MLS HAS to have a return to South Florida strategy!

[jri]

The Marlins financing is looking in bad shape. Recent ESPN article says owner Loria enamored with Las Vegas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1788646

Loria, according to one of the most local popular sport radio guys, has not "tried" on this financing deal, and is looking for a way out.

It would be ludicrous for MLS not to do its best to re-establish a team in South Florida. You've got a metro area (from West Palm to Miami) of over 5 million. You've got high numbers of youth soccer, TV ratings for soccer, international exhibitions draw terrific. The Strikers- who ironically played in an era w/o MLB, would draw in 12-14k for several years.

Of course, it has to be done over and right (likely Miami). However, local Miami politicans are open to deals which involve NON-WATERFRONT property. An SSS would be a smaller investment.

MLS needs to put its collective heads together- maybe seeking a "Real Miami" or whatever. But if Marlins do leave (and its looking more and more likely), this is simply too good a market to leave alone

[Sempuukyaku]

The Marlins financing is looking in bad shape. Recent ESPN article says owner Loria enamored with Las Vegas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1788646

Loria, according to one of the most local popular sport radio guys, has not "tried" on this financing deal, and is looking for a way out.

It would be ludicrous for MLS not to do its best to re-establish a team in South Florida. You've got a metro area (from West Palm to Miami) of over 5 million. You've got high numbers of youth soccer, TV ratings for soccer, international exhibitions draw terrific. The Strikers- who ironically played in an era w/o MLB, would draw in 12-14k for several years.

Of course, it has to be done over and right (likely Miami). However, local Miami politicans are open to deals which involve NON-WATERFRONT property. An SSS would be a smaller investment.

MLS needs to put its collective heads together- maybe seeking a "Real Miami" or whatever. But if Marlins do leave (and its looking more and more likely), this is simply too good a market to leave alone


No COMMITTED I/O, No SSS, No team. Simple as that. If there's an I/O who's down there to promote the game of soccer while making a few bucks down the road, then I'm all for a return to Miami. Otherwise, forget it.

[denver_mugwamp]

The fact that the baseball team has won two championships and is thinking about moving should tell you something. To me, the only real shot that Miami has is to get an A League team and build up a decent fan base. If a team in South Florida could consistently show Rochester-like attendance, then someone would get interested. People posting whiney threads about not having a team hasn't worked in the past and will probably not work in the future.

[MiamiAce]

The fact that the baseball team has won two championships and is thinking about moving should tell you something. To me, the only real shot that Miami has is to get an A League team and build up a decent fan base. If a team in South Florida could consistently show Rochester-like attendance, then someone would get interested. People posting whiney threads about not having a team hasn't worked in the past and will probably not work in the future.

They're thinking about moving for 2 reasons. 1. The County and City of Miami do not want to approve some decent land to build a baseball-only stadium for the team. 2. The County, Florida govt., and Cities (Miami, Miami Beach, etc) do not want to allocate enough money (tourist revenues, County funds, sales-tax rebates) for the sake of building a stadium. In a nutshell: Miami-Dade County and the Florida govt. are greedy. It has nothing to do with the fans of Miami. As for the "Miami" Fusion, you can't blame the fans of Miami when the "Miami" Fusion didn't even play in their own city. Believe me, with the HUGE population of South and Central Americans in Miami, an MLS team would do real good if they played IN Miami.

However, my dream would be for the Marlins to move out and for an MLS team to move into Miami.

[uclacarlos]

The fact that the baseball team has won two championships and is thinking about moving should tell you something.
Muggie,
I guess the honeymoon is over. After all, we barely speak, not even an argument in MONTHS!! So our current disagreement should come as no surprise... ;)

A major sport franchise leaving or considering leaving a town has much more to do w/ the complexities of big money sports in a late capitalist society. I know that you know that in today's sports market, it's not just about ppl in the gate, but additional sources of revenue and control of ancillary revenues. The Raiders and Rams left the LA Basin b/c of this, San Jose Quakes are considering moving (after exhausting all possibilities to stay w/in the Bay Area) b/c the lease at Spartan makes it impossible to turn a profit, and for the same reasons the Marlins are considering leaving. We could site case after case of franchises in almost all sports that face the problem of playing in municipally owned stadia that limit their revenue streams.

