The Environment

[bestbecks]

I know that many of you will probably scoff at this thread, laugh it off, call me a tree-hugging hippie, or simply state that this just belongs in "The World is Insane" thread. I don't care what you think of me, but this is an issue which deserves it's own NSR thread and attention.

The climate crisis is worsening and with the Copenhagen meetings on the environment scheduled for December it feels like an appropriate time to get some opinions on the current problems facing the environment, and ultimately, us.

So what are you doing to reduce your carbon footprint? Are you doing anything at all? If so, what are you doing to reduce CO2 (riding your bike more often than driving your car, getting in touch with local politicians to let them know that you as an average citizen cares about the state of the environment, etc.) If not, why aren't you doing anything?

Do you believe the science behind Climate Change? Please don't cite Al Gore as a source, but if you must, realise that he is not a scientist.

[United Forever]

I personally don't think that us as a people are only factors behind climate change and no matter what is done it will shift. In regards on what I am doing to prevent emissions...well lets just say that stuff isn't taken that seriously down here.

[Invincible]

Ugh... It's ironic how the same people that were behind the industrialization/pollution of the world are the ones getting on TV now and trying to make you feel guilty for being alive. In the end, it's all about money and it's all about the coming carbon derivatives ponzi scheme/bubble+hidden taxation on the population.

They can all go eff themselves for all I care, I'm living and enjoying my life to the fullest, and I could give a damn about my "footprint" :rolleyes:


P.S, wasn't there a global cooling hysteria in the 70s? Ha.

[bestbecks]

Ugh... It's ironic how the same people that were behind the industrialization/pollution of the world are the ones getting on TV now and trying to make you feel guilty for being alive. In the end, it's all about money and it's all about the coming carbon derivatives ponzi scheme/bubble+hidden taxation on the population.

They can all go eff themselves for all I care, I'm living and enjoying my life to the fullest, and I could give a damn about my "footprint" :rolleyes:


P.S, wasn't there a global cooling hysteria in the 70s? Ha.
To be honest, I agree with the whole cashgrab scheme you mentioned. All of this "going green" business is just that, a business. Fortunately it's heading in the right direction by lowering CO2 emissions, unfortunately it's just getting people to keep comsuming.

It's always easier to be enjoying your life when you're not thinking about seriously important things (which more often than not are massive problems). However, if you ever have kids (not sure if that's your thing) the planet will probably be royally ********ed unless we do things to mitigate our impact on it now. It's nice to live in a bubble sometimes, but it's necessary to have it burst as well.

The whole global cooling theory was shortlived and dispelled in the 80's and has never seriously been re-opened since.

Sorry if this seems like a personal attack Vince, it's not meant as such. And I apologize if this thread seems completely self-serving, it's not why it was created, really.

[Invincible]

To be honest, I agree with the whole cashgrab scheme you mentioned. All of this "going green" business is just that, a business. Fortunately it's heading in the right direction by lowering CO2 emissions, unfortunately it's just getting people to keep comsuming.

It's always easier to be enjoying your life when you're not thinking about seriously important things (which more often than not are massive problems). However, if you ever have kids (not sure if that's your thing) the planet will probably be royally ********ed unless we do things to mitigate our impact on it now. It's nice to live in a bubble sometimes, but it's necessary to have it burst as well.

The whole global cooling theory was shortlived and dispelled in the 80's and has never seriously been re-opened since.

Sorry if this seems like a personal attack Vince, it's not meant as such. And I apologize if this thread seems completely self-serving, it's not why it was created, really.
I'm not really going to get into this now because
We're both not going to change our minds.
It's going to be long and drawn out. We're both going to throw facts at each other and it'll become a war of attrition at that point.


I'll just explain my point of view in a nutshell, since your thread seems to ask that. I believe that the whole global warming hysteria, is just that, hysteria. I believe it's a theory that's being funded and allowed to spread and grow to almost religious proportions by the powers that be for
Further destruction of the middle class through hidden taxation.
Profit.
Psychological terror on humankind, because the powers that be are bored, rich and toxic individuals that thrive in a toxic world environment.


