Canadian Football League

[Gordon]

Originally posted by Tick


Do Canadian colleges ever play against American colleges? I remember seeing U of Alaska-Anchorage's hockey team play a couple of Canadian teams in the 80s, but can't remember ever hearing about international games in any other sport.

Pretty much in every sport except football. Simon Fraser BC used to be a member of the, oh what was it N.I.A.I (?) or something like...not the NCAA but another. They would play football against NCAA Div one powers like Montana etc. Volleyball and hockey are quite prominent as the top ranked Canadian teams and the top ranked American teams are roughly equivalent. I know the U of Saskatchewan has develped rivalries with UCLA, Pepperdine and UC - Santa Barbara in Volley ball.

[Gordon]

Originally posted by Tick
As an American, I have no idea what's going on in the CFL at any time, but I have some curiosity about the players, since some of them are former US college stars.

So, who's up there?

Starting QB, RB, and top WR for each team. Sound off!

Saskatchewan Roughriders

QB Nealon Greene - Clemson
RB Corey Holmes - Mississippi Valley State
WR Quincy Jackson - Alabama (arguable as there are 3 roughly equivalent Wideouts in Saskatchewan).

[Daniel from Montréal]

Alouettes:

QB: Calvillo - ?
RB: Phillips - Nebraska
WR: Woodcock?

I haven't really followed them...

[hobbes]

I’ll try to do the rest of the league:

BC: QB: Damon Allen (Cal St. Fullerton)
WR: Geroy Simon (Maryland)
Alfred Jackson (SDSU)
RB: Sean Millington (Simon Fraser in Vancouver).

Calgary: QB: Marcus Crandell (East Carolina)
WR: Travis Moore (Ball St.)
RB: Kelvin Anderson (SE Missouri St.)

Sask: QB: Nealon Green (Clemson)
WR: Derrick Armstrong (Arkansas-Monticello)
RB: Sedric Shaw (Iowa)
Corey Holmes (Mississippi Valley St.)

Winnipeg: QB: Khari Jones (Cal Davis)
RB: Charles Roberts (Sacremento St.)
WR: Arland Bruce III (Minnesota)
Milt Stegall (Miami, OH)

Hamilton: QB: Danny McManus (Florida St.)
WR: Darren Flutie (Boston College)
RB: Archie Amerson (Northern Arizona)
Troy Davis (Iowa State)

Toronto: QB: Michael Bishop (Kansas State)
WR: Darrell Mitchell (Texas Tech)
RB: Juan Johnson (Utah)

Ottawa: QB: Chuck Clements (Houston)
QB: Dan Crowley (Towson St.)
WR: Jimmy Oliver (TCU)
Andre Kirwan (Stanford)
RB: Darren Davis (Iowa St.)

Montreal: QB: Anthony Calvillo (Utah St.)
WR: Pat Woodcock (Syracuse)
Ben Cahoon (BYU)
RB: Lawrence Phillips (Nebraska)
Mike Pringle (Cal St. Fullerton)


regarding Canadian QBs, there have been a few decent ones in recent years — they've just not played in Canada. Jesse Palmer and Mark Rypien both partially debunked the myth that we can't produce QBs. I think one of the main reasons why we don't have as many QBs as we should is pure geography.

First players don't start as young as they do in the US and when they do start they have a really wide field to deal with, which makes throwing outs very difficult for younger kids. Factor in colder weather earlier and the importance on the running game increases.

The thing about Schneider and Leason is that by time they reached their peak as college QBs, there were already old. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Schneider played a few years of junior before joining the Huskies. Leason had a full junior career, then went to U of C, then transfered back to Regina and was what 28 last year?

I guess I should back up and explain. In Canada we have junior football. You have four years of eligibility starting with the year you should have graduated from high school. It's generally second tier to University football, but many players play a year or two then make the jump. I guess it's a little like JuCo.

Once you get to University ball, you still have five years of eligibility no matter how old you are. So you get guys like Leason who played eight years of post-secondary ball.

The other thing to consider about Leason is that he needed time to develop and blossom as a QB since he's from Hudson Bay and they play 9-man.

That being said I think that football is becomming a year round sport in this country and with the huge surge in popularity in Quebec, the domestic talent will get better which certainly can't hurt the CFL.

cheers,
hobbes

[DoyleG]

The CJFL deosn't have the impact it would seem to have. The Ontario confrence has only 5 teams, 1 which is in Quebec. Edmonton has 2 of the 7 PFC squads. Most of the BCFC squads are within Vancouver.

And for those in Sasaktchwan. YOU LOST!!!

