy).

There's no doubt that Cole has that something special in vision/creativity that most players would die for but will never get no matter how long they play the game. However, with all players of this type, and especially young players of this type, he needs to be in the right situation to let his talents develop into results. That means 2 things to me: (1) he needs to be playing everyday and (2) he needs to be in a team that will support his "artistic" side.

On the first point, it's clear that he didn't get the minutes on the pitch this year (especially in the first half of the season) at Chelski to power his development. Experience is absolutely critical for a player who relies on his wits v. his brute strength/speed becuase his decision-making will only improve through experience. And it is decision-making (not more tricks or technique) that will convert him from a showboat regular into a great player who delivers results.

On the second point of supporting the artistic side of his game, it means 2 things: (1) does the team play a style of football where his style will flourish (v. conflict) and (2) does he have the partners/position that will allow him to accentuate his positives and not hurt the team with his negatives. Chelski certainly have the talented players to play a game where he could flourish, but I think they are the wrong team for him because he's not a good partner for Lampard and isn't really a winger. Any freedom given to Cole as a central midfielder would be freedom removed from Lampard's game, and I think you'll agree that that would be a bad thing for the team. Maybe he could develop into a Pires (who isn't really a winger, but does quite well as a right-footed player on the left), but then again, you have Duff (and Robben?) there. In any event, he's looked a bit lost out on the wing. One other alternative would be to play him in the hole behind a lone striker. That said, I think this is Gudjohnsen's best position (not quite as a hole player, but dropping into the hole), so this is another slot where he'd struggle for a fit at Chelski.

So, to answer your question, I think that Cole has the potential to be a great playmaker, but I don't think it will ever happen for him at Chelsea. Actually, I don't think it will happen for him if he stays in England. Beyond the top 4 clubs in England (I don't think he fits in with any of them and he'd struggle for regular time anyway), he may play, but it will be like playing for West Ham all over again -- the other teams just don't have the system/quality for him to improve.

I think he'd be best served by learning Spanish over the summer. The style of play there throughout La Liga is more suited to his game. As such, he could make a move to mid-table side like Sevilla or Atletico Madrid and get the development time he needs while still playing at the top level. If you look at some other young creative types (Ronildinho, Aimar, Deco, van der Vaart), they've benefited both from regular playing time and a supportive situation, often in "lower" leagues. In some ways, it's a shame that Cole didn't go abroad sooner, when he could have justified a move to Holland or France. Those leagues are too small for him now, but he could have been another Bergkamp if he was at Ajax when he was 18.