Coup d'etat in Honduras?

[MetroChile]

Honduran leader forced into exile.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm

[IowaBoy]

I just hope Zelaya isn't president after January. I don't care if he's done now, or if he's done at the end of his term in January (which he's trying to change).

He's been trying to ram his Chavez-esque policies down the throats of the Honduran people, who as a whole have stated their displeasure and resistance to becoming Venezuela-lite.

[YanksCatrachos23]

I just hope Zelaya isn't president after January. I don't care if he's done now, or if he's done at the end of his term in January (which he's trying to change).

He's been trying to ram his Chavez-esque policies down the throats of the Honduran people, who as a whole have stated their displeasure and resistance to becoming Venezuela-lite.

(this is the re-posting of my thoughts on this issue, since I had first posted it in the Hon-CR WCQ thread)

Zelaya was not good for the country. He was leading Honduras down the path of all the latin american countries of the world, a socialist model that I and many others did not approve of.

Although I could have dealt without a coup, Zelaya and his actions brought it (the coup) upon himself. Im glad the military took matters into their own hands, it was our/their only choice or else we would have continued down the wrong path. And to Venezuela, I dare them to send troops. Chavez has some nerve getting involved in our buissness. Its a shame however we probably wouldnt get much/any help from the U.S.; theres no Reagan to help us out.

Im also worried how this might affect la bicolor on their upcoming wcq games. Who knows if riots will ensue outside the stadium, inside, etc.

[MoRado]

Thats what I thought.... interesting... i changed my mind as soon as I heard that Venezuela is supporting Zelaya, I think that the Honduras Goverment did the correct thing, but in the wrong way.

everybody has gotten the idea that Zelaya is the good guy and it seems that is the other way around

update...
Zelaya is not in Costa Rica anymore, he is in Nicaragua right now (venezuelas friend)

[MoRado]

Today NAcion´s headline

Golpe de Estado en Honduras provoca repudio hemisférico

http://www.nacion.com/ln_ee/2009/junio/29/pais2010813.html

[MetroChile]

Con los "amiguitos" que se gasta Zelaya (Ortega, Chavez)...:rolleyes:

[argentine soccer fan]

It was wrong to have a coup, just as it was wrong to have the referendum.

The proper course of action should have been for the legislative branch to impeach Zelaya through due process, based on the fact that he violated the order of the Supreme Court. That is how a representative democracy, like Honduras claims to be, should handle this situation.

In Latin America we need to learn to respect our democratic institutions, so our younger generation can grow up trusting our democracy and we can break the antidemocratic cycle that brings us the autocratic leaders from both ends of the spectrum, the Allendes and the Pinochets, the Perons and the Videlas, the Chaveses and so on.

Neither Zelaya nor his opponents showed respect for the law or for democracy in this case, and this is yet another example of why our democracies are so weak.

[Popol Vuh]

This is the primary reason why our countries would never be more than just "Banana republics".

Zelaya was doing nothing wrong and was working democratically. The Army can't throw out a head of state just because they don't support his views and actions, that's like your servants kicking you out of your mansion because they don't like how you're doing things.

[YanksCatrachos23]

This is the primary reason why our countries would never be more than just "Banana republics".

Zelaya was doing nothing wrong and was working democratically. The Army can't throw out a head of state just because they don't support his views and actions, that's like your servants kicking you out of your mansion because they don't like how you're doing things.

Do yourself a favor and read the post above yours.

[Pønch]

The proper course of action should have been for the legislative branch to impeach Zelaya through due process, based on the fact that he violated the order of the Supreme Court. That is how a representative democracy, like Honduras claims to be, should handle this situation.



Totally agree. If there was a legal course of action to remove him from power, why take him out of his house in the middle of the night, at gunpoint, and ship him to another country without even letting him put on some clothes?

[Popol Vuh]

Do yourself a favor and read the post above yours.
Is there a problem about having the same point of view? Don't come over here to release your anger at me just because you disagree with my comment.

[EstebanLugo]

Zelaya: "I'll be back on Thursday"

Betcha he's not going back alone.

http://www.radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?t=27470

[beto010]

hey you guys f***** up. Honduras fu**** up. you're country comes off not only as childish but as if it does not respect democracy. I don't think u guys know what a real democracy is. Regardless of what party he's from there is no way you can just kick your president out. wow. that's so 20-30 years ago. I thought we had progressed in central america. whatever your opinions are on chavez he is democratically elected by his people and he has been rather good to the majority of people in the country.

