The Importance of College Soccer

[kyledane]

Originally posted by Craig P
I'd be surprised if it winds up much different than it is in the other two North American sports with strong development paths both out of high school and through college. That is, the hottest of prospects will be better off going pro early, but college will remain a viable development route for the late bloomers and others who aren't ready to be pros when they finish high school.
Craig, you seem to have missed one of the first rules of BigSoccer.com - that is that you must ignore any and all evidence that comes from other sports, or should I say "hand" sports. Before I came to this board, I had no idea that skill with the hands is fundamentally different from skill with the feet. But now I understand how this one simple fact, if bought into with one's full heart, can make one impervious to even the most rational, logical argument based on all the other evidence available in the context of this country of ours.

[BenReilly]

Originally posted by thacharger


I think he is just giving his future idea of American soccer. I dont think it will ever happen becuase American kids are told to play many sports when they are young.

You're right. Nor is there anything wrong with this. Plenty of athletes are very good at several sports.

[BenReilly]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


We'll see. The best players we have now are ones who have spent their whole lives playing soccer like Reyna, Mathis and Donovan and not dabbling in other sports. Twellman may be an exception, but I will continue to say that Twellman would have been even better had he not dabbled in baseball.

The kids who play soccer their whole lives from 8-10 through their teenage years are the ones who are going to be the best players.

This is total nonsense.

[BenReilly]

Originally posted by prk166


Well, first off that is given a relatively new pro soccer environment in the US. If the MLS is around in a decade, I have a hard time seeing more than a handful of players coming thru from the college ranks.

At that, if anyone wants to have a chance at being the best of the best, they need to go pro in their mid-teens. And they need to take some risks during their careers. For example, how much better of a player could someone like Eddie Pope be today if he had gone over to play at PSV instead of staying at home with DC United? Where would he be today if he had decided to forgoe college and go get involved in a youth system in Europe?

He might have been as good as Jovan. What a pity. Pope is a damned good player and I sure as hell wouldn't go want to go back in time and take any risks.

A large number of players will come from college even if MLS is around for 10 or 20 years because there will be plenty of college players that were not noticed at younger ages.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by BenReilly


This is total nonsense.

Let's say Twellman split seasons between baseball and soccer for 5 years during his teenage years. Let's be conservative and say he missed 4-5 months of soccer play per year. That's 20-25 months of playing time missed--or close to two years at an age that is pretty crucial to skill development. Twellman has pretty good athletic ability so it hasn't hurt him much. But other players? Who knows. It can't be optimal IMHO.

DMB played basketball, but he quit that around 14 or 15, no? Of course sometimes his touch shows that he played basketball and soccer instead of just playing soccer:)

Mathis played pick up games with his brothers, Reyna never dabbled in other sports AFAIK, nor did Donovan.

I'm talking mainly about in the early to mid teenage years where players are going to have to choose their paths.

Chris Albright played football for awhile and ran track IIRC. It shows too. At the youth level all he did was run past people because he was so much faster than everyone else. Fast forward to MLS and it's more sophisticated than that.

Most players should go to college if they've got the chance. Like mentioned, college will be good for late bloomers,players unsure whether or not they want to play professionally, etc. And it's great that lots of these college guys have caught on to playing in the PDL in the off-season. The elite player who knows what he wants should try to find other environments.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
Here's a potential team of 4-year college players:
Keller
Suarez, Pope, Gibbs, Vanney
Mastroeni
Sanneh, Lewis
Mathis
McBride, Razov


Now, I could just as easily put together a solid and competitive national team of Americans who played no college soccer and one with players who played 1-3 years of college soccer as well. But that's not the point.

That's a pretty solid team. I think if MLS got it's scouting down to a better science they can better predict who is going to be successful at the next level. I mean, does Ajax really have some kind of magic potion? All they do is follow a set of criteria that they have developed. Obviously it works.


Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
The point is that playing college soccer isn't going to prevent top players from becoming good players. Migt it stunt or delay their development? Probably, but it doesn't ruin a player either..

I've backed off of using the stunting word. It doesn't allow them to develop as quickly. But you hit the nail on the head. Most guys aren't ready for MLS right out of HS and they need to be playing on reserve teams.


Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
I think history has shown that players who have 1-3 years of college soccer have a smoother transition to the pros and a better chance of playing time than those who sign out of HS. See Ben Olsen, Josh Wolff, Nick Garcia, Nick Rimando, Carlos Bocanegra, Ross Paule, Dan Califf, Chris Carrieri, Kyle Martino, Brad Davis, Kelly Gray et all. If I were MLS, I would make signing the top collegeiate sophomores every year one of biggest priorities. Of course, if I were MLS, I'd do a lot of things differently.

All but Paule and Carrieri from this list were youth national teamers. That plays a big role in their development too IMHO and can't be discounted.

[Frank Cunha]

Best hockey the University of Duluth.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by beineke


Other exceptions include JOB,

I agree that there comes a time when a kid must focus intensively on soccer. However, most American soccer players will continue to play multiple sports as teenagers, especially if they're cut out to be central defenders. Carlos Bocanegra, Pope's soon-to-be partner in the back, was mostly a football player until college. He's another guy who would've ended up in D1 football if not for a strong local college soccer team.

JOB may have dabbled in other sports, but he stopped at around 15. People in this thread are talking about players who dabble in other sports all the way up to 18 yrs old etc. I just speak in optimal terms--if a player wants to maximize his soccer ability, then he needs to play soccer.

