Polynesia (South Pacific) national entity in IRB?

[OldFanatic]

I was thinking about this: In cricket, the ICC has allowed a number of small countries (Carribean islands - Guyana excepted) to participate as a single entity called the West Indies for many years. This includes the cricket world cups, and in fact they dominated the sport in the 70's. Can the IRB allow collection of Polynesian islands (chiefly in the South Pacific: Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Vanuatu, Tahiti, etc.) to compete as a single "international" entity?

The motivation behind this question is that I've noticed incredible talent from these countries when watching the Super-12. (Rupeni is top of the list.) However when watching the last World Cup, it was almost embarassing to see the small island nations getting thrashed around, and such one-sidedness cannot make a good sporting spectacle. There is no way such small island countries can have a depth in player pool to compete against the likes of All Blacks, England, Wallabies, etc. From what little I've read, some of them try to get a New Zealand passport and eventually wear the All Blacks shirt. Instead, if the best players from each island nation were combined together in a single "national" team, they could provide better competition and could even make the sport more exciting.

If Jamaica, Trinidad, Antigua, Barbados, Guyana, etc. were forced to participate as individual countries, there is no way the record setters such as Sobers, Lloyd, Kalicharan, Viv Richards, Malcolm Marshall, Holding, Lara, etc. would have shone as much as they did. Maybe these countries could have stayed in Bangladesh style mediocrity for a while; or make few individual splashes here and there, but never dominate.

Is it that the Polynesian islands are much farther apart from each other than the Carribean, that the travelling distances wouldn't be practical? Or is it that they aren't as culturally homogeneous? The cultural issue doesn't really apply to West Indies though, which has some diversity. Or did the sport reach them not around the same time, but in stages? If anyone knows a historical background behind this, I would be interested in hearing about it.

P.S. I know there is talk of a new Polynesian team to compete in the Super-12 (or Super-13??) in the future. But that's not the same thing. I'm more interested in knowing about the full international competition.

[Craig the Aussie]

I think that would be a great idea!!

For example they could play as individual countries (Fiji, Tonga & W.Samoa)against USA, Canada, Japan etc, say while the Super 12 was on.

Then while the Tri-Nations was on they could play as a combined team against whichever of NZ, SA or Aus. had the bye.

The World Cup is a bit tougher though, as it is really a competition between RFU's, but it could work.

[the_baron]

Make it harder for Ireland to qualify for the CWC. :(

[Mr Hanki's Throne]

There is a regional entity in Gulf States Rugby Union, which is a "national" team for many Arab nations.

There will be a Pacific Islands regional team playing against Australia, I think, in the next touring season. I think the Pacific Islands problems right now are financial, rather than talent. They can't afford to host teams and can't afford to support a national feeder system the way Australia does, for example. All their best players get exported and have trouble coordinating with their home nations' unions.

[Capt. Socceroo]

AFAIK, PIRA (Pacific Islands Rugby Alliance) is set up like SANZAR (Sth Africa, NZ, Aust Rugby), ie over the individual unions. It is primarily a way for these small unions to raise money. By raising a southern hemisphere British and Irish Lions team, they can tour the SANZAR countries and make money. Initially, all proceeds from matches held are to go to PIRA and the Samoan, Fijian and Tonagan RFU's.

I really hope this takes off, as one thing holding back the PIRA unions is a lack of funds for infrastructure, coaches and playing salaries.

They've already taken the Waratahs (and the Reds I think) to the cleaners......up against Australia in their first test against a full international side on Saturday night at historic Adelaide Oval under lights. Should be a corker of a game!

[Mr Hanki's Throne]

This game is on in the US on Fox Sports World, so I am looking forward to this. The Islanders seem to combine size and speed, which makes things exciting.

[OldFanatic]

Ha, but Radike Samo has chosen to play for the Wallabies instead of Fiji. In any event, what's done is done. I'm hoping for a better opportunity for Polynesian kids in the future through this new alliance.

