Whats the toughest group? [Multiple results included]

[Galvatron]

Ceres - your'e still full of crap, and I honestly thought Danish weren't such big fruitcakes as you.
Sweden beat Bulgaria and Romania in 94, they were two of the best teams in the World Cup. Perhaps you were still sucking your mummy's tit back then, but Romania beat Argentina and Colombia(pre-tournament favourites), Bulgaria beat Argentina and Germany(World Champions).

It's truly pathetic, even more pathetic than your national team, how hard you try at making them sound like a good team. And that you have to make 3 different posts for that proves to me once again what a pathetic try-hard you are at trying to sound clever.
Denmark - Brazil was an entertaining game, but in the end, Brazil were better, and even if you amatuers had won it, there's no way you wouldv'e won the World Cup, Holland and/or France wouldv'e walsed over you twice for sure.

Your'e still holding on to your'e pathic meaningless games, that nobody cares about even more. Okay, France was no match for you on that day, but perhaps that was because they were missing their two best players(well, Zidane was there, but not the REAL Zidane). Take away your'e two best players, whoever they are, and what are you left with? an even crapper side then youv'e already got. And the match against Italy wasn't life or deat you nimrod, Italy still won the group didn't they? and it's kinda sad how your useless team played only 3 decent matches over the last 4.5 years.

Tomasson is a crap striker. A striker that can only score consistently as a sub is not a real striker, and will be quickly forgotten. When most people think of the Milan side of this season they think of Shev, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Pirlo, Maldini etc , but not of that Danish nobody.
Tomasson will probably not be with Milan much longer anyway. 1 more season, max

[catanaggio]

I love the exchange between galvatron and ceres. They are actually trying to argue that what happened in 1992 or 1994 will matter in 2004.
Funny thing about 1992 though -- Denmark did not even qualify for Euro '92. They were 2nd in their qualifying group behind Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia did not play because of the war and the rest is history.

[Ceres]

Ceres - your'e still full of crap, and I honestly thought Danish weren't such big fruitcakes as you.

It's truly pathetic, even more pathetic than your national team, how hard you try at making them sound like a good team. And that you have to make 3 different posts for that proves to me once again what a pathetic try-hard you are at trying to sound clever.

Tomasson is a crap striker. A striker that can only score consistently as a sub is not a real striker, and will be quickly forgotten. When most people think of the Milan side of this season they think of Shev, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Pirlo, Maldini etc , but not of that Danish nobody.
Tomasson will probably not be with Milan much longer anyway. 1 more season, max

Okay, belive want you want, it just showes how little you actually know about the players your writing about.... Perhaps you should listen to an Italian ("fruitcake" ;) ) who actually get to watch players like Tomasson, Jorgensen and Per Krøldrup play in Serie A.... I quote Soccernet Correspondent James Riggio : (see link)...

Denmark has a host of quality players who play in Serie A. A lot of people know John Dahl Tommasson from AC Milan and no doubt, he is a world-class forward.

AC Milan's Martin Laursen has struggled this year, but I thought he was one of the best defenders at the 2002 World Cup. I expect big things from him. Pier Koldrup, a left-back from Udinese, is another outstanding player, who could end up with a bigger side like Juventus.

But I think Denmark's best player is Martin Jorgensen, who is unknown to many outside Serie A. Jorgensen is the attacking midfielder for Udinese and he nearly signed with Lazio this past summer. I would have to put Jorgensen on the list of the world's most underrated players. He is certainly a star in Serie A.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/et/corr/corrview?id=162&leagueCup=UEFA.EURO&cc=5739

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[Galvatron]

I'm glad to see that Iv'e won virtually every argument, bar from that pathetic ideology of yours that Danish players should be watched out for and feared :D hahaha, you may aswell try to convince me that the grass isn't green and the sky isn't blue.

Iv'e seen Tomasson every week in his Feyenoord period, and I regularly see AC Milan matches. He's a hard worker, he's got decent positional sense, he's direct, as in, he shoots at goal without thinking, but just when I thought Inzaghi was the best ballerina diver in the world, along comes this little Danish bitch. The amount of times he tries to get a penalty or foul called against him is just utterly disgusting. Another reason why this reject will never have a lasting impression on any football fan or Milanista for that matter.
Is this Kolcrap just like Laursen? probably, sure he looks good with a weak Italian side, but once he plays for one of the big 5 he'll get no further than the bench, and after 6 years and 5 league matches he'll get shoved back to some useless Danish team such as Aarhus.