However i might disagree with his methods and or actions this goes to show that b/c the right has rulled for so long and favored the rich, now we have to go to the other end of the spectrum and you get chavez. There is no median in latin america. And that is very very disheartening

[YanksCatrachos23]

hey you guys f***** up. Honduras fu**** up. you're country comes off not only as childish but as if it does not respect democracy. I don't think u guys know what a real democracy is. Regardless of what party he's from there is no way you can just kick your president out. wow. that's so 20-30 years ago. I thought we had progressed in central america. whatever your opinions are on chavez he is democratically elected by his people and he has been rather good to the majority of people in the country.

However i might disagree with his methods and or actions this goes to show that b/c the right has rulled for so long and favored the rich, now we have to go to the other end of the spectrum and you get chavez. There is no median in latin america. And that is very very disheartening

Look, we know as well as anyone that coups dont "look good" especially in todays world. But the majority of the population, government officials, and the military just DID NOT want Zelaya taking the country down the socialist path of many other latin american countries. Zelaya's actions were unconstitutional.

In my opinion Zelaya just changed to being a big time leftist that hangs with Fidel and Hugo, just for aide, political gain and oil. And he paid for it. This dude was corrupt, he hurt Honduras' economy and was just a downright disaster.

But it is "disheartening" as you put it. Just look at El Salvador for example.
And thats what Im afraid of. I dont want Honduras becoming another Nicaragua, etc. (no disrespect, I just mean that in terms of their government). BUT on the other hand, I dont want a far right wing military dictatorship. I personally perfer a traditional conservative type of government.

To be honest with you, I really didnt want this coup to occur, and wish the situation could have been handled differently (ie., an impeachment). But it did, and we're going to have to deal with it.

[beto010]

look, we know as well as anyone that coups dont "look good" especially in todays world. But the majority of the population, government officials, and the military just did not want zelaya taking the country down the socialist path of many other latin american countries. Zelaya's actions were unconstitutional.

In my opinion zelaya just changed to being a big time leftist that hangs with fidel and hugo, just for aide, political gain and oil. And he paid for it. This dude was corrupt, he hurt honduras' economy and was just a downright disaster.

But it is "disheartening" as you put it. Just look at el salvador for example.
And thats what im afraid of. I dont want honduras becoming another nicaragua, etc. (no disrespect, i just mean that in terms of their government). But on the other hand, i dont want a far right wing military dictatorship. I personally perfer a traditional conservative type of government.

To be honest with you, i really didnt want this coup to occur, and wish the situation could have been handled differently (ie., an impeachment). But it did, and we're going to have to deal with it.

cool dude im from the bronx too lol.

What happened in el salvador? There was an election and the dude won! What's so wrong with that? Im not a conservative at all. Lol. I guess i like to stir the pot a little, lolol. Anyway, i just think it's wrong in a democracy to kick out a president. That's why there are rules and laws and actually what they did is unconstitutional. So it's hard to defend a democracy when you're actually beaking the law and going against a democracy.

See the point is that to you THINK he had to go. And i get that. But there are other people who think this person was a hero. Now think how they feel. A democracy is for all not for the few. And what 0ccured was just wrong. Independent of whether you like the guy or not, it was wrong and you cannot have a democracy this way. What if they don't like the new president, and oh well, they'll just kick him out too. You see. But cool, we're both from the bronx. I'm on the west side and you?

[gethomas3]

Can a native Spanish speaker please translate the excerpt of the Honduran constitution around post 30ish? That can go a good way toward solving this argument.

Let me save you some time.

I have been going over the Honduran constitution and it states:


Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Constitution_of_Honduras&action=edit&redlink=1), which forbids any former chief executive from being re-elected President, states that any citizen who proposes reforming this law, and any others who support such a person directly or indirectly, are to immediately "cease carrying out" any public office.

Furthermore Article 42, Section 5 of the Constitution states that citizenship is lost for "inciting, promoting or supporting the continuation or the reelection of the President of the Republic." According to the same article, revoking citizenship for this reason requires a court sentence and then a government order


It can't get any more illegal then that.

But I have found a major problem in their constitution and I mean a HUGE problem...

...their constitution establishes no process for impeaching or removing a president. Like nada. Not even a hint of what to do in that case. In other words, there was absolutely no legal way to stop Zelaya from doing what he was going to do.

And I have went through their constitution for hours since this morning.

And if they can't get rid of a corrupt official, not even legally, when he does whatever the fack he wants, what other way then to stop a dictatorship?