That is why I say I don't care. I'm not altering my life and feeling guilt because of some theory pushed by a bunch of snooty, wealthy and elitist people who believe that all of humanity are "useless eaters" as they describe and deserve anything thrown at them.(I'm not saying I'll pollute either) What I do care about is cleaning up the pollution, reducing the global population, mass replanting of forests and giving animals their habitats back, because we're backing them against the wall. That I could get on board with.

[Republic of Mancunia]

Firstly, it's definitely not something that belongs in the 'World is Insane' thread imo. Then again, I've got an irrational hatred for many of these broad-topic threads, including player specific threads on the football side of things. :) I think that individual threads about this, that and the other are decent as ocassionaly things get buried amongst other discussions that are going on at the same time in those broad, 'catch all' threads. If no-one wants to talk about a particular point when a new thread is started then the thread will die anyway and nobody loses out.

Anyway, I recycle but am in effect forced to. For the past year or so we've been given 4 different rubbish bins. One for landfill, one for garden waste, one for paper/cardboard and one for tin cans, bottles, jars and recyclable plastics. Technically you can be fined if you put the wrong stuff in the wrong bins.

I don't have a driver's license so no car emissions are created by me. It's not because of the environment though. My parents never drove when I was a kid as my mother reckoned she'd be too nervous behind the wheel and my dad reckoned his poor eyesight in one eye might've hindered him a bit. They never had much cash either so money was probably an issue too. Growing up with no car in the household like that, I guess I was used to public transport, walking and hopping in the odd taxi if really struggling to get somewhere. By the time I reached adulthood I was set in my ways.

That's the extent of my greenness. I don't really have a good reason/excuse for not doing more. I suppose that'd be selfish to some, just not giving it much thought to others.

[holytoledo]

Is this topic something I lay awake at night worrying about? No.

Do I think mankind could and should do more to improve in areas like lowering pollution and protecting wildlife habitats (forests and jungles)? Yes.

My opinion on this issue is actually pretty similar to Vince's.

Just out of curiosity though, I looked for a website to calculate my "carbon footprint." :rolleyes:

My carbon footprint is 22 tons of CO2 per year. Below the national average of 27. Yay me.

[bestbecks]

I maintain that we should be calling it a "carbon assprint" not "footprint". We spend all of our time on our ass while emitting CO2. And 22 tons of CO2 a year is extremely high. A Canadian's average is around 20t.

I don't really know how some of you are writing this off as merely part of the game of the "powers that rule the world". If that was the case, wouldn't George Bush have done more to ensure that Americans were taxed on carbon or anything like that?

For the record, I do not believe in any 'group of wealthy people ruling the world and controlling our lives' to the extent that has been stated here.

[holytoledo]

It must be really hard carrying that cross on your back all the time.

[United Forever]

I maintain that we should be calling it a "carbon assprint" not "footprint". We spend all of our time on our ass while emitting CO2. And 22 tons of CO2 a year is extremely high. A Canadian's average is around 20t.

I don't really know how some of you are writing this off as merely part of the game of the "powers that rule the world". If that was the case, wouldn't George Bush have done more to ensure that Americans were taxed on carbon or anything like that?

For the record, I do not believe in any 'group of wealthy people ruling the world and controlling our lives' to the extent that has been stated here.



What site do you check that Carbon thing. I might be ridiculously high for all you know (probably not as high as others mind). And for the bolded part how can you not believe? Don't you see it all around?

[bestbecks]

It must be really hard carrying that cross on your back all the time.
I'm not religious, and I'm not self-righteous. So please, don't start with claiming me to be 'holier-than-thou'. You used that statement before on me, in the travel thread when I said I got back from Africa. Step outside of your American bubble.

[Achtung]

It's one of those things I go back and forth on, to be honest. As someone who makes a living in a field of science, I do pay close attention to everything that is out there regarding some of what's happening in terms of climate change. I think most people would agree that the climate is changing--the disagreement comes in terms of whether people think it's part of the natural cycle, and how much of the change comes as a direct result of human activity.