[denver_mugwamp]

A major sport franchise leaving or considering leaving a town has much more to do w/ the complexities of big money sports in a late capitalist society. I know that you know that in today's sports market, it's not just about ppl in the gate, but additional sources of revenue and control of ancillary revenues. The Raiders and Rams left the LA Basin b/c of this, San Jose Quakes are considering moving (after exhausting all possibilities to stay w/in the Bay Area) b/c the lease at Spartan makes it impossible to turn a profit, and for the same reasons the Marlins are considering leaving. We could site case after case of franchises in almost all sports that face the problem of playing in municipally owned stadia that limit their revenue streams.

Carlos, you may be right. Sports teams have become the modern equivalent of a horde of barbarians--raping and pillaging a city before moving on. But I grew up in Florida, and I tend to believe that the huge number of retired people tend to hold down wages and thus disposable income. This, coupled with a reluctance of people on fixed incomes to approve tax increases, makes it pretty difficult for a major sports team to gather what they consider their fair share of loot. Could this be a factor in the desire of the Marlins to move on?

By the way, if we're now in the "late capitalist society", could you fill me in on the future. I hate being late and I'd like to be early for whatever is next.

[AndyMead]

MLS needs to put its collective heads together- maybe seeking a "Real Miami" or whatever. But if Marlins do leave (and its looking more and more likely), this is simply too good a market to leave alone

If it's such a great market then why are the Marlins, Heat, and Panthers all threatening to leave?

Sounds like the worst market of all-time.

[DoyleG]

If it's such a great market then why are the Marlins, Heat, and Panthers all threatening to leave?

Sounds like the worst market of all-time.

No argument there.

[Calexico77]

By the way, if we're now in the "late capitalist society", could you fill me in on the future. I hate being late and I'd like to be early for whatever is next.

It's all about Computers. They can do all kinds of things now: Pay bills, write letters, Play games - even send electronic mail (which the cyber-savvy call "email").


At least that's what my broker tells me.

[Treetaliano]

This thread has Mike Segroves written all over it.

[jri]

Miami is a good market. You guys, like Horowitz, don't understand it.

MLS could help matters (raise exposure) by courtesy trips..

[AndyMead]

MLS could help matters (raise exposure) by courtesy trips..

You mean like spring training games every year, as well as a US Men's game every year?

Yeah, I guess they could do that. :rolleyes:

[Brownswan]

If real fans were there we'd see A-League teams all over the place -- maybe even a winter 'Florida League' fo pro or semi-pro teams. There may be interest in one-off matches and high-profile friendlies, but probably no enought to sustain a league -- or even a team in MLS.

It's just too hot to play there in summer, and there are too many other things for people to do -- like stay home and keep cool.

My wife and I still plan to move there, and I hope there is an A-League or USL team around to support. If not, I'll go watch the kids play and catch MLS on the tube. The guy iin Tampa just bought more shares in Man U. If MLS could happen in Florida, I figure he'd already be an I/O.

[jri]

Guys. It is not so simple as the Fusion failed, therefore soccer can never work in Miami.

Looking at past data, KC would have been one of the last places one would have thought soccer should have a go. And sure, Uncle Lamar supported/floated the concept thru a few lean years. But through aggressive and interesting marketing, they are now drawing pretty decent crowds there. It is/was a matter of plugging away, blocking/tackling and figuring out what works. But KC (for outdoor soccer) had a very lame soccer history. I don't believe they ever had any sort of A-League team either (in late 80s or early 90s)....Lame, lame..

Columbus Ohio? No history at all really (with pro soccer)

You need to understand the longer term vision that if the Marlins leave- there will be no pro baseball here for at least a decade, maybe more. Soccer/MLS would have unfettered access to go after a humungous market.

Miami is not as bad a pro sports market as some make out. There have been some plausible reasons for Pathers (btw- there are many warm weather hockey markets that are not doing THAT great) and Marlins (btw- Marlins are averaging 31k a game so far this year). Heat's numbers I don't believe have been that poor, but if you are using that argument, why is MLS even looking at Cleveland (look how poor Cleveland's NBA drew pre-La Bron).

10+ years with no competition from MLB, a huge and interested latent soccer population. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the marketing answers here (it is some trial and error), but over course of years- it would get figured out (a la KC), and you would see improvement. If you did doubleheader for 1/3 of the games alone (would be easy to do), you would easily get to the 15k average of MLS game, and likely closer to 20k then 15k.