Have the Queen of England, or better still, Pele quote how good a Danish player is for all I care. Thing is, what I see during 95% of the matches I see you play in REAL and IMPORTANT matches, your'e pish to watch, and your'e no better than the next 3rd world soccer team I can name - Bulgaria, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia etc

[grandinquisitor28]

Can we get back to the toughest group debate and leave this Denmark-bashing animus behind? I don't claim to even remotely understand what's got Galvatron so aggravated w/Denmark or their supporters, I'd just rather get back to the interesting debate on the relative quality of the groups.

I'll go w/the consensus and say that Group D looks, on paper, to be the toughest. That, of course, remains to be seen. Group C and B could also be interested if certain underdogs play over their heads or simply above consensus expectations. The only group that appears to be a formality is A.

Btw, I expect Denmark to certainly be in the running to advance, and likely advance out of their group. Indeed, if I were to call it right now, I'd say it would go:

1. Italy 7 pts
2. Denmark 4 points
3. Sweden 3 points
4. Bulgaria 1 point

Of course I could be completely and horribly wrong about this, I just view Denmark as a team that tends to maximize (at least lately) it's perhaps more humbling (at least in Galvatron's view) pieces when it works as a whole unit. No one would have confused Denmark's National Team at the World Cup in '02 w/any of the perceived contenders, but when it came to group play, the only teams that looked as good were Brazil, Germany, Spain and Senegal (fill in the blank for the obligatory additional team, perhaps S. Korea, perhaps Mexico or Turkey).

I don't think Denmark is really a Cup winning caliber team, but I do think that when it comes to getting results, at least in the early stages of tournaments, Denmark has a very good chance of doing so.

We'll see what happens, though, Denmark could fall on it's face as Portugal did (in the World Cup) after a sterling run in Euro '00, so who knows what will happen. Should be very interesting.

Very strange to see how fall Portugal's fallen in esteem, understandable to a degree as they have aged a great deal, but still, Portugal's a squad that was a disputed call away from playing for the Euro Championship in '00, and was viewed by many as THE BEST, or the 2nd best looking UEFA qualifyer during the qualification campaign for the '02 World Cup. They imploded in S. Korea for a variety of reasons, but they're a team that I view as a threat since they're at home, and I imagine that they're players will want to erase the horrendous performance in '02 from their home town fans minds. Playing at home and in their group, they appear to have a very good shot at advancing to at least the first single elimination game.

Anyway, can't wait to see what happens, unfortunately if my local sports bar doesn't carry it, I won't be able to see it so I'll have to read you're accounts.

[argaen]

Denmark won't do well in Euro 2k4 because their B team couldn't beat the USA B team in a friendly earlier this year.

I'm only kidding. :p

[Final Hippie]

Group D is the hardest. With three monster teams, tensions will run high and the players will get motivated like no tomorrow... namely Holland, who will come out on top. Although, I admit, I'm not sure about how Germany will do. And I think I'm expecting Holland+Czech to go to QF.

[grandinquisitor28]

I wonder if people are underrating Latvia a bit too much. There is definitely a high probability that they may just be the cliche'd "happy to be there" squad, but they had some deeply impressive results in getting there. I think they certainly have a shot at surprising some people. Beat Sweden and drew with Sweden, and did the same w/Turkey in their home and home for qualification battle. They had some bad results mixed in during their qualification (lost 1-3 at Hungry, and 0-2 at Poland, but during the campaign they went 6-2-2, including the 1-0 and 2-2 results against Turkey). They couldn't have been drawn into a tougher group though w/perrendial powerhouse (yet underachiever) Holland, World Cup Runner Up (but fading fast) Germany, and dark horse favorite Czech Republic. There's no weak sister there for Latvia to pound on, just two very strong teams and a question mark in Germany.

Still, I'm eager to see what Latvia does in the tournament. Should be very interesting. They start off w/the Czech's which will be tough, but if Holland puts the hammer down on Germany they've got an either or proposition coming their way. Will Germany be a shattered and humiliated squad (kind of like Poland when it played Portugal two years ago following it's 2-0 defeat to S. Korea), or will it wake up and strike back, w/Latvia being the unfortunate victims. I can't wait to see how Group D turns out.

