Spl - Old Firm

[EAZZY]

:)
How would the old firm fans feel about leaving the SPL?
Would it be goods for them and more important the other 10 teams in the league.

[Gordon EF]

"Would it be good for them?"

Depends where they go.

"and for everyone else"

A big, definate, YES.

[Catfish]

I completely agree and the only logical place for them is the EPL, but what if they get relegated? What happens then? Do you honestly think 2 English clubs are going to be willing giving up tons of money so Celtic and Rangers could join the Prem??? I think not. I wish there was revenue sharing in the Scottish Prem., it would boost the other clubs up and make the league more competitive.

[Chris M]

Why should they be allowed to join the English leagues and go straight into the Premiership or Division One, while any English team would have to join their local league and work their way up?

[Caesar]

Why should they be allowed to join the English leagues and go straight into the Premiership or Division One, while any English team would have to join their local league and work their way up?
Because of the money involved. But stress less - it's not going to happen.

But in answer to the original question, a big definite YES - joining the EPL would turn the OF into football superpowers, and it would return the SPL to something resembling a competition.

[Chris M]

It just annoys me when you have people like Dermot Desmond going on like the OF have some sort of divine right to play in the Premiership regardless of the wishes of the English teams and authorities.

[Wide Boy]

It just annoys me when you have people like Dermot Desmond going on like the OF have some sort of divine right to play in the Premiership regardless of the wishes of the English teams and authorities.

I agree entirely. I have not heard or read a single coherent reason why the English clubs would want either OF club in their league.

The stadia for EPL games are already filled to the level of around 94% capacity. Even if you swallow the idea that there would never be an empty seat where the OF played, the financial difference to English clubs would be marginal.

[Holyjoe]

Why should they be allowed to join the English leagues and go straight into the Premiership or Division One, while any English team would have to join their local league and work their way up?

Basically the Premiership could accept that tiny new English team if they wanted to - because the Premiership is a separate body from the Football League then they can admit whomever they want to their league (as long as they're regulated by the English FA). They have a reciprocal agreement with the Football League though that the top teams in Division 1 and the bottom teams in the Premiership will change status at the end of each season, though I think it might be possible for them to add any team they wanted - say, for example, the team that finish 14th in Division 2 if they had a provision with the EFL for that, or just admit any non league team they want.
Rangers and Celtic would fall under the latter category if they ever were able to take English FA membership.

I'm going by what the Scottish set-up is like, however I'm assuming it's got a fair number of similarities to the English set-up.

[Wide Boy]

Basically the Premiership could accept that tiny new English team if they wanted to - because the Premiership is a separate body from the Football League then they can admit whomever they want to their league (as long as they're regulated by the English FA). They have a reciprocal agreement with the Football League though that the top teams in Division 1 and the bottom teams in the Premiership will change status at the end of each season, though I think it might be possible for them to add any team they wanted - say, for example, the team that finish 14th in Division 2 if they had a provision with the EFL for that, or just admit any non league team they want.
Rangers and Celtic would fall under the latter category if they ever were able to take English FA membership.

I'm going by what the Scottish set-up is like, however I'm assuming it's got a fair number of similarities to the English set-up.


I think you're right that the EPL could do this, but the repercussions would be enormous.

* The Football League could retaliate by refusing to accept any teams relegated from the EPL.

* What would be the status of the OF teams be re UEFA competitions? Could they represent England (don't forget, the responsibility for entering teams still lies with the national FAs)? In the old days of the Cup-Winners' Cup, English teams which won the Welsh Cup (e.g. Shrewsbury and Hereford) weren't allowed into the ECWC - the place went to the beaten finalists if they were Welsh.


I continue to maintain that the whole issue is hypothetical, however. There simply is no significant benefit to the English clubs if they admit the OF into the EPL.

[Gordon EF]

An old-firm fan would say that the EPL would benefit from increased TV revenue. (Maybe slightly but I hardly think they're struggling at the moment). And that given time, the OF would become major clubs (Probably true, they have a huge fan base, larger then most English teams with exception of Man Utd probably, and increased TV revenue, they would be able to attract much better players and become major clubs in World Football. You can see how this would benefit the league but how would Liverpoll, Newcastle etc feel about this?)

I think that if the EPL and the EFA were to agree to this, it would happen and the logistics would be sorted out. However, neither seem to be interseted so all these points are pretty moot.

p.s. Please take them, we don't want them any more.

