Red Sox Nation

[DoctorJones24]

Heck, if the White Sox and Padres have their own threads...

Let's keep this on the first page as the Sox march towards the pennant.


Couple thoughts so far: Scary to think how good the pitching will be when Kim gets into the mix. The pen is probably our best weapon right now, and it'll only get stronger by adding Arroyo to the mix as the long relief guy. And Kim's an upgrade as the 5th starter.

The offense hasn't really gotten going yet, which makes it especially nice to be in 1st place after having swept the Yankee$. But we definitely need Nomar and Nixon back soon. The final 3rd of the order has too often sounded like a bad PawSox joke: McCarty, Reese, and Crespo? Btw, even fully healthy, I think the Red Sox will have the 3rd best offense in the division this year, behind NY and Baltimore. All three will be very good, of course.

Love to see the way Pedro has responded to his battering by that potent Oriole lineup: outduels last year's Cy Young winner, and then follows it up by pitching a gem today against the Yanks, outdueling NY's new ace, who also had great stuff.

I've got deluxe box seats for the game next Thursday in Jacob's field. Looks to be either Pedro or Wakefield starting that one. Apparently there's some type of free buffet/drinks that come with the seats...should be a fun time.

[BenReilly]

One of the reasons the pitching is looking better is Pokey Reese. He saves close to a hit a game. If people fully appreciated fielding, he'd be making $10M a year. Unfortunately, I doubt he'll be a full-time starter when Nomar comes back. I assume he'll play 2b when Lowe and Wakefield stars, but not for Pedro and Schilling. I hope I'm wrong, but his bat is so pitiful I can't see him playing every day.

[NER_MCFC]

One of the reasons the pitching is looking better is Pokey Reese.
Complete agreement here. Even when Nomar comes back, I think Reese will still be the best fielding shortstop on the team. My impression during the spring was that he was expected to start at 2nd, and if he can get his average up to his career number of .250, he'll be plenty good enough.

[Achtung]

Indeed Pokey is an excellent fielder, one of the most underrated in the league at his position. But I think the offensive pop from Nixon and Nomar is badly needed, just because there isn't a lot of cohesion in that lineup.

But the bullpen has been on fire, which is just what we need this year after the poor start they had last year. All the starters look confident too. I've never been a fan of Kim, so I have no problem with Arroyo as a 5th starter (its the way I set up my lineup in ESPN Baseball).

[BenReilly]

Indeed Pokey is an excellent fielder, one of the most underrated in the league at his position. But I think the offensive pop from Nixon and Nomar is badly needed, just because there isn't a lot of cohesion in that lineup.

But the bullpen has been on fire, which is just what we need this year after the poor start they had last year. All the starters look confident too. I've never been a fan of Kim, so I have no problem with Arroyo as a 5th starter (its the way I set up my lineup in ESPN Baseball).

I've always been a huge fan of Kim. Remember that he had already pitched around 50 pitches when he blew game 4. Putting him in game 5 was criminal. Aside from that embarassing WS, his career has been excellent.

Kim has now pitched 77 innings as a starter and has an ERA of 3.16. Arroyo's starting ERA is 5.38 in 103 2/3 innings.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040429/capt.efa10704292041.devil_rays_red_sox_efa107.jpg

[BenReilly]

Moderator: Can you please put an (R) on this thread?

[JMMUSA8]

I was under the notion that Reese is only playing shortstop because he is the best fielding shortstop on the roster. When Nomar comes back, he will be playing the position that the Red Sox got him for, 2B. Otherwise it would be Belhorn. They already had a good hitting 2B last year (Walker) and that almost got them there. With a great defensive 2B to tighten up the infield, Reese could be the "missing" link for the Sox to go farther this year. Of course having the best pitching staff in baseball helps.

[BenReilly]

I was under the notion that Reese is only playing shortstop because he is the best fielding shortstop on the roster. When Nomar comes back, he will be playing the position that the Red Sox got him for, 2B. Otherwise it would be Belhorn. They already had a good hitting 2B last year (Walker) and that almost got them there. With a great defensive 2B to tighten up the infield, Reese could be the "missing" link for the Sox to go farther this year. Of course having the best pitching staff in baseball helps.

You're correct. Pokey was brought in to play 2b, but he is a great SS as well. Nomar's contract is up at the end of the year so Pokey could move to SS next year.

[NER_MCFC]

Kim has now pitched 77 innings as a starter and has an ERA of 3.16. Arroyo's starting ERA is 5.38 in 103 2/3 innings.

This comparison kind of sells Arroyo short, especially since neither of them has enough starts to really say. If Arroyo does reasonably well in his start tonight in Texas, the Sox will have a delightful dilemma on their hands.

[DoctorJones24]

This comparison kind of sells Arroyo short, especially since neither of them has enough starts to really say. If Arroyo does reasonably well in his start tonight in Texas, the Sox will have a delightful dilemma on their hands.

