The 4-3-3

[flyerhawk]

So it looks like Arsene is serious about changing our shape. Given the players we have it seems almost like a no brainer.

But if Arsene does, in fact, plan on playing a 4-3-3 wouldn't pretty much ensure that we would not go after another DM?

[Rewinder]

We would definitely need another CM. Right now our first choice pairing is what? Cesc-Song-Denilson? That's really not good enough to take on the rest of the big 4, or even teams like Everton who are very strong physically in midfield. Nasri will be an option when he gets back, but we still need another starting quality CM who is fairly proficient at defense.

[The Angel]

I can see us playing this against weaker league opponents, but I doubt we'd play it in Europe.

4-3-3 is passe anyway, everyone knows that we should be moving to a 4-6-0 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/08/euro2008). ;)

[total_football]

I can see us playing this against weaker league opponents, but I doubt we'd play it in Europe.

4-3-3 is passe anyway, everyone knows that we should be moving to a 4-6-0 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/08/euro2008). ;)

4-6-0. Ah yes, the famous Steve Sampson World Cup '98 formation. The wonders that flow from a master tactician! :D

[ZIAD]

The only thing about the 4-3-3 while does Wenger insist on playing RVP in the middle and Bendter on the wing?

[Naushad78]

The only thing about the 4-3-3 while does Wenger insist on playing RVP in the middle and Bendter on the wing?

I was thinking the same thing until I saw the front 3 constantly interchanging. Very dynamic, very mobile, very fluid, keeps any defense on their toes.

My problem with the 4-3-3 is that for it to work effectively it needs an absolutely strong DM while allowing the other two CMs to move forward. Barca played the system to perfection in midfield last year with Iniesta and Xavi secured by Yaya behind them.

The problem with this formation is what happens against quality opposition? If it morps itself into a 4-5-1 then we suffer a big loss because we have two attacking strikers or advanced players who are then forced to play from midfield, with the top man getting very isolated and at most the Attacking midfielder in support(Cesc).

Albeit with different personel this is exactly what happened to us towards the end of last season when Cesc got hoplessly thrown into the hole. This must NOT happen at any cost and therefore the need for the dm who does the work else we end up playing two deep CMs protecting the defense and hence compromise our options.

If the 4-3-3 turns into a 4-2-3-1, we will not be as effective as we can be. But if it stays a 4-1-2-3, then our chances are bright. In any case, the intelligence and work ethic of our advanced three players will play a great role in its success. We won't be fussing around with this possession based play we've got so bored with. The ball will transfer from mid-field to attack faster and we will be more incisive. If we lose the ball in the opposition half, our shape should(in theory) allows us to get it back quicker, thereby placing less pressure on the defense.

It's a pity that Tomas won't be a mainstay in our midfield this year because I feel that he's far above Nasri in terms of final output ATM.

--------Back 4--------
World Class DM
---Tomas------Cesc
RVP/Theo--Bendy/Dudu--Shava/Jack

WOW!!

[flyerhawk]

Why won't Tomas be a mainstay in our midfield?

[Rewinder]

Like Wenger said, it's still another two months or so before we can declare victory in the battle for Rosicky.

[ZIAD]

Also on top of that the 4-4-2 depends a lot on overlapping full backs, something Sagna and Clichy are not that great at. A 4-3-3 system allows the full backs some breathing space and not be counted on to go forward every opportunity. Also it seems that Sagna is yet to find his crossing boots.

[thefoamroses]

While the 4-3-3 might initially seem a sacrifice of defensive girth in midfield, it may actually aid our key frailty.

With our pacey fullbacks expected to play in a more defensive position, occasionally rampaging forward to add to a front 5, our centre backs will have reduced pressure. Last season, late on in games, Gallas and Toure looked exhausted from all the instances they had to track back and cover long balls up the middle of the pitch. Having a more flat back four will reduce Gallas' and whomever partners him's energy expenditure.

I think our front five and back four are solid. It is the defensive mid still in doubt. Song can play that role, but not over 50 some games this season. He needs help, and I think its important we add another player with veteran presence there.

Wenger seems to think Vieira can do it. Makelele did it for Chelsea twice when they won the title. That is the standard we should compare Vieira to.

[thebigman]

4 3 3 allows us to play cesc in his proper position and press higher with more players

it seems like a good idea

[Scally]

Rafa has the right formula going forward but with the wrong wide players.

Mascherano/DM - protect the back 4
Alonso/Cesc - playmaker
Gerrard/Nasri/Rosicky - link man, goal threat

If 'Pool had our wingers i.e. Arshavin, Nasri, Rosicky type they may have won the league. David Silva would be a step in the right direction for them.