[-cman-]

Jayzus.

Everyone repeat after me.

NOT. EVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

MUST. REFORM. SPL. REVENUE. SHARING.

Repeat from top.

[aloisius]

I agree that Rangers and Celtic will never join the Premiership. What I think is possible is the merger of the English and Scotish league systems. That is also very unlikley, but it's certainly likelier than revenue sharing.

[Gordon EF]

I agree that Rangers and Celtic will never join the Premiership. What I think is possible is the merger of the English and Scotish league systems. That is also very unlikley, but it's certainly likelier than revenue sharing.

That has to be a joke dosen't it aloisius???????

[aloisius]

What is it that you find laughable?

I just think Rangers and Celtic will never ( Never meaning in the next like 50 years) be able able to move south just by themselves. UEFA wouldn't allow them to play in European competition.

On the other hand if UEFA one day softens it's stance on countries forming joint leagues then a merger could be possible. I also think the chances for that are minimal in the next ten years. But it's still more probable than just OF switching the league

[Gordon EF]

What is it that you find laughable?

I just think Rangers and Celtic will never ( Never meaning in the next like 50 years) be able able to move south just by themselves. UEFA wouldn't allow them to play in European competition.

On the other hand if UEFA one day softens it's stance on countries forming joint leagues then a merger could be possible. I also think the chances for that are minimal in the next ten years. But it's still more probable than just OF switching the league

I agree that Rangers and Celtic are incredibly unlikely to join the English league.

The Scottish and English leagues will NEVER merge. By that I mean N-E-V-E-R. Nobody in Scotland wants that and I'm sure nobody in England wants that. Also, there is no possible reason for it to happen, other than foreign FAs who dislike the UK having 4 independent Football Associaltions and league set-ups.

That raises another point, joining of the leagues would undoubtedly lead to a UK national team, which not one sane person in the UK wants.

Rangers and Celtic want to go to England. England does not want them, or any other Scottish team. The rest of Scotland do not want to merge with England but they would not ming the OF moving out.

The only possible solution to this is to keep the status quo.

[aloisius]

I don't agree with the link between having a national team and a national league. Austria and Switzerland wanted to form a joint league , and of course keep separate national teams. UEFA didn't allow this and that's what i'm against. If two or more neighbouring countries want to form joint leagues whilst keeping their separate national teams, they should be allowed to do so.

I understand that both you and the english want to keep your own leagues. Is that partly based in a view that having a separate league is a part of being a distinct, independent nation?

What's your opinion then, if any on The Gaellic rugby league( is that what it's called?)?

[Gordon EF]

I agree that if two countries really want to join leagues, they should be allowed to do so and also to keep seperate national team.

I suppose that is part of it but it's just a small part. I can only really speak for Scotland but in my opinion, Scottish football (below the SPL) is in a very healthy state. Our 1st, 2nd and 3rd divisions are some of the most competitive and exciting leagues in Europe just know and most people are happy the way things are. The biggest problem is the uncopetitiveness of the SPL. And this can't be solved by merging with England. But of course, the Scots and the English view themselves as independent nations and most want to keep as much independence as possible (especially in Scotland).

You mean the "Celtic League" (pronounced "Keltic"). That comprises Welsh, Irish teams and the three Scottish 'super districts'. Scotland still kept it's original Rugby leagues. The 'super districts' (Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scottish Borders) were created to join the Celtic league.

Whilst the Scotland rugby team has always been one of the best international sides, I think the club sides have always been inferior to English, Irish, Welsh and French clubs. This is because the league was amature, until recently, and most of the teams are form small Border towns. (Rugby is really a Border sport, everywhere else is football). And most top Scottish players play in the English league. So the circumstances are different but I think the Celtic league is a good idea.

Back to the origianal point. Scotland has 42 senior teams, considering we are a country of just 5 million, this is a lot of teams. Only 23 of these teams are 'full-time'. So we have 19 'part-time' teams. England (a country of 50 million) has 92 senior teams, all of which are 'full-time'.

Also most Scottish teams are from relatively small towns. For example, Dunfermline, who are 4th in the SPL is a town of less than 50,000. Whilst Carlisle (in England) who have just been relegated from the English league altogether is a town of 100,000. So, although Scottish teams with few resources can have, relatively, very good teams compared to English sides with more resources, when they are in seperate leagues. If Scottish teams were to join the English league, there is a danger that many would be swamped.

It's a complex issue and I've already waffled enough. Phew!