[hobbes]

I'm not too sure what impact you think the CJFL has or seems to have. It has 19 teams and grooms a lot of pretty good players for the CIS. No more, no less. It's obviously second tier to the CIS. I wasn't trying to make it sound important, just pointing out that in the case of the two quarterbacks mentioned their CJFL experience made them pretty old by time they were done their CIS careers.

Yup Edmonton won. Well played, you definitely deserved the vistory. If Fleming was on his game it wouldn't have been close.

But as was my original point: Are you the undisputed best team in the CFL? No. Will you beat us should we meet in the playoffs? Not sure. Definitely not a guarantee.

Oh and it's spelled S-A-S-K-A-T-C-H-E-W-A-N Mr. Doyle.

cheers,
hobbes

[Krammerhead]

Originally posted by DoyleG
The CJFL deosn't have the impact it would seem to have. The Ontario confrence has only 5 teams, 1 which is in Quebec. Edmonton has 2 of the 7 PFC squads. Most of the BCFC squads are within Vancouver.

And for those in Sasaktchwan. YOU LOST!!!

Most of the BCFC teams are within Vancouver? Do you know your geography?

Victoria is on the island. Okanagan and Kamloops are in the interior. Chilliwack is 90 minutes away from Vancouver by car. Perhaps you can list South Fraser, Abbotsford and Tri-City as being in the "Greater Vancouver" area, but definitely not "within Vancouver".

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Krammerhead


Most of the BCFC teams are within Vancouver? Do you know your geography?

Victoria is on the island. Okanagan and Kamloops are in the interior. Chilliwack is 90 minutes away from Vancouver by car. Perhaps you can list South Fraser, Abbotsford and Tri-City as being in the "Greater Vancouver" area, but definitely not "within Vancouver".
How can you tell?

Is their a ditch that separates the communities?

[Krammerhead]

Originally posted by DoyleG

How can you tell?

Is their a ditch that separates the communities?

No, there are plenty of miles that seperate the communities.

Don't figure you'd understand, you live in Edmonton, and I live in North Vancouver. Suffice to say you haven't go a clue. The term "Greater Vancouver" covers a great distance. For instance Surrey is lumped into the "Greater Vancouver" area. Yet the city of Surrey has a population of 350000 alone. City of Burnaby also is part of "greater Vancouver" (right next to Vancouver City-where Swangard Stadium is located) and has a population of 197292. The city of Vancouver has a population 560000+.

The term may be "greater Vancouver" but they are all seperate cities. Hence your comment about all of the teams in the BCFC being within Vancouver is wrong.

You're wrong. Deal with it.

[hobbes]

I wasn't even going to get into the 'all the teams based in Vancouver' claim, but when you consider it took me about two hours to drive from North Vancouver to Richmond they're pretty disctinct communities (and they feel like distinct communities). Never mind that Surrey's even further and many teams (Victoria, Kamloops, Okanagan and Valley Huskers) aren't in Vancouver no matter how loose your definition is.

Why don't you like the CJFL? The Edmonton Huskies are even playing really well. Another team for you to brag about. . .

Oh and great job by the Esks catching that woman from the building.

cheers,
hobbes

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by hobbes
I wasn't even going to get into the 'all the teams based in Vancouver' claim, but when you consider it took me about two hours to drive from North Vancouver to Richmond they're pretty disctinct communities (and they feel like distinct communities). Never mind that Surrey's even further and many teams (Victoria, Kamloops, Okanagan and Valley Huskers) aren't in Vancouver no matter how loose your definition is.

I said most, not all. Since most of those people in "Greater Vancouver" work in vancouver itself, and they rely on the asistance of the big city. They might as well consider it to be part of Vancouver.

Originally posted by hobbes
Why don't you like the CJFL? The Edmonton Huskies are even playing really well. Another team for you to brag about. . .

No one follows the team since they switch their home matches from one venue to another. Not to mention they will crack when the playoffs come. The only intrest with them is the 50/50 draws at the Esks games.

[Fulham9]

Originally posted by Gordon


Pretty much in every sport except football. Simon Fraser BC used to be a member of the, oh what was it N.I.A.I (?) or something like...not the NCAA but another. They would play football against NCAA Div one powers like Montana etc.

Simon Fraser was a member of the NAIA, which is mainly made up of small private colleges. It played American football in a conference with small colleges in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle Pacific, Pacific Lutheran, Western Washington, Linfield, some others). The other schools in the conference made the jump to NCAA Div. III a few years ago, and I don't know if Simon Fraser is still playing American football or not.

[Fulham9]

Originally posted by hobbes

regarding Canadian QBs, there have been a few decent ones in recent years — they've just not played in Canada. Jesse Palmer and Mark Rypien both partially debunked the myth that we can't produce QBs. I think one of the main reasons why we don't have as many QBs as we should is pure geography.