[Galvatron]

I hope nobody is stupid enough to take this American no-nothing serious. He clearly knows crap all bout footy since he's even taking Latvia serious. Might aswell take team USA serious at the next World Cup hahah :D

Anyway, Denmark just played 2-2 with the Estonian nobody's, another justification why we shouldn't expect pish all from those amateurs, while Sweden actually beat Finland 3-1, in convincing manner, with a sparkling Ibrahimovic.

Latvia and Denmark are certain first round exiters, no doubt bout that.

[grandinquisitor28]

You are absolutely charming, aren't you? I'm taking Latvia as serious as their results, which were surprisingly good, though not convincing of elite status. I expect them to be bounced in the group phase, and to probably finish in D's cellar. But it's certainly possible that they could surprise. If they play as well as they did in much (though not all) of qualifying, Latvia could get at least a draw in group play, and maybe pull off a victory. Do I think it's likely? No. But if the Dutch crush Germany in their opening game, then Latvia could get a demoralized German team in their second matchup. Then again the same is true for Germany, as the Czech's could run Latvia completely off the field in their opener.

My points simple. No one expects anything of Latvia. However Latvia got here, whether they're just happy to be here, or capable of more is up to them, their opponents, and the way the ball bounces two weeks from now.

Btw, seriously, why the hatred of the Denmarks? Do you find their play dull? I certainly do at times. Hating on them just seems a bit ridiculous to me. Why on earth could the Danes provoke such a visceral reaction from you.

As for USA at the next World Cup, we'll wait and see, US still needs to qualify and stay healthy, and find some answers in some problem area's. In the end, if the US makes it, a lot will depend on the draw, and on US and a bit on luck as it always does. The US of A is not the caliber of team that can come in and simply impose it's will on virtually any team on the field, that is still, generally, the domain of France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, and to a degree, I suppose the Dutch, Spain and England. But I do think the US is closing in on the next tier of teams. The teams that depending on health, some good luck in the draw, and some nice bounces on game day, can get the necessary results to advance beyond group play. Not sure my nation is quite there, in that tier, but I do think it's close.

Anyway can't wait to see how things transpire, I'm absolutely praying my local sports bar, The Englander, by some chance is showing the tournament.

Who do you expect to do well Galvatron? In Group Play and in terms of winning it all?

[Galvatron]

Any realist and person with only the tiniest bit of footy knowledge would know that Holland is not gonna crush Germany, hahaha, what r u smoking dude?
Sure, Holland could be the most dominant team, I expect them to technically be the superior side, but knowing Holland, they never put on the gas, as in bang 4 un-answered goals past Kahn. There is a degree of respect also between the team, despite being arch-rivals. 3-1 is the most I expect from Holland, but it will probably be a near loss for the Germans and a tight 1-0 win for the Dutch.
Latvia are technically nothing, I don't rate the Germans high, but there's no way that Latvia could "suprise" them. Name one outstandingly good Latvian player for instance.

I don't hate Denmark, I dis-like them as much as the next soccer nobody I can name, team USA. Not the chicks, but the pathetic mens team, who play like chicks :D
Iv'e heard the same crap from you people time and time again, point is, while 2002 may have been a "strange" year for football - who expects Korea to reach the semi's again? team USA is nothing, and will remain nothing for at least another 20 yrs. The most you amateurs can hope for is another 2nd round exit.
And amateurs should be taken literally, there were a number of well-respected Dutch journalist/columnists describing your defenders in the most recent Holland - USA clash as "Gouden-Gids niveau" - which means at the level of the Dutch 2nd division. I couldn't have agreed more on that :)

And I'm guessing it will be a France - Portugal Final.

[grandinquisitor28]

The Netherlands-Germany match should be very telling in how Germany plays through the rest of the tournament. You could easily be right, and the Dutch have certainly been inconsistent for years now, looking like world beaters one day, and bored mediocrities the next (despite the clearly amazing talent). I think it all depends on which Dutch squad shows up. However I do think the Dutch are fully capable of crushing the Germans, who simply aren't anywhere near the caliber of national team that they were in past decades. We'll see what happens, though, they play the games for a reason.

You keep harping on the individuals, and while this is certainly important, and a key determinant on whom lifts the trophy, it's the team that gets the results. And quite often, it's the better organized team, that comes up w/the quality results. Latvia may not be even remotely an elite team on a player to player level, but as a unit, they worked brilliantly together during qualifying, and sometimes it's team works that wins out. Over the long hall of a tournament, talent nearly always trumps team work, but in the early stages, a better organized team w/chemistry can and often will spring a surprise. That's why i think if Latvia is taken as lightly as you take them, they could pull a surprise. Turkey's at home for that very reason.