[beineke]

A comment for those who suggest that the lion's share of US-born MLSers will soon skip college. MLS is currently in its 7th season, and there are (by my count) 19 US-born players who skipped college. Several of these players, however, are destined to leave for Europe in the next few seasons (Donovan, Quaranta, Beasley, etc.), while others may not survive in MLS (Saavedra, Burciaga, Trembly).
Given these impending departures and the trickle of incoming talent (~3 players per year), these numbers are unlikely to increase much in the near term.

One thing to notice, however, is that the players who skip college are coming disproportionately from ethnic minority groups -- Gomez, Burciaga, Corrales, Saavedra, Beasley, E. Johnson, Howard, Buddle. If MLS is going to reduce its dependence on college players, it needs youth programs that successfullly reach out to these groups.

[superdave]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
Four year college players will probably make up 5% or less of the future pool.
That may very well be true, but as Sandon notes, the "center of gravity" for the foreseeable future is very likely to be guys who have played 1-3 years of college soccer.

[superdave]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
DMB played basketball, but he quit that around 14 or 15, no? Of course sometimes his touch shows that he played basketball and soccer instead of just playing soccer:)
And his overall athleticism shows it, too. :)

On a more serious note...we all need to remember these are human beings, not a bunch of electrons on a Gameboy. They might get burned out, they might develop the social habits of a John Terry. Or a Maradona.

Despite the "flaws" in how DMB developed his skills, he's still pretty damn good, and only 20 years old. Who knows what will happen over the next 5 years?

[vabeacher]

I think the college game needs some changes, but it can remain an important piece of the US soccer picture. College players just need more game exposure than their 20 (or so) NCAA game schedule. Let the college players play as unpaid players on A-league teams. Look to the women's game as an example, the W-league has a bunch of college players. Of course they've scheduled their season to end in early August to allow college players to get back to their schools.

Also we should allow top NCAA teams to enter the US Open Cup. If it's truly a competition for professional and amateur teams, it seems like an ideal fit for college teams. Use last seasons top 4 or 8 teams from division 1 and fit them into the Open Cup brackets somehow.

[eric_appleby]

Originally posted by vabeacher
College players just need more game exposure than their 20 (or so) NCAA game schedule


That's happening now.
Most of the players in the PDL (4th division) are college players. It's a good setup. Nate Jaqua? Univ of Portland played in the PDL championship game against Cape Cod.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by vabeacher
I think the college game needs some changes, but it can remain an important piece of the US soccer picture. College players just need more game exposure than their 20 (or so) NCAA game schedule. Let the college players play as unpaid players on A-league teams. Look to the women's game as an example, the W-league has a bunch of college players. Of course they've scheduled their season to end in early August to allow college players to get back to their schools.

Also we should allow top NCAA teams to enter the US Open Cup. If it's truly a competition for professional and amateur teams, it seems like an ideal fit for college teams. Use last seasons top 4 or 8 teams from division 1 and fit them into the Open Cup brackets somehow.

NCAA does things for the women's game that it won't do for the men's game for some reason. But you also have to take into account that the women's game isn't as developed as the men even though they are champions. If men's college players could play on MLS teams not many would be able to handle the MLS level at all. It's generally two levels up from college soccer depending on the school.....which is another reason that we need reserve teams.

From the success we've seen from the U17s it looks like the years from 15-17 is just as if not more important than years 18-21.

[GoHawks4]

Originally posted by vabeacher
Also we should allow top NCAA teams to enter the US Open Cup. If it's truly a competition for professional and amateur teams, it seems like an ideal fit for college teams. Use last seasons top 4 or 8 teams from division 1 and fit them into the Open Cup brackets somehow.

This is a great idea! And this is coming from the guy who's team was eliminated by a damn A-League squad. Well done.

[kb]

Originally posted by vabeacher
Also we should allow top NCAA teams to enter the US Open Cup. If it's truly a competition for professional and amateur teams, it seems like an ideal fit for college teams. Use last seasons top 4 or 8 teams from division 1 and fit them into the Open Cup brackets somehow.

This is an interesting idea, but i have to believe that the NCAA, with its myriad of regulations - who you can play for, against, and limitations on lengths of season, would make this impossible

[The Wanderer]

We're talking about the NCAA here. They don't give a rat's arse about men's soccer and they won't until they have to or it starts taking in big bucks. It's a shame they have a three to four month season and non-FIFA regulations. But getting them to change is a lot like trying to get blood from a stone.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by superdave

And his overall athleticism shows it, too. :)


Yeah, playing basketball makes you more athletic, right? :) If that were truen then a lot of the players I saw at this youth tournament last weekend need to start playing basketball, because they were quite slow and uncoordinated.

[eagleterp]

as far as the college level of play goes, won't the logic that says mls' quality will keep improving also apply to the quality of college play?

in other words, won't colleges have more depth of talent than before? the way i see it (and you're going to hate the comparison), it'll all even out eventually like the way baseball is. sure players leave from high school and most of the really great prospects sign with the pros then, but there's still a number of players coming from colleges.

is college close to the professional level? no, but (like those who make the argument for donovan to stay in mls a little longer) that doesn't mean players won't be able to develop their games there.

[nancyb]

Originally posted by thacharger


I think he is just giving his future idea of American soccer. I dont think it will ever happen becuase American kids are told to play many sports when they are young.

Well, the travel teams expect the players to play Spring, Winter and Fall, with camp in Summer. Some kids play multiple sports in a season, but at higher levels of soccer, it's hard to.