Enough about them though my point in that the balance of their middle 3 is spot on. A DM, Quaterback (I think - no idea about NFL) and a quality AM/SS.

I dont think a box-to-box is needed in a 3 man mid-field if everyone takes responsibility to press in the right area. You need a box-to-box in a 4-4-2 with a holding player. Thats why we have struggled with Cesc in there

[Rewinder]

Rafa has the right formula going forward but with the wrong wide players.

Mascherano/DM - protect the back 4
Alonso/Cesc - playmaker
Gerrard/Nasri/Rosicky - link man, goal threat

If 'Pool had our wingers i.e. Arshavin, Nasri, Rosicky type they may have won the league. David Silva would be a step in the right direction for them.

Enough about them though my point in that the balance of their middle 3 is spot on. A DM, Quaterback (I think - no idea about NFL) and a quality AM/SS.

I dont think a box-to-box is needed in a 3 man mid-field if everyone takes responsibility to press in the right area. You need a box-to-box in a 4-4-2 with a holding player. Thats why we have struggled with Cesc in there

Song-Cesc-Rosicky/Nasri may be a winning combination, but chances are one will be injured and the other is needed out wide. If we signed a wide player who tracked back, we wouldn't need a CM, or we sign a CM and leave Rosicky/Nasri to primarily fill in out wide.

[FabregasTED]

The 4-3-3 makes all the sense in the world, and I've been calling for it for at least a year.

Which is all the more reason I'm certain it won't happen.

[YankGooner]

If someone teaches Sagna proper crossing technique a 4-3-3 would be deadly.

I'm seriously shocked that Arsene or Pat Rice has not made Sagna stay after training and teach him to drive the ball across with his laces instead of his persistant inside the foot/curve cross that never gets any height and gives our strikers no chance to do anything.

If he learns how to cross we would maybe have 2-3 more legit scoring chances a game.

[Scally]

Song-Cesc-Rosicky/Nasri may be a winning combination, but chances are one will be injured and the other is needed out wide. If we signed a wide player who tracked back, we wouldn't need a CM, or we sign a CM and leave Rosicky/Nasri to primarily fill in out wide.

We have Eduardo and RVP who can also play out wide in a 4-3-3. Wilshire will get chances too after his showing at the week end. We are stacked in the top 3 positions.

I still want the elusive DM as cover/starter though for Song.

[Sean P.]

We have Eduardo and RVP who can also play out wide in a 4-3-3. Wilshire will get chances too after his showing at the week end. We are stacked in the top 3 positions.



Vela and Walcott can play wide in the 4-3-3 as well.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the 4-3-3 is the one formation that Diaby actually fits in (as the free-role CM next to Cesc).

[The Jitty Slitter]

viva la revolution

[Naushad78]

While the 4-3-3 might initially seem a sacrifice of defensive girth in midfield, it may actually aid our key frailty.

With our pacey fullbacks expected to play in a more defensive position, occasionally rampaging forward to add to a front 5, our centre backs will have reduced pressure. Last season, late on in games, Gallas and Toure looked exhausted from all the instances they had to track back and cover long balls up the middle of the pitch. Having a more flat back four will reduce Gallas' and whomever partners him's energy expenditure.

I think our front five and back four are solid. It is the defensive mid still in doubt. Song can play that role, but not over 50 some games this season. He needs help, and I think its important we add another player with veteran presence there.

Wenger seems to think Vieira can do it. Makelele did it for Chelsea twice when they won the title. That is the standard we should compare Vieira to.

Not quite IMO. Viera was a complete box-box midfielder who had amazing defensive attributes. Makelele was an excellent reader of the game and brilliant in the tackle. Viera is nowhere near the box-box player that he was and acquiring him and asking him to fill a stop-gap role as a purely DMid and make a 'psychological' impact is a terrible sign of 'ambition' from the manager.
I'd rather we just buy a classic dm and get on with it.

[Naushad78]

If someone teaches Sagna proper crossing technique a 4-3-3 would be deadly.

I'm seriously shocked that Arsene or Pat Rice has not made Sagna stay after training and teach him to drive the ball across with his laces instead of his persistant inside the foot/curve cross that never gets any height and gives our strikers no chance to do anything.

If he learns how to cross we would maybe have 2-3 more legit scoring chances a game.

Why would you be shocked when we make the same mistakes year upon year, all over the pitch? Set-pieces, poor crossing, tactical fumbles, fitting square pegs in round holes, leaving key areas on the pitch un-addressed.
Not me.