What "crap" do you speak of? I don't by any stretch, consider team USA, to be the type a team that can win, or advance out of whatever group it gets tossed into, if it qualifies. A helluvalot depends upon which two European squads are bunched in with it. If USA draws two of the stronger European squads, then our national team will be in deep trouble, but if it draws some lower tier European squads, then advancement is certainly possible. I don't for an instant believe that '02 is a predictor of imminent progressive advancement from Cup to Cup, '98 was a reminder that w/poor coaching and poor roster selections, truly horrific debacles are possible for team USA. However I do believe that the US are advancing, slowly but surely, and 2006 will likely be a further step forward, even if the results aren't likely to be as enjoyable as those in Korea. I would take advancing to the 2nd round in Germany to be a success, and anything beyond that as truly amazing, considering that we're still hunting for the next generation of strikers to replace the old (McBride), and the injury prone (McBride, Wolf, Mathis), as it seems Donovan is more and more likely to be used as an A-Mid unless injuries prohibit that, and considering that we have holes in the lineup that need answers. Our strength will almost assuredly be our midfield.

As for the Dutch comments on our defense, I don't take it very seriously. I recall reading in Euro press preceeding the World Cup in '02, that this was the worst US National Team to qualify since '90, and that another #32 finish was very possible and perhaps even likely. They didn't know much then, or now, about us, just take a look back at the projected lineups they had for our national team. Our defense is currently in a state of flux, as we have quality youth (guys like Gibbs and Boca and the less stellar Dolo), mixed in w/aging vets who are still quite good (Pope), and are even more out of their depth (Heydude) as well as Convey who continues to be started at Left Back even though it's not his natural position.

I make no predictions as to how USA will fare in Germany, we'll have to make it their first, but I'll be sure to pass along my thoughts if we qualify when the groups are assigned.

Anyway, currently, I continue to see D as the toughest Euro group, and C as the group that could be the most interesting to watch in terms of whom actually grabs the additional slot beyond Italy? Whom do you expect to advance? Sounds like Sweden.

[Galvatron]

You don't need to make your'e crap stories this long that in essence still don't give me any reason why I should be taking you, or your pathetic theories only slightly serious.

The Dutch have the potential to crush the Germans? if they have that potential now, then they certainly have had that potential in 88, 90, and 92 too. But they only won by a marginal score, except for 92, and lost in 90. In 92 they literally played the Germans off the park for 60 minutes, but in the end, the score didn't reflect the superiority of the Dutch team that day. Thing is, no matter how crap Germany may have played in the friendlies, and no matter how little quality the team has at the moment compared to Holland, it's not going to be a thrashing by the Dutch. Like I said before, the Dutch have a certain degree of respect for the Germans and they won't treat them as a rag-doll like they did to Yugoslavia during EURO 2000, or what they for sure could do with the amatuerstic Americans.
And another thing, it seems youv'e become blinded by the Americans during 2002, that they reached the quaters and all and we could possibly expect more big things from them in 06 (hahaha), but of the Germans, who reached the Final, you expect to get thrashed by the Dutch and may even lose to Latvia?
Ok that your'e pathetically biased I already knew, but this proves how retardedly f'ed up also your logic is, just like Ceres.

Latvia has chemistry? how would you know, I suppose youv'e seen every qualifying match and that you know every player on their team extremely well? enough with the typical half-wit bullcrap plz, and ever heard of the saying "sometimes hard work alone isn't enough? anyway, I'm not spend anymore time on this, if your'e rooting for those nobody's just say so, but stop with your pathetic "potential upset" theories.

The US is nothing in terms of quality. Youv'e got one of the easiest routes to the WC, so of course your'e gonna qualify, but filling your'e pathetic team with Mexicans isn't gonna progress you any further than the 2nd round at most.
The 2002 shouldv'e never happened, it made millions of obtuse people like you think that team USA is now a force to be reckoned with. And I do take these columnist and journalists quite seriously, just like I take myself seriously, coz I concluded the same. Berthalter, Moore, Pope are one by one amateuristic nobody's, that no striker in the world should have any fear of.
And Donovan? the eternal talent as we call it in Holland, a big-star wannabe, who just can't seem to break through. No matter who your coach is in 2006, even if it's the great Johan Cruyff, or somebody like Marcelo Lippi, no coach is gonna achieve anything special with the quality, or lack of, that the US has.