Although unfortunate, a guardian coup seems the best solution for now.

All these politicians from other countries don't want uprising like in Honduras because they know they are corrupt and they know the people are getting tired. It is only a matter of time.

[YanksCatrachos23]

cool dude im from the bronx too lol.

What happened in el salvador? There was an election and the dude won! What's so wrong with that? Im not a conservative at all. Lol. I guess i like to stir the pot a little, lolol. Anyway, i just think it's wrong in a democracy to kick out a president. That's why there are rules and laws and actually what they did is unconstitutional. So it's hard to defend a democracy when you're actually beaking the law and going against a democracy.

See the point is that to you THINK he had to go. And i get that. But there are other people who think this person was a hero. Now think how they feel. A democracy is for all not for the few. And what 0ccured was just wrong. Independent of whether you like the guy or not, it was wrong and you cannot have a democracy this way. What if they don't like the new president, and oh well, they'll just kick him out too. You see. But cool, we're both from the bronx. I'm on the west side and you?

I referred to El Salvador because of what you mentioned, how theres no median in latin america. For years el salvador was on the right, but now its taken a sharp left turn. Not that theres anything wrong with that (personally I dont like far left or far right). BUT thats whats happened in ES.

Not trying to be a dick, but read getthomas' post cause he explains it all. Zelaya was acting in an unconstitutional way.

BTW, Im from the Riverdale/Kingsbridge area of the bronx.

[beto010]

let me save you some time.

I have been going over the honduran constitution and it states:



It can't get any more illegal then that.

But i have found a major problem in their constitution and i mean a huge problem...

...their constitution establishes no process for impeaching or removing a president. Like nada. Not even a hint of what to do in that case. In other words, there was absolutely no legal way to stop zelaya from doing what he was going to do.

And i have went through their constitution for hours since this morning.

And if they can't get rid of a corrupt official, not even legally, when he does whatever the fack he wants, what other way then to stop a dictatorship?

Although unfortunate, a guardian coup seems the best solution for now.

All these politicians from other countries don't want uprising like in honduras because they know they are corrupt and they know the people are getting tired. It is only a matter of time.

all they guy wanted to do was hold an unofficial poll. I don't really get it. Moreover, wouldn't he need congress to pass a law that stated more term limits? I don't think it was ever going to pass. I don't get why they did this.right now it just looks like the wealthiest of hondurans paid off some officials and they carried out a coup. It's very weird.

[YanksCatrachos23]

all they guy wanted to do was hold an unofficial poll. I don't really get it. Moreover, wouldn't he need congress to pass a law that stated more term limits? I don't think it was ever going to pass. I don't get why they did this.right now it just looks like the wealthiest of hondurans paid off some officials and they carried out a coup. It's very weird.

Actually, all this guy wanted to do was morph Honduras into the typical, cookie cutter socialist latin american country of the world, and thats a problem. How is it a coup when he acted against the constitution's provisions?

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/ckincaid/2009/ck_06301.shtml

Obama Sides With Marxists Over Honduras
By Cliff Kincaid
June 30, 2009

The so-called "military coup" in Honduras was a successful effort by Honduran patriots to preserve their constitutional system of government from an international alliance of communists and socialists backed by Iran.

Not surprisingly, America's Marxist President has come down on the anti-American side.

If all of this is news to you, consider yourself a victim of the "state-run media," as Rush Limbaugh calls it. We are being bombarded with liberal media propaganda that a "military coup" took place in Honduras, and that the U.S. should therefore oppose it.

Fox News, which has been trumpeting news about the "military coup," should be ashamed of itself for following the liberal media line.

Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL), the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, noted that the problem was that the deposed president, Manuel "Mel" Zelaya, was "moving to re-write the Honduran constitution to extend and expand his power, while retaliating against those who stand in his way."

The leftist Zelaya was democratically elected in 2005 in a narrow win (with less than a majority of the vote) but he has been attempting to unconstitutionally and illegally undercut the conservative majorities in the Congress. His main purpose has been to circumvent a prohibition on serving more than one term as president.

With his departure, Honduras may have been spared a communist future.
Nevertheless, Obama and his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton quickly issued statements saying that his removal was somehow a violation of the Inter-American Democratic Charter. This was a clever ruse designed to disguise the fact that all of the major elements of constitutional power in Honduras, except for the increasingly unpopular and power-hungry president, acted on behalf of the people.

