What should Boca's position from the USMNT be?

[kool-aide]

bocanegra to left back opens up the chance for him to start...

but it's delusional to think he's better than either gooch/boca....

I think there is a different btwn being a better player and making up a better on field unit.

I, too, would like to see Boca on the left w/ Gooch-DeMerit in the middle to see how that would work.

[Karl K]

I, too, would like to see Boca on the left w/ Gooch-DeMerit in the middle to see how that would work.

I wouldn't.

Bocanegra is too slow to play on the outside in the international game. And against a Spain, you are courting ever MORE disaster than what is likely to befall you anyway.

[kool-aide]

I wouldn't.

Bocanegra is too slow to play on the outside in the international game. And against a Spain, you are courting ever MORE disaster than what is likely to befall you anyway.

I didn't actually mean on Wed. but since I didn't specify and you can't read my mind, fair enough. If he was to play left back on Wed, then my preference would be that he not be asked to go as far forward as Bornstein has been (or not as often) while playing the position.

[arkjayback]

I wouldn't.

Bocanegra is too slow to play on the outside in the international game. And against a Spain, you are courting ever MORE disaster than what is likely to befall you anyway.
Does Spector have blazing speed? Does Cherundolo? Has the athleticism of Pearce and Bornstein benefitted the US much in the last 2 years?

Bocanegra has played in Ligue 1 at the left back position. I'm sure he has gotten used to playing against wingers with superior speed.

[Sachin]

Does Spector have blazing speed? Does Cherundolo? Has the athleticism of Pearce and Bornstein benefitted the US much in the last 2 years?

Bocanegra has played in Ligue 1 at the left back position. I'm sure he has gotten used to playing against wingers with superior speed.

Have you seen Boca play left back for Rennes?

[Nutmeg]

France is consistently rated as the 4th best league behind England, Spain, and Italy. Boca is good enough to be a LB on one of France's best teams this past year. The logic doesn't add up.

[Sachin]

France is consistently rated as the 4th best league behind England, Spain, and Italy. Boca is good enough to be a LB on one of France's best teams this past year. The logic doesn't add up.

Because Boca plays as a stay-at-home left back. Basically, when he overlaps into the attack, it's by accident. He's a good player for SRFC, but let's not imagine that he plays the way Bob wants his backs to play.

[Karl K]

Does Spector have blazing speed? Does Cherundolo? Has the athleticism of Pearce and Bornstein benefitted the US much in the last 2 years?

Spector is a lot faster than you think. Cherundolo (at least the uninjured Cherundolo) is also quite quick. It's why he's had a productive career in the Bundesliga (while DeMerit and Bocanegra are no longer in one of the "Big 4" leagues.

Pearce and Bornstein have their flaws -- as do all of our players, frankly -- but they will not be beaten for speed (though Pearce is slower).


Bocanegra has played in Ligue 1 at the left back position. I'm sure he has gotten used to playing against wingers with superior speed.

Sorry, Ligue 1 is not international soccer -- yes, even CONCACAF international soccer -- but rather a second tier league. Remember, CONCACAF has wingers like Carlos Edwards, a blazing speedster who rightly plays in the EPL.

Trust me, it's not a good idea to have Bocanegra out there.

[Nutmeg]

...let's not imagine that he plays the way Bob wants his backs to play.
Neither do Bornstein or Pearce. Or Beasley. None of them provide the attacking element out of the back we'd all like them to. If you're not getting the attack, you may as well get the best defense you can.

Personally, I think Cherundolo or Spector swapped to the left side is our best bet. But I'd like Boca as a stay at home option if the situation calls for it.

[Karl K]

France is consistently rated as the 4th best league behind England, Spain, and Italy. Boca is good enough to be a LB on one of France's best teams this past year. The logic doesn't add up.

Curious as to who does these ratings.

Meanwhile, if Bocanegra is so good, why didn't another EPL team pick him up when Fulham let him go so readily (and they LIKE Americans there)? If he's so great, a Newcastle or a Middlesbrough should have snapped him right up.

Maybe, just maybe, he's not as good either inside or outside as some think.

[Cujo1126]

France is consistently rated as the 4th best league behind England, Spain, and Italy. Boca is good enough to be a LB on one of France's best teams this past year. The logic doesn't add up.