[grandinquisitor28]

Good lord, you've got some serious issues to work out. Have you ever come across the word "civility"? I've been reading posts at Big Soccer for four years now, and I've got to say you are truly one of a rare kind. Certainly well informed, far more so on Europe then me (as it should be), but there is little doubt that you have blinders on, and that you really need to get some lessons in humility and civility, not to mention open mindedness. I get the feeling you can't possibly imagine that you could ever be wrong about anything. Take a lesson from Socrates, it can and will help.

As for the Dutch. I care about right now, while past tournaments showcase trends, and can really predict who will and won't match up with other opponents in any given era, this Germany is a National Side that has been in decline for several years, really since '98, w/'02 being analgous to how you view America's performance there, a fluke. The Dutch easily could have the trouble you suggest, their on again off again performances of late suggest that it could easily happen, as well as their history. Still, I have to think that they'll come out to play, and play well. Something on the scale of 2-0 Netherlands is what I expect.

As for being fond of these nothing teams. Sure, I do like underdogs, always have, always will, but my points about Latvia are simple and straight forward and not in the least homeristic (although my hopes for Denmark may be clouded by my familial ancestry, I doubt that's true considering that I find them a rather dull squad to watch.). I enjoyed watching Latvia's run, and I respect a squad that accomplished what they have. To dismiss them as irrelevant after the results they got in qualifying strikes me as a bit harsh. A title contender? Certainly not. But still, a team that earned it's way in, and could get a decent result or two, or at least play the spoiler.

As for team USA, well you officially know jack and squat about my national team, that you'd suggest you know more than you actually do is deeply contradicted by your most recent post. As I have mentioned earlier, you have a far more prodigious depth of understanding of Europe than I have, but when it comes to my region, you're a bit lacking. "Filling our team w/Mexicans"? Whom do you speak of? We don't have a single Mexican-American in our starting eleven, and you'd have to the youth level to even find reserves that are latino's. It's a shame actually, as we've done a pi$$poor job of recruiting latin-americans for the national team. I can speak to that point in my experience working in the inner city of the Bay Area. Still, beyond a handful of youths here and there, there are no Mexican-Americans I can think of that are even close to starting for Team USA. I could be missing one or two, but I doubt it. As for easy routes, talk to Asia, and Oceania before you talk about us. And of course, when it comes to UEFA, my last perusal of qualifying suggested that the average quality European side faces generally only two teams two challenge them in qualifying. There is normally one or two groups of death, and then the rest of the 6-8 groups have a bunch of proverbial cannon-fodder like San Marino, Lichenstein, and Faroe Islands, Luxemborg and that ilk. I would never suggest that Uefa is easy. It isn't. Once you kick aside the doormats, the average World Cup qualifying caliber squad, still has to knock it's one fellow contender out of 1st to avoid the home and home. But still, that leaves most teams with only two legit contenders in their way when it comes to qualifying. I consider South America tougher than that. Concacaf, maybe not, but certainly not easy.

Try playing in Azteca, it's not easy, playing at Sapprisa, in Honduras, in Guatemala, these teams aren't world beaters but they are horrendously difficult to deal with at home. Slovenia, that made it out of group play, got their rears handed to them by a Honduras team 4-0 if I remember right in March of '02, Costa Rica scored two on Brazil, something NO ONE else did in the entire World Cup. Costa Rica also tied semi-finalist Turkey, and Mexico came a few minutes from beating Mexico, did beat Croatia, and would have beaten quite a few of it's round of 16 foes if it had not matched up w/our squad (we've had their number outside Azteca for a few years running). Concacaf is not Conmebol, or Uefa, but it isn't chopped liver either. It has advanced at least one qualifyer in each of the past five cups (Mexico to the quarters at home in '86, Costa Rica to the round of 16 in Italy in '90, USA and Mexico to the round of 16 in '94 losing to the eventual Champ 1-0, and losing in penalties to the semi-finalist Bulgaria for the latter, and Mexico made it to the round of 16 agains Germany in '98, and of course USA and Mexico faced one another in the round of 16 in '02), and twice advanced to the quarterfinals. Along the way Bulgaria, and Belgium fell in '86, Scottland and Sweden fell in '90, Ireland fell in '94, while the Swiss and Italians could only manage draws against the US and Mexico, and Bulgaria required penalties to oust Mexico, in '98 Belgium and the Dutch could only draw with Mexico, and in '02 Portugal and Croatia fell, and Italy could only manage a last second equalizer to tie Mexico. While it would be a definite stretch to say that Concacaf reps can regularly roll the best that UEFA has to offer, in the past five cups Concacaf squads have beaten European squads seven times, and concacaf pulled off draws in regulation six times (none of the 0-0 quality), including two w/Italy and a regulation draw (lost on penalties) two semi-finalist Bulgaria in '94.