For me, most of the "green activities" I do are mostly in terms of making my life easier. If I buy one or two things from the store, I either bring my own bag or forego using a bag altogether--I was sick of being buried in plastic bags at home. Taking public transportation is convenient because its far cheaper than paying $20 to park in a garage in the city or searching around for a meter. Cracking a window when its nice out rather than running the A/C saves some cash, etc etc.

I did read a quote once, ironically on the back of a Starbucks cup (:rolleyes: :D) that sort of got to the point:

"So-called “global warming” is just a secret ploy by wacko tree-huggers to make America energy independent, clean our air and water, improve the fuel efficiency of our vehicles, kick-start 21st-century industries, and make our cities safer and more livable. Don’t let them get away with it!"

Obviously that's a bit of a simplification of the whole issue. But I think the point is that even if you don't believe in global warming, there are plenty of reasons to be less wasteful.

[phishy]

Ugh... It's ironic how the same people that were behind the industrialization/pollution of the world are the ones getting on TV now and trying to make you feel guilty for being alive. In the end, it's all about money and it's all about the coming carbon derivatives ponzi scheme/bubble+hidden taxation on the population.

They can all go eff themselves for all I care, I'm living and enjoying my life to the fullest, and I could give a damn about my "footprint" :rolleyes:


P.S, wasn't there a global cooling hysteria in the 70s? Ha.
amen~

[bestbecks]

What site do you check that Carbon thing. I might be ridiculously high for all you know (probably not as high as others mind). And for the bolded part how can you not believe? Don't you see it all around?
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/environment/air_co2_emissions.htm - the data is from 2004, so it is outdated. But per capita emissions have remained relatively stagnant.

And I do not believe that the world is controlled by a group of 5-10 of the wealthiest people (that is merely a conspiracy theory with as much merit as the theory that contends that God exists), who are using climate change as a way to increase taxation and thus get more money. If that was the case why wasn't the Bush Administration taxing Americans up to their eyeballs for the use of carbon?

[srd....]

EPA may have suppressed report (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/26/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5117890.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.5)

Saw this the other day,interesting read.

[Invincible]

The Bitter Irony of Cap And Trade: Radical Environmentalism will kill off most environmentalists (http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/bitter-irony-of-cap-and-trade-radical.html)

Beautiful article here. I'd love to hear an argument against this.


Bestbecks, I don't believe that the power elite "control our lives", but you have to admit that they influence things(laws, finance, policies etc) that do affect us in a negative way.

EPA may have suppressed report (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/26/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5117890.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.5)

Saw this the other day,interesting read.
There's this as well. :)

[bestbecks]

The Bitter Irony of Cap And Trade: Radical Environmentalism will kill off most environmentalists (http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/bitter-irony-of-cap-and-trade-radical.html)

Beautiful article here. I'd love to hear an argument against this.



He never mentioned anything about Agribusiness in there and how that is the real reason why farmer's are forced to sell their produce at such high prices.

[jeff070]

I do not really think and worry about this, as I am a devoted Christian I trust the Lord and that is how far I go, I use the train to college and walk mostly to anywhere, I try to turn off the light when I am not in the room. This just came to my mind, America is worrying about how the population are wasting electricity and being "green" where in my country (Lebanon) we have 3 hours of electricity, there are more things to worry about, Humanitarian things. I prefer to help a poor society than to be Energy efficient. Btw Vince for President!

[FIFARay007]

I have a "blue bin" and recycle my plastic/glass/cardboard/newspaper on a weekly basis. Do I sometimes throw stuff out instead of putting it in the blue bin? Yep, and I do not lose sleep over it.

Other than that, I don't do much to help. The way I figure it, the Earth was here long before us, and will be here long, long after us.

[Invincible]

I have a "blue bin" and recycle my plastic/glass/cardboard/newspaper on a weekly basis. Do I sometimes throw stuff out instead of putting it in the blue bin? Yep, and I do not lose sleep over it.

Other than that, I don't do much to help. The way I figure it, the Earth was here long before us, and will be here long, long after us.

A-Freakin-Men. It's insanely arrogant(and laughably wrong) to think that we can actually do anything other than leave a scratch on a planet that has survived pole shifts and collisions with asteroids.