Just posted this in another thread.

Boca does't play outside back at Rennes!

CB-----CB-----Bocanegra

When you play a 3-5-2, there are 3 center backs and NO outside backs.


This position:
CB---CB---CB

is more similar to this position:
RB---CB---CB---LB

than it is similar to this position:
RB---CB---CB---LB

[moytoy12]

Pearce and Bornstein have their flaws -- as do all of our players, frankly -- but they will not be beaten for speed (though Pearce is slower).



Pearce was repeatedly beaten by speed against Guatemala (or was it Honduras...the past 10 games are running together at this point).

[Nutmeg]

Boca does't play outside back at Rennes!
I've watched Rennes a few times. They most definitely do play a back 4, and Boca is most definitely a LB.

[ArsenalMetro]

Curious as to who does these ratings.

UEFA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefa_coefficients#League_coefficient

[Nutmeg]

Karl, you're missing my point.

I don't want Boca starting. I don't think he's that good a defender. I am not arguing he is. I'm saying our other options (Bornstein, Pearce, Beasley) are that bad.

But hopefully this tournament opened Bob's eyes that Spector should be on the field as a fullback. Cherundolo on the right and Spector on the left.

Bocanegra left out. DeMeritt is no polished defender, but he's a better CB than Boca.

[TrueCrew]

Sorry, Ligue 1 is not international soccer -- yes, even CONCACAF international soccer -- but rather a second tier league. Remember, CONCACAF has wingers like Carlos Edwards, a blazing speedster who rightly plays in the EPL.

Trust me, it's not a good idea to have Bocanegra out there.

Sorry Karl, but you've just got your facts wrong.

According to UEFA, France has been on a see saw with Germany over the last 10 years. It's is hard to argue they are consistently lower than the German league.

It would be more accurate to put the Bundesliga in Tier 2 with France, rather than up with Spain, Italy, and England.

Here's the last 10 years:

2009-2010: Germany 4th, France 5th
2005-2008: France 4th, Germany 5th
2001-2004: Germany 4th, France 5th

2000 was the last year the England, Spain, Italy trio weren't 1-2-3.

2000: Germany 3rd, France 4th, England 5th
1999: Germany 3rd, France 4th, Netherlands 5th, England 6th

France even had a nice run at #2 (ahead of Germany) from 1993-1996.

[Rainer24]

France is consistently rated as the 4th best league behind England, Spain, and Italy. Boca is good enough to be a LB on one of France's best teams this past year. The logic doesn't add up.


Nitpicking, but France was ranked fourth for a couple of years and has now slipped back behind the Bundesliga in the UEFA coefficient.

The logic does add up. Bocanegra is asked to sit back and lock down his area for Rennes. He hardly makes any runs forward and doesn't have the recovery speed to catch speedy wingers if he gets caught up field. That just isn't going to work at the international level.

[superdave]

Bocanegra is too slow to play on the outside in the international game. And against a Spain, you are courting ever MORE disaster than what is likely to befall you anyway.
So? Bornstein isn't strong enough physically or positionally for the international game.

But we gotta put SOMEONE out there.
He's a good player for SRFC, but let's not imagine that he plays the way Bob wants his backs to play.
That's one of the things I don't like about Bob.

Meanwhile, if Bocanegra is so good, why didn't another EPL team pick him up when Fulham let him go so readily (and they LIKE Americans there)? If he's so great, a Newcastle or a Middlesbrough should have snapped him right up.
Allow me to point out that neither club has gone after Pearce or Bornstein, either. Again, we can't just leave out a position because we don't have anyone you deem good enough.

I guess one option is Spector at LB and either Steve C. or Hejduk at RB. But that's not something Bob wants to try, either.

[Nutmeg]

That just isn't going to work at the international level.
Jesus, my "animo" for this is running thin. If you cannot imagine a situation where having a tall, strong defender staying home at LB can help you, then I assume we're done discussing the topic.

If you're arguing against an argument that Carlos Bocanegra should be our LB forever and for always, then you're burning straw men.

[appoo]

What game? I recall that Lewis played LB against the Czechs. Did Boca play there the next two matches?

Yes. Did fairly well from what I remember.

And I apologize as I've helped derail this thread. Let me create a Carlos Bocanegra thread.