Yet our region is cr@p? Our region has nowhere near the quantity of quality caliber squads that UEFA did, and anyone and everyone would be nuts to suggest so, but over the past fiver World Cups and qualifying campaigns, Concacaf has more than earned the automatic slots they've been alloted, and been quite competitive w/European squads they've competed w/in group play.

As for the particular players. Max-Moore didn't start a single World Cup team, and most American Fans didn't even want him on the final 23 barring injury, despite that, many European Preview Magazines and sites listed Moore as a starter. Berhalter? He was a part time fill in, and is not regarded as an automatic starter for the national team. Pope reportedly rejected offers to join the EPL in the late nineties in favor of helping grow Soccer and the MLS in America, laugh as I know you will, but Pope is regarded as perhaps the best ever American Defender for a reason, and was highly regarded by European squads in his prime. But I'm sure his American pedigree means he automatically sucks right? Or the fact that he doesn't play in Europe. As for Donovan, I'm annoyed at his stubborness w/regards to Leverkeusen, but he soured on his experience there, and will likley move onto Europe this coming winter, whether it be in a completed transfer to Portsmouth that was botched this past winter, or to some other squad. He scored two goals in the World Cup, had another logged as an own goal against Portugal, had another foolishly disallowed against Poland, and had two nearly sure goals saved by sprawling, desperate efforts from Kahn. Still, I'm sure the two official goals, the disallowed goal, the goal that was scored w/the assistance of the neck of a Portugese player, and the near heart attack he gave Kahn and the German Defense in the quarters were all momentary lapses by the respected defenses which were distracted by his otherwise, tedious, and unimaginative, robotic American play. Right? He's no superstar. But he is a very special talent who could help a lot of teams in Europe a great deal. I hope he finds a great place to play this coming winter.

As for the World Cup. As I said before, my expectations are lowered, I feel '02 may have been a bit too much too soon, however w/Arena as coach, w/good health, w/qualification, and then with a fairly friendly draw, a run to the single elimination games is possible. Again, it totally depends on the group. If we end up, say as the stand in for Nigeria, in the last cups group of death, then forget about it. We'd have been doomed. However, every other group we could have advanced out of considering our caliber of play in the tournament and our health and the relative caliber of play other teams showcased. Group A and E would have been difficult but possible, group B, G, and H would have been very possible, and group C would have been tricky (a result against China would be no problem, but pulling a draw w/Turkey in that tourney w/how they were playing would strike me as difficult/unlikely). Anyway, the draw tells all. Anything outside of group play is just hopefullness on my part. A win would be nice, but since my expectations are constrained by concerns w/health and the draw, I'm not about to suggest and would never at this stage, that team USA is the caliber of international squad that can book a round of 16 appearance. Forget about it. We are definitely not there yet. A lot has to fall into place for my country. Still, it's very possible.

Anyway, for right now, I've got Spain, Italy, France and Holland in the semifinals, w/the Czech's as the obligatory dark horses and Portugal as a contender as well. I suppose that's a bit tedious and by the numbers, but I can't really see anyone else making a serious run besides England, but England's got a difficult road regardless as to whether they win their group (Spain, or Portugal, in Portugal, does not strike me as something they'd enjoy dealing with) so for now I have England losing in the quarters.

Anyway, since you're obviously more informed about all things Europe I'll defer to your all encompassing wisdom and lack of any apparent predictive foibles. :D

[Ceres]

Good lord, you've got some serious issues to work out. Have you ever come across the word "civility"? I've been reading posts at Big Soccer for four years now, and I've got to say you are truly one of a rare kind. Certainly well informed, far more so on Europe then me (as it should be), but there is little doubt that you have blinders on, and that you really need to get some lessons in humility and civility, not to mention open mindedness.