True enough, regarding Arroyo, but Kim's worth is pretty well established by now. He was an All-Star caliber middle reliever for Arizona with a nasty K/out ratio for a couple years.

My sense has been that his lack of communication with teammates (esp. the catcher) has hurt his development, as his English is still poor. But comments from Mirabelli after yesterday's game suggest this is improving.

[Achtung]

Well hopefully I'm wrong about Kim. He's done pretty well this year, and if he works out as a solid fifth starter, I won't have any complaints.

Lowe did well last night to recover from the first inning, and Williamson and Foulke have been solid as setup man and closer.

The Sox are currently just 9th in the AL in runs scored, and 10th in BA, but the guys are getting clutch hits and the pitching is very effective. Hopefully things get even better when Nixon and Nomar return.

[BenReilly]

This comparison kind of sells Arroyo short, especially since neither of them has enough starts to really say. If Arroyo does reasonably well in his start tonight in Texas, the Sox will have a delightful dilemma on their hands.

Kim has pitched 407 innings in his career, with an ERA of 3.20.

[NER_MCFC]

According to this morning's Boston Globe, Nixon is expected back in a week or so, and Nomar is doing baseball related work outs with no setbacks so far. I'm more impatient for Nixon to come back because Gabe Kapler looks more like an athlete than a baseball player to me, and Nixon's just the opposite, even if he was a heavily recruited high school quarter back.

[NER_MCFC]

Kim has pitched 407 innings in his career, with an ERA of 3.20.
The remark I was responding to specifically compared Kim and Arroyo as starters. Kim as 14 starts in his career, and Arroyo only has 7 starts in the last 3 years.

[BenReilly]

I've always maintained that it was a horrible mistake to have different stats for hitters and pitchers. If we used the same stats, the relative values of hitters and pitchers would be apparent and interchangeable. What we have now is the equivalent of the old English monetary system.

Most people agree that of all the simple stats (BA, RBIs, etc), OPS is the best measure of productivity by far. Kim's lifetime OPS against is .613 How good is that? Pokey Reese's OPS is .664 Pokey Reese is more productive with the bat than they a typical batter is against Kim.

Randy Johnson's OPS against lifetime is .636

While it's way too early to know if Kim will be a successful starter, he has the potential of being HOF calibre.

[BenReilly]

The remark I was responding to specifically compared Kim and Arroyo as starters. Kim as 14 starts in his career, and Arroyo only has 7 starts in the last 3 years.

Of course, but we have other important evidence that demonstrates Kim's value as a pitcher.

[DoctorJones24]

I've always maintained that it was a horrible mistake to have different stats for hitters and pitchers. If we used the same stats, the relative values of hitters and pitchers would be apparent and interchangeable. What we have now is the equivalent of the old English monetary system.

Most people agree that of all the simple stats (BA, RBIs, etc), OPS is the best measure of productivity by far. Kim's lifetime OPS against is .613 How good is that? Pokey Reese's OPS is .664 Pokey Reese is more productive with the bat than they a typical batter is against Kim.

Randy Johnson's OPS against lifetime is .636

While it's way too early to know if Kim will be a successful starter, he has the potential of being HOF calibre.

This is why I love the baseball board. Ben has a knack for bringing out some totally obscure, yet completely relevant and thought-provoking stat--I especially like it when he agrees with me.

[NER_MCFC]

Of course, but we have other important evidence that demonstrates Kim's value as a pitcher.
I agree with you about applying hitting stats to pitchers, but shouldn't there be some method of distinguishing between starters and relievers?
If you look at per-at-bat numbers for pitchers (oponents BA, K/IP, etc), the competent relievers always stand out because they don't have to be that good for as long in each appearance.
I'm not gonna do the number crunching, but I bet that if you compared Kim only to other relievers, you'd find that he's good but not great.

The Sox apparently plan to use him exclusively as a starter, so we'll find out one way or the other, but I will be pleasantly surprised if he has the stuff or the focus to be as good over 5 or more innings every 5 days as he has been pitching 1 or 2 innings.

[DoctorJones24]

Never been a huge fan of D-Lo anyway. Definitely should not resign him for the type of money he's after.

But man do we need Nomar/Nixon back. Damon/Mueller/Millar are absolutely killing us.

I've been slamming Damon for years now, and the guy just keeps proving me right. He's still riding the wave of a couple good years with KC. The dude stinks--probably the ugliest swing in the majors.

[NER_MCFC]

But man do we need Nomar/Nixon back. Damon/Mueller/Millar are absolutely killing us.
Agreed, although it also looks like those three are, for the moment, well below where their career numbers would suggest. I'm more worried about Mueller and Millar defensively than offensively right now, and Damon's career numbers suggest he'll pick it up, although I'm not sure he belongs in the leadoff spot in any case.

Have the Sox had an above average all-around centerfielder since Fred Lynn? It seems like it's mostly been big bats like Tony Armas and Carl Everett or week hitting defensive specialists like Darren Lewis.