The United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has joined with the U.N. General Assembly President, Communist Priest Miguel D'Escoto, to demand that Zelaya be restored to power.

The new president, Roberto Micheletti, has made it clear that Zelaya was removed because he had behaved in an unconstitutional manner. "I did not reach this position because of a coup," Micheletti said. "I am here because of an absolutely legal transition process." Micheletti was a member of Zelaya's Liberal Party but opposed his illegal and unconstitutional actions.

What happened is that the Legislative and Judicial branches of the government in Honduras, in conjunction with the armed forces, acted to maintain and defend their constitution from a power-mad president who was a puppet of Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.

Blogger Jason Poblete commented that the Obama Administration "was quick to call the events in Honduras a coup. What has gone underreported, or not reported at all in the media or recognized by the Obama Administration, is that the democratically-elected Congress unanimously approved the change in leadership and impeached the President. If this was a constitutionally correct action why has the Obama Administration been so quick to judge and condemn?"

Claims of a "military coup" have appeared in the press because that is the way far-left officials of the Obama Administration have described it. The

Administration has been just as quick to undermine freedom and democracy in Honduras as it was late in supporting the pro-freedom and pro-democracy demonstrators in Iran.

[beto010]

actually, all this guy wanted to do was morph honduras into the typical, cookie cutter socialist latin american country of the world, and thats a problem. How is it a coup when he acted against the constitution's provisions?

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/ckincaid/2009/ck_06301.shtml

obama sides with marxists over honduras
by cliff kincaid
june 30, 2009

the so-called "military coup" in honduras was a successful effort by honduran patriots to preserve their constitutional system of government from an international alliance of communists and socialists backed by iran.

Not surprisingly, america's marxist president has come down on the anti-american side.

If all of this is news to you, consider yourself a victim of the "state-run media," as rush limbaugh calls it. We are being bombarded with liberal media propaganda that a "military coup" took place in honduras, and that the u.s. Should therefore oppose it.

Fox news, which has been trumpeting news about the "military coup," should be ashamed of itself for following the liberal media line.

Rep. Ileana ros-lehtinen (r-fl), the ranking republican on the house foreign affairs committee, noted that the problem was that the deposed president, manuel "mel" zelaya, was "moving to re-write the honduran constitution to extend and expand his power, while retaliating against those who stand in his way."

the leftist zelaya was democratically elected in 2005 in a narrow win (with less than a majority of the vote) but he has been attempting to unconstitutionally and illegally undercut the conservative majorities in the congress. His main purpose has been to circumvent a prohibition on serving more than one term as president.

With his departure, honduras may have been spared a communist future.
Nevertheless, obama and his secretary of state hillary clinton quickly issued statements saying that his removal was somehow a violation of the inter-american democratic charter. This was a clever ruse designed to disguise the fact that all of the major elements of constitutional power in honduras, except for the increasingly unpopular and power-hungry president, acted on behalf of the people.

The united nations secretary-general ban ki-moon has joined with the u.n. General assembly president, communist priest miguel d'escoto, to demand that zelaya be restored to power.

The new president, roberto micheletti, has made it clear that zelaya was removed because he had behaved in an unconstitutional manner. "i did not reach this position because of a coup," micheletti said. "i am here because of an absolutely legal transition process." micheletti was a member of zelaya's liberal party but opposed his illegal and unconstitutional actions.

What happened is that the legislative and judicial branches of the government in honduras, in conjunction with the armed forces, acted to maintain and defend their constitution from a power-mad president who was a puppet of fidel castro and hugo chavez.

Blogger jason poblete commented that the obama administration "was quick to call the events in honduras a coup. What has gone underreported, or not reported at all in the media or recognized by the obama administration, is that the democratically-elected congress unanimously approved the change in leadership and impeached the president. If this was a constitutionally correct action why has the obama administration been so quick to judge and condemn?"

claims of a "military coup" have appeared in the press because that is the way far-left officials of the obama administration have described it. The

administration has been just as quick to undermine freedom and democracy in honduras as it was late in supporting the pro-freedom and pro-democracy demonstrators in iran.

this is an easy one. It's a coup because nowhere in the honduras constitution does it say its ok to oust a president with the military.. Simple. U just support the right wing dictatorship type of government so you're ok with that. But if it had been your dictator you would be all up in arms. Fair is fair and what happened was illegal. Regardless about what any dumbass says about the obama administration. You're source is some right wing propaganda spewing idiot. C'mon if you want to be taken serious you gotta do better than that.