Actually Galvatron is not all that well informed, he know very little about what he's talking about and he keeps contradicting himself, that should be clear reading his posts.

First he say that Denmark was total crap at WC-98, then suddenly the Laudrup brothers were among his favorite players at WC-98...

He also claim that if Denmark had beaten Brazil in the Quarter finals at WC-98 then :

there's no way you wouldv'e won the World Cup, Holland and/or France wouldv'e walsed over you twice for sure.

Well, noone know if Denmark could have won it, but we do know that Denmark actually did play vs. France at WC-98 with france winning 2-1 in the group play, not being able to "walse" over anything "twice" in that match... so again he's wrong ....

Then he also claim that unlike Tomasson and the other Danish players like e.g. Grønkjaer, the Laudrups succeeded in the biggest leagues.. This is actually quite funny, since Brian Laudrup failed big time at both AC Milan (9 games, 1 goal) and Chelsea (7 games, 0 goals) ;) ... so again Galvatron manage to contradict himself...

Then he claim that both Belgium and Denmark . have been lightweights in every other tournament. and havent shown anything apart from Belgium in 86 (semi final vs. Argentina) and Denmark being lucky in 92 ( Euro Champions), despite the fact that Belgium also won the silver medal at Euro-80 and the Bronce medal at Euro-72 + the fact that Denmark was in the Semi finals both in 64 and 84 and surely also could have won the title in 84. (in the 80's Denmark had a world-class NT at the top of the ranking with Brazil, playing some excellent soccer even though they didnt manage to win any titles)

He also claim that it dosnt make Denmark a good team beating France at the WC-02, but that it made Bulgaria and Romania World-class teams, because they both beat Argentina (and Bulgaria beat Germany) in 94.

In this strange twisted way he is trying to support the claim that the 3rd place at WC-1994 by Sweden (beating Russia, Saudi Arabia, Romania and Bulgaria) is ranked higher than the Danish Euro 1992 Championship (beating the favorites France, the Euro champions Holland and World champions Germany) ... again contradicting himself by suddenly writing that teams like ("3rd world soccer team -" ;)) Bulgaria and Romania actually can be "bigger" teams than France, Holland and Germany ...

The truth is that a 3rd place at the WC finals is never rank higher than a Euro Championship. The fact is that neither Sweden at that time, or e.g. Turkey this time, even managed to qualify for the Euro finals after getting their WC 3rd place.
-----

It's clear that Galvatron for some reason hate the Danish team no matter what and try to prove his point, no matter the actual facts or that the experts who watch the players every week, disagree with him ...

Though I do understand why he knows little about the danish players, since the European media usually focus on players from the bigger nations... and always seem to underrate players from small countries...
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[Ceres]

Denmark won't do well in Euro 2k4 because their B team couldn't beat the USA B team in a friendly earlier this year.

I'm only kidding. :p

Well, (even though your only kidding) I could surely understand if ppl watching that horrible 1-1 match, would think that the Danish B (domestic) team is crap, but it was played during the Danish League winter break, so non of these domestic players were in any shape to play some decent soccer (That's why no TV-station in Denmark were even willing to pick up the rights to transmit the game)

I also doubt that any of the players from that 1-1 match will get to play at Euro-04, so far it's only the two goalkeepers Peter Skov-Jensen (FC Midtjylland) and Stephan Andersen (AB/ now Charlton) from the Domestic squad, who is also selected for the final Euro-04 squad. and ther is only one spot open on the squad, for one more domestic player. (probably a defender)
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[Galvatron]

Actually Galvatron is not all that well informed, he know very little about what he's talking about and he keeps contradicting himself, that should be clear reading his posts.

First he say that Denmark was total crap at WC-98, then suddenly the Laudrup brothers were among his favorite players at WC-98...

He also claim that if Denmark had beaten Brazil in the Quarter finals at WC-98 then :



Well, noone know if Denmark could have won it, but we do know that Denmark actually did play vs. France at WC-98 with france winning 2-1 in the group play, not being able to "walse" over anything "twice" in that match... so again he's wrong ....

Then he also claim that unlike Tomasson and the other Danish players like e.g. Grønkjaer, the Laudrups succeeded in the biggest leagues.. This is actually quite funny, since Brian Laudrup failed big time at both AC Milan (9 games, 1 goal) and Chelsea (7 games, 0 goals) ;) ... so again Galvatron manage to contradict himself...

