According to official interpretations, when should offside be called?

[PVancouver]

An attacker on the left side runs on to a through ball coming from a teammate in midfield. In order to reach the ball, he will have to run 30 yards down field. Unfortunately, he mistimes his run, and is in an offside position by about two feet when the ball is played. A teammate also near the offside line but on the right side of the field shouts out “don’t play the ball, you were offside!”. The player follows the path of the ball until it comes to a complete stop. The player stops one foot from the ball but does not ever even pretend to kick it. Meanwhile, a defender comes over to clear the ball out, and kicks it into touch. Keep in mind that FIFA Circular 874 states:

How should we interpret "interfering with play"? PLAYING OR TOUCHING a ball passed or touched by a team-mate.

According to FIFA’s interpretation, when should the attacker be whistled for offside?

[PVancouver]

Please don't forget to vote in this poll as well as the other poll. They are NOT the same poll!

Thanks.

[Crowdie]

Is this open to international opinions? I know what is being instructed in the US (or appears to be from all the posts from US referees on offside that I have seen) and this differs from what is instructed down here in New Zealand. If you follow the letter of the law with circular 874 you get yet another answer. Which one do you want?

Crowdie

[Alberto]

An attacker on the left side runs on to a through ball coming from a teammate in midfield. In order to reach the ball, he will have to run 30 yards down field. Unfortunately, he mistimes his run, and is in an offside position by about two feet when the ball is played. A teammate also near the offside line but on the right side of the field shouts out “don’t play the ball, you were offside!”. The player follows the path of the ball until it comes to a complete stop. The player stops one foot from the ball but does not ever even pretend to kick it. Meanwhile, a defender comes over to clear the ball out, and kicks it into touch. Keep in mind that FIFA Circular 874 states:

How should we interpret "interfering with play"? PLAYING OR TOUCHING a ball passed or touched by a team-mate.

According to FIFA’s interpretation, when should the attacker be whistled for offside?

Paul, as soon as the attacker in the offside position made a play by running to the ball the flag should come up. He was in an offside position and was gaining an advantage even if 30 yards away. Just because he did not touch the ball does not mean he did not gain an advantage from his offside position at the time the ball was initially played by a teammate.

[jkc313]

Paul, as soon as the attacker in the offside position made a play by running to the ball the flag should come up. He was in an offside position and was gaining an advantage even if 30 yards away. Just because he did not touch the ball does not mean he did not gain an advantage from his offside position at the time the ball was initially played by a teammate.

Disagree. If he's 30 yards away from the ball when he makes his initial run, the flag stays down until it's apparent he's able to influence play. In a recent question on the USSF site, Jim Allen stated that "gains an advantage" only applies to rebounded shots on goal. We need to evaluate whether a player in offside position actually becomes involved in play. He's not when he's 30 yards from the ball.

[Alberto]

Disagree. If he's 30 yards away from the ball when he makes his initial run, the flag stays down until it's apparent he's able to influence play. In a recent question on the USSF site, Jim Allen stated that "gains an advantage" only applies to rebounded shots on goal. We need to evaluate whether a player in offside position actually becomes involved in play. He's not when he's 30 yards from the ball.


And what if the defense was playing an offside trap near the halfway line and the player runs onto this through ball in say 3-4 seconds. Entirely possssible with older youth and adults. Now he has the keeper either holding his position or coming out to try and make a play. He clearly gained an advantage.

I assume from Paul's scenario the ball is being played in this players general direction and that the ball lands 20-30 yards towards the other goal.

[IASocFan]

If we are doing as instructed, this poll should yield the same results as the previous poll. I'm calling offside as I understand our instructions. Why would you want to do something else?

[whipple]

And what if the defense was playing an offside trap near the halfway line and the player runs onto this through ball in say 3-4 seconds. Entirely possssible with older youth and adults. Now he has the keeper either holding his position or coming out to try and make a play. He clearly gained an advantage.

I assume from Paul's scenario the ball is being played in this players general direction and that the ball lands 20-30 yards towards the other goal.

The AR would, nevertheless, hold thier flag until the involvement was clear. What the keeper did or did not do is irrelevant.

Sherman

[PVancouver]

If we are doing as instructed, this poll should yield the same results as the previous poll.The difference between the two polls is that in this one, you have to pay attention to the current law and current interpretations of the law. In the other poll you are free to make up your own law concerning offside--the only requirement is that you have some sort of offside law--and then tell us how you would apply it in this situation. Of course, you don't actually have to determine what your actual law would be--only how it would be interpreted in this case.


Now he has the keeper either holding his position or coming out to try and make a play. He clearly gained an advantage.But how much of an advantage is he gaining if he is not allowed to play the ball? And jkc313 is right. In this situation, the player is not considered by FIFA to be "gaining an advantage", oddly enough, even if he does play the ball.