First players don't start as young as they do in the US and when they do start they have a really wide field to deal with, which makes throwing outs very difficult for younger kids. Factor in colder weather earlier and the importance on the running game increases.


Interesting, but I would have thought the opposite. I would have thought that Canada would have an advantage over the US in producing quarterbacks because of the greater emphasis on passing in Canadian football. For instance, Texas has a very good track record of producing players at all positions except quarterback. Texas high school football is traditionally a running game, in contrast to places like Pennsylvania and the West Coast, which produce more quarterbacks.

[Gordon]

Originally posted by Fulham9


Simon Fraser was a member of the NAIA, which is mainly made up of small private colleges. It played American football in a conference with small colleges in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle Pacific, Pacific Lutheran, Western Washington, Linfield, some others). The other schools in the conference made the jump to NCAA Div. III a few years ago, and I don't know if Simon Fraser is still playing American football or not.

Simon Fraser is now a member of Canada West (CIAU). Current Standings at this link:

http://www.universitysport.ca/football/football_stand.asp?file=league_sp3_l154_s132

[Tick]

Originally posted by Fulham9


Interesting, but I would have thought the opposite. I would have thought that Canada would have an advantage over the US in producing quarterbacks because of the greater emphasis on passing in Canadian football. For instance, Texas has a very good track record of producing players at all positions except quarterback. Texas high school football is traditionally a running game, in contrast to places like Pennsylvania and the West Coast, which produce more quarterbacks. [/B]

I wasn't surprised at all... I grew up in Anchorage, Alaska, and I've seen it there. All champions in Alaska run the ball, usually in the wishbone or option. Occasionally, a team will go pass-wacky and roll out the run-n-shoot and do pretty well for the first half of the season. However, by the time the playoff come around, it's below freezing, there's snow on the ground, and nobody can catch the ball. The running teams whoop up on the passing teams.

So, running is the emphasis, and I think it's almost totally due to the climate. Makes sense that it would be the same in most of Canada.

[Tick]

Originally posted by hobbes
RB: Sedric Shaw (Iowa)
WR: Darren Flutie (Boston College)
Troy Davis (Iowa State)
Toronto: QB: Michael Bishop (Kansas State)
RB: Darren Davis (Iowa St.)
RB: Lawrence Phillips (Nebraska)


These are the guys I remember. If you can't tell, I went to a Big 12 school, which is why I recognize their players more than others.

How's Bishop doing for Toronto? He was very exciting in college, and I thought he had a good shot at playing some for New England as a wildcard player who might catch, run, and pass a bit... but he stayed at straight QB and got passed up by Brady.

Also, I thought that I read something about Phillips leaving Montreal over a contract dispute or something... I take it that they worked things out?

[Fulham9]

Originally posted by Tick
So, running is the emphasis, and I think it's almost totally due to the climate. Makes sense that it would be the same in most of Canada.

It still doesn't make sense to me that a team could base its offense on the running game in three-down football.

[Gordon]

Originally posted by Fulham9


It still doesn't make sense to me that a team could base its offense on the running game in three-down football.

Perhaps not, but it is true. In High School I was my team's leading reciever with a mighty 13 receptions over the course of an 8 game season. All told, we attempted 67 pass plays, completing 30. Relative to my previous post on training and playing time, Grade 10 was the first year I played any type of organized football. That was fairly typical, and still is, of Canadian HS football. There are some junior "Pop Warner" type of leagues, but they are not that big in terms of Number of players.

[Fulham9]

Originally posted by Gordon

Perhaps not, but it is true. In High School I was my team's leading reciever with a mighty 13 receptions over the course of an 8 game season. All told, we attempted 67 pass plays, completing 30.


Just curious, was your HS team able to move the chains doing that? It sounds like Canadian HS football must feature a lot of punting. Have the HS leagues ever considered going to 4-down football?


Relative to my previous post on training and playing time, Grade 10 was the first year I played any type of organized football. That was fairly typical, and still is, of Canadian HS football. There are some junior "Pop Warner" type of leagues, but they are not that big in terms of Number of players.

I think the boom in junior football is a relatively recent phenomenon. When I was growing up (1980's), there was only one "Pop Warner" type league for all of Houston. Youth football was and is far outnumbered by youth soccer. Most people here don't start playing organized football until 7th grade. Or 9th grade, if your mom doesn't let you play middle school football.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Fulham9

Just curious, was your HS team able to move the chains doing that? It sounds like Canadian HS football must feature a lot of punting. Have the HS leagues ever considered going to 4-down football?
[/B]

The only time you will likely see Canadian Schools and 4 downs is if a team travels south to play a game. One HS here, M.E. Lazerte, played a California school several years back.