Then he claim that both Belgium and Denmark . and havent shown anything apart from Belgium in 86 (semi final vs. Argentina) and Denmark being lucky in 92 ( Euro Champions), despite the fact that Belgium also won the silver medal at Euro-80 and the Bronce medal at Euro-72 + the fact that Denmark was in the Semi finals both in 64 and 84 and surely also could have won the title in 84. (in the 80's Denmark had a world-class NT at the top of the ranking with Brazil, playing some excellent soccer even though they didnt manage to win any titles)

He also claim that it dosnt make Denmark a good team beating France at the WC-02, but that it made Bulgaria and Romania World-class teams, because they both beat Argentina (and Bulgaria beat Germany) in 94.

In this strange twisted way he is trying to support the claim that the 3rd place at WC-1994 by Sweden (beating Russia, Saudi Arabia, Romania and Bulgaria) is ranked higher than the Danish Euro 1992 Championship (beating the favorites France, the Euro champions Holland and World champions Germany) ... again contradicting himself by suddenly writing that teams like ("3rd world soccer team -" ;)) Bulgaria and Romania actually can be "bigger" teams than France, Holland and Germany ...

The truth is that a 3rd place at the WC finals is never rank higher than a Euro Championship. The fact is that neither Sweden at that time, or e.g. Turkey this time, even managed to qualify for the Euro finals after getting their WC 3rd place.
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It's clear that Galvatron for some reason hate the Danish team no matter what and try to prove his point, no matter the actual facts or that the experts who watch the players every week, disagree with him ...

Though I do understand why he knows little about the danish players, since the European media usually focus on players from the bigger nations... and always seem to underrate players from small countries...
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Yes, you read it correctly fruitcake. I thought Denmark played the group matches during WC 98 CRAP, knowning the Laudrup brothers played in both matches. In fact, against South Africa B Laudrup was the only man in the team that didn't look like an amatuer.
In the last two matches you somehow played better, the Laudrup brothers shined, but nevertheless you beat a very weak Nigerian team that day, but did look pretty decent against Brazil. So ONE decent game, 3 CRAP games, and one game where the opponent was having an off-day, coz remember, Nigeria beat Spain amongst other teams. So had you by a good doze of luck managed to beat Brazil, I still didn't see any chance of you beating the Dutch, who were, as widely regarded, the best attacking team of the World Cup.

You made it sound like as if Sweden beat two average team in 94, when you clearly didn't know that Romania and Bulgaria were the two biggest surprises of 94, and I just had to tell you that.

At the moment, Bulgaria is a 3rd world soccer team just like the Danish amatuers. In 94 they had Stoichkov, Balakov, Yankov et al, this time round I expect them and Denmark to have a very short stay.

Which Danish player is under-rated? Gravesen of Everton(bottom-half team in England)?, Laursen of Aston Villa?(6th in England), Gronkjaer?(crap winger, and is not Chelsea material), or Tomasson?(moment player, and can't get further than the bench in Italy), your'e over-rating you ultra-biased illeterate. Why should we take notice of these players? Ljunberg plays with Arsenal, is now starting player for example, while Gronkjaer is sub at Chelsea and has been told to piss off elsewhere, so why should people be giving attention to any Danish reject? Clarify that plz

[prk166]

Denmark won't do well in Euro 2k4 because their B team couldn't beat the USA B team in a friendly earlier this year.

I'm only kidding. :p

Kidding, kidding? No need to kid. FIFA has the USA ranked #8! They're tough!

**SMIRK**

[grandinquisitor28]

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they even create rankings if they're this absurd. Even as a US Fan, I can recognize how thoroughly out of whack the rankings are (just check out Mexico ranked above us, or whose ranked below). As much as American's make fun of the AP, and Coaches Poll's for NCAA football, and basketball, and even of the B(C)S poll, there is far, far, far greater reason involved w/those skewed rankings then Fifa's, heck I'd take Jeff Sagarins bizarre computer rankings over Fifa's.

[Galvatron]

Indeed, USA ranked 8th? playing tiny little central american nations to get to the World Cup and for the rest a host of meaningless friendlies. Jesus, team USA shouldn't even be within the top 30. And Mexico, technically far better than the amatueristic Americans, are ranker lower! This is truly screwed up.