[OldFanatic]

I made comments in the "Rugby Union Internationals" and "All Blacks Haka" threads about this. In general, it's good to see this new team. But their off the ball tackling in the first match was very concerning. I really hope they clean up their act in the next match against All Blacks.

The only big name I could recognize from watching Super-12 was Mapasua, who ironically got embroiled in a controversial play. I didn't see any Rupeni, Vunibaka (sp?), Weepu, etc. (although I'm not sure about the citizenship of the last 2).

[DoyleG]

I would no doubt love to see an "Americas" team take on the Europeans during the winter.

[DoyleG]

I think that would be a great idea!!
For example they could play as individual countries (Fiji, Tonga & W.Samoa)against USA, Canada, Japan etc, say while the Super 12 was on.


They used to compete in what was called the Pacific Rim Cup. The competition ended because the costs were too much for the RFU's to handle.

[OldFanatic]

Yes, the Pacific Islander Warriors giving the All Blacks a run for the money. Now that's what I call football, baby. I was definitely not disappointed staying up till 2:30 AM. What a heck of a match. I'm saving the recording of this match. The only thing I was disappointed was that the Islanders kicking for penalties and try conversions was atrocious. They need to get someone other than Seremai Bai to kick these (or have him train harder). They dropped a number of easy points due to his wayward kicking.

http://rugby365.com/LATEST_NEWS/story_37183.shtml
http://rugby365.com/LATEST_NEWS/story_37197.shtml

World, beware!!! Here comes an exciting team for the good of the game. I hope it exactly has the effect of the game like the excitement West Indies brought to cricket back in 1970s. Let the Pacific Islanders compete as a single team in the next World Cup. It would make watching more matches worthwhile, and not boring blowouts!

[OldFanatic]

Let them play, let them play!!! Let them participate as a single team in the next world cup for the good of the game.

http://planetrugby.com/News/story_37310.shtml

[LeperKhan]

Let them play, let them play!!! Let them participate as a single team in the next world cup for the good of the game.

http://planetrugby.com/News/story_37310.shtml

I've watched parts of the 2 prior matches (didn't get a chance to see the Pacific Islands vs. South Africa yet), and agree that they've looked good and played some exciting rugby. That being said, though, I think they should continue to play as individual countries in the RWC. I'd like to see them do this as a similar thing to the British Lions, to raise their profile, get some cash, and get some more games against quality opposition. I think with better organization and opportunities to actually get in all their players for training ahead of the next World Cup (which has been one of the biggest problems), Fiji and Samoa (and to a lesser extent Tonga) will be able to compete against the likes of Scotland, Wales and Italy at the next RWC and even pull of the occasional upset.

[OldFanatic]

I've watched parts of the 2 prior matches (didn't get a chance to see the Pacific Islands vs. South Africa yet), and agree that they've looked good and played some exciting rugby. That being said, though, I think they should continue to play as individual countries in the RWC. I'd like to see them do this as a similar thing to the British Lions, to raise their profile, get some cash, and get some more games against quality opposition. I think with better organization and opportunities to actually get in all their players for training ahead of the next World Cup (which has been one of the biggest problems), Fiji and Samoa (and to a lesser extent Tonga) will be able to compete against the likes of Scotland, Wales and Italy at the next RWC and even pull of the occasional upset.
I respectfully disagree. Even if they raise some money, in terms of resources, I think the comparison with British Lions isn't accurate. Rather, them competing individually is more like Jamica/Trinidad/Barbados/Antigua etc. participating individually in internation cricket (instead of West Indies). Now if these countries would rather participate separately in international rugby, let them do it. More power to them. I just think the calendar would get too crowded to accomodate all of Pacific Islanders, Fiji/Samoa/Tonga individually, and each player's club commitments (Super-12/NPC/Japan/Zurich Premiership in England, wherever).