Is this open to international opinions?Yes.

[Alberto]

The AR would, nevertheless, hold thier flag until the involvement was clear. What the keeper did or did not do is irrelevant.

Sherman

Sherman,

I noted the keeper not because he has any bearing on the AR's decision, but to illustrate how the players involvement in play in this scenario lead to a goal scoring opportunity.

[whipple]

I noted the keeper not because he has any bearing on the AR's decision, but to illustrate how the players involvement in play in this scenario lead to a goal scoring opportunity.

But, Alberto, unless the AR is asleep at the switch, until offside is reset, the player in the offside position is no threat, will be flagged for offside if they become involved in play, so it can't lead to anything - thus no advantage.

Sherman

[Alberto]

But, Alberto, unless the AR is asleep at the switch, until offside is reset, the player in the offside position is no threat, will be flagged for offside if they become involved in play, so it can't lead to anything - thus no advantage.

Sherman


In your and my world this player would be flagged when he turned and made a run at the ball. That is how we were instructed to apply the LOTG, but to Paul's eyes there is no involvement because the player is so far away from the ball. My retort to him was to show how his interpretation could lead to difficulties given the speed of todays players.

[chrisrun]

In your and my world this player would be flagged when he turned and made a run at the ball. That is how we were instructed to apply the LOTG, but to Paul's eyes there is no involvement because the player is so far away from the ball. My retort to him was to show how his interpretation could lead to difficulties given the speed of todays players.

What if halfway to the ball his teammate, who was onside, passes him and gets to the ball first? What if it looks like the offside attacker will get to the ball first, but he stops 10 yards from the ball and lets his onside teammate get the ball? What if he stops 2 feet from the ball? Should you flag the player in any of these cases, and if so, when?

[Caesar]

Why has someone set up a poll to decide a matter that has only one answer?

[whipple]

Why has someone set up a poll to decide a matter that has only one answer?

Maybe a better question is: Why has someone set up two polls?

[PVancouver]

You might notice that the polls are giving different results,

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE SAME POLL.

One poll is based on how the rule is currently supposed to be interpreted. If not everyone gives the same answer, then either FIFA has some work cut out for it, or has to acknowledge that its perfectly acceptable for different FAs to interpret the same rule differently, or the people who answer "incorrectly" have to get up to speed.

In the other poll, you should ignore all that, and simply answer the question in the way you would prefer to see an offside rule enforced--not the current offside rule--but an offside rule you would design. Of course, if you think the current rule is perfectly written and is perfectly interpreted, and many people do, your response to both polls would be the same. But...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE THE SAME ANSWER.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE GIVING DIFFERENT RESULTS.

[Alberto]

Maybe a better question is: Why has someone set up two polls?

Because Paul cannot even on a second attempt phrase the question correctly as to what constitutes offside.

I am completely serious, I do not say this in jest.

[Alberto]

What if halfway to the ball his teammate, who was onside, passes him and gets to the ball first? What if it looks like the offside attacker will get to the ball first, but he stops 10 yards from the ball and lets his onside teammate get the ball? What if he stops 2 feet from the ball? Should you flag the player in any of these cases, and if so, when?

Chris, when the player in the offside position makes a run at the ball, at that instant the flag immediately goes up. It has nothing to do with kicking or heading the ball. It's about active involvement in play. If he stood still and did not make a run while in the offside position, the flag should stay down. If he waits and no one from his team runs to play the ball and then he turns say three to four seconds later you could flag for offside if in your opinion his run would still gain him an advantage. It could be even longer, but by that time most defenders would have gained possesion of the ball therefore, raising your flag would be not necessary and would impede the flow of the game.

[jkc313]

And what if the defense was playing an offside trap near the halfway line and the player runs onto this through ball in say 3-4 seconds. Entirely possssible with older youth and adults. Now he has the keeper either holding his position or coming out to try and make a play. He clearly gained an advantage.

I assume from Paul's scenario the ball is being played in this players general direction and that the ball lands 20-30 yards towards the other goal.

If he gets to the ball in 3-4 seconds then the flag should go up. This is different than simply going towards a ball 30 yards away.

[PVancouver]

Poll Results, May 4, 2004:


According to FIFA’s interpretation, when should the attacker be whistled for offside? (THIS POLL)

1) [_3] As soon as the ball is kicked.
2) [_1] When he gets within 10 yards of the ball.
3) [13] When he gets within playing distance of the ball.
4) [_4] When he actually touches the ball.

21 Votes


If it was up to you, when should offside be called?

1) [12] As soon as the ball is kicked.
2) [_3] When he gets within 10 yards of the ball.
3) [11] When he gets within playing distance of the ball.
4) [_5] When he actually touches the ball.

31 Votes