It would have to be done right, but it could be done. There is also non-waterfront development- certain areas of Miami- that Miami council would be interested/very interested in talking to ANYONE about. Miami is such an international city- there is really potential if harvested correctly.

Feelers need to be put out. There needs to be a continuing presence of MLS in some form or fashion.

Finally, do not compare Tampa and Miami. Very different markets.

[Andy_B]

In regards to professional Miami sports teams, here is some basic attendance data


Dolphins
2000 73,738 (7th out of 31)
2001 73,508 (7th out of 31)
2002 73,190 (7th out of 32)
2003 73,473 (6th out of 32)

Heat
2002-3 15,322 (22nd out of 29)
2003-4 15,207 (24th out of 29)

Marlins
2001 15,765 (29th out of 30)
2002 10,038 (29th out of 30)
2003 16,290 (28th out of 30)

Panthers
2000-1 14,557 (26th out of 30)
2001-2 16,083 (18th out of 30)
2002-3 15,428 (20th out of 30)
2003-4 15,936 (17th out of 30)

Andy

[denver_mugwamp]

The truth is that all the stuff about Miami being a great sports town or not doesn't really matter. If Miami wants a team, all they really need is an investor who is passionate about soccer and willing to do whatever it takes to build a siccessful MLS team. Does anybody here know of a person who resembles that description? No? Well, I guess we're just wasting bits and wearing out the tips of our fingers for nothing.

[jri]

You mean like spring training games every year, as well as a US Men's game every year?

Yeah, I guess they could do that. :rolleyes:

No, I mean an MLS exhibition each year (or regular season game) in Orange Bowl during season (every year), plus meeting w/city council to generate some pub for the concept (step-forward investor in Miami). Keep MLS (not "soccer") in headlines for a while- give the concept a boost..

If you want a major league, and you think rumaging around OKC etc is the way to go- I'd say that is short-sighted (and basically kills the chance for soccer ever to have a true national footprint). In the major markets in which you can potentially make it work, you've got to keep things 'humming'...

[SoFla Metro]

If it's such a great market then why are the Marlins, Heat, and Panthers all threatening to leave?

Sounds like the worst market of all-time.
The Hurricanes would move it they could.

[SoFla Metro]

No, I mean an MLS exhibition each year (or regular season game) in Orange Bowl during season (every year)
I realize it's not MLS, but the Great Coming of American Soccer played down here last week, against Haiti, and the game didn't draw 11,000. The men's team played down here last year and didn't break 10,000.


plus meeting w/city council to generate some pub for the concept (step-forward investor in Miami).

Do you have any idea why the Fusion a) didn't play in the Orange bowl and b) were called the Miami Fusion?


Keep MLS (not "soccer") in headlines for a while- give the concept a boost..

I don't read the Herald, but there's no shortage of soccer coverage in the Sun-Sentinel


If you want a major league, and you think rumaging around OKC etc is the way to go- I'd say that is short-sighted (and basically kills the chance for soccer ever to have a true national footprint). In the major markets in which you can potentially make it work, you've got to keep things 'humming'...
Again, of the four major sports teams down here, three are threatening or have threatened to move. How major a market is this really for sports?

[texgator]

Okay, so you guys say that we shouldn't point to a possible move out of the city by The Marlins as an indication that its a poor sports town. Fair enough. But it does indicate a municipal structure that is not conducive to financial assistance for sports franchises. If I am in MLS HQ right now, that is an issue I look at very closely. How is an SSS being built in Frisco? Through a partership of public and private $$. How is an SSS being built in Bridgeview? Through a partnership of public and private $$. This is the new model in MLS for building stadiums, guys. If I am a potential SoFla investor and I see what the city/county(s)/state have done, or more accurately not done, for professional sports that is a big problem for me. Heck, why should I lay out $20 million for franchise fee, $3 million a year annually for expenses and then be expected to shell out $40 million to build or renovate a stadium when I know that there are cities/counties/states that are willing to help me foot the bill. I shouldn't and I won't. And I don't have a good feeling that SoFla municipalities will be willing to work with me. So, even if you find that non-existent potential owner, you better hope he is willing to overlook the region's lack of governmental support. And no decent businesman will do that.