Is our player pool good enough?

[mfw13]

Let's face it, the real issue is the poor quality of players that Bradley has to choose from, not the choices he makes.

- Our top striker is so good that he is stuck on the bench of a team in the Spanish second division.

- Our central defenders are so good that they can't even hold a job in the Premier League.

- We've got exactly five players good enough to be holding down a starting job in one of Europe's big five leagues (Howard, Dempsey, Bradley, Cherundolo, and Bocanegra).

- We've got no viable wingers and no real left back.

Look at our roster compared to the teams we play. How many of our players would even make the 23-man roster of teams like Spain, Brazil, and Italy? Howard and Donovan probably, Bradley maybe, and that's about it.

Considering how little talent he actually has to work with, Bradley is actually doing a pretty damn good job, IMHO.

[Reccossu]

A great coach can beat your'n with his'n and then take your'n and beat his'n.

Now it's hard to find a great coach, but when you know you have found one that's not, shouldn't you keep looking?

[mfw13]

Now it's hard to find a great coach, but when you know you have found one that's not, shouldn't you keep looking?

Not when you are one year out from a World Cup. And let's face it, using the standards being applied to Bradley on this board, probably 99% of the coaches out there (i.e. everybody except Hiddink, Mourinho, Ferguson, and Wenger) are not great coaches.

[mette72]

Not when you are one year out from a World Cup. And let's face it, using the standards being applied to Bradley on this board, probably 99% of the coaches out there (i.e. everybody except Hiddink, Mourinho, Ferguson, and Wenger) are not great coaches.

Just look at the recent US performances.....El Salvador, Costa Rica, Honduras, Italy, Brazil, Egypt......why not have a coach who can get the US to perform at a high level. I am not talking about results, thinking that we can win all those matches is stupid. However, how about playing well in a loss against top teams (example, against Germany in WC 2002). Bob Bradley is simply unable to get those results from the US on a regular basis. I AM OF THE OPINION that a good coach would be able to do this. There are hundreds of examples of good coaches getting average teams to win, in virtually every sport. And believe it or not, there are teams that win in every sport without the "world class players."

[SUDano]

Let's face it, the real issue is the poor quality of players that Bradley has to choose from, not the choices he makes.

- Our top striker is so good that he is stuck on the bench of a team in the Spanish second division.

- Our central defenders are so good that they can't even hold a job in the Premier League.

- We've got exactly five players good enough to be holding down a starting job in one of Europe's big five leagues (Howard, Dempsey, Bradley, Cherundolo, and Bocanegra).

- We've got no viable wingers and no real left back.

Look at our roster compared to the teams we play. How many of our players would even make the 23-man roster of teams like Spain, Brazil, and Italy? Howard and Donovan probably, Bradley maybe, and that's about it.

Considering how little talent he actually has to work with, Bradley is actually doing a pretty damn good job, IMHO.

It sucks to play down a man for half the time vs 2 top 5 teams in Italy and Brazil. Now that really sucks.

[TulkasTheStrong]

It sucks to play down a man for half the time vs 2 top 5 teams in Italy and Brazil. Now that really sucks.

Yeah, and against costa rica and el salvador... oh wait, that was part of a different trend... what was it again?

[SUDano]

Yeah, and against costa rica and el salvador... oh wait, that was part of a different trend... what was it again?

Is your point we should never lose or tie a road game in CONCACAF?

[appoo]

I'm merging this with the "Bob Must Stay" thread

[mfw13]

Bob Bradley is simply unable to get those results from the US on a regular basis.

And what manager that is available right now would?

Hell, even the best managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, and Hiddink don't even get "good" results they want on a regular basis. Look at all the winnable games that they drew or lost this year! Time to find a better manager!

The truth is that no manager is consistently good. The US muddles through WC qualifiers because many of the matches take place in the middle of the European season, players are tired, and we know that we can get away with it. And in case you didn't notice, we were outplaying Italy until Clark got wrongfully sent off.

We've played six halves in the Confederations Cup so far....three good ones, two average ones, and one bad one. Considering the opposition we were up against and the talent we have, that's pretty good in my book.

[Mullet&Talon]

And what manager that is available right now would?

Hell, even the best managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, and Hiddink don't even get "good" results they want on a regular basis. Look at all the winnable games that they drew or lost this year! Time to find a better manager!

The truth is that no manager is consistently good. The US muddles through WC qualifiers because many of the matches take place in the middle of the European season, players are tired, and we know that we can get away with it. And in case you didn't notice, we were outplaying Italy until Clark got wrongfully sent off.

We've played six halves in the Confederations Cup so far....three good ones, two average ones, and one bad one. Considering the opposition we were up against and the talent we have, that's pretty good in my book.

This is the stupdiest thing I've ever read on BS. All four get good results on a consistent basis; you don't win trophies without getting good results on a consistent basis.

[morrissey]

No - wrong.

It is not that our player pool sucks it our sucky coach only plays the sucky part of our player pool.

James

[appoo]

I'm merging this with the "Bob Must Stay" thread


thread title changed to put emphasis on the player pool

[flyerhawk]

And believe it or not, there are teams that win in every sport without the "world class players."

I think some of you guys have watched Hoosiers one too many times.

When was the last time a team not named ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool finished in the top 4 of clubs in England?

The gap in talent between the USA and Italy, much less Brazil, is vast. Coaching can help overcome that a little but in the end talent is the largest factor in determining success.

[flyerhawk]

No - wrong.

It is not that our player pool sucks it our sucky coach only plays the sucky part of our player pool.

James

Wow. Comments like this are truly baffling.

Yes clearly the problem is that we aren't starting guys who can't even get playing time with their club.

[Mr Martin]

Let's face it, the real issue is the poor quality of players that Bradley has to choose from, not the choices he makes.


Ever read any threads started by Karl Keller? :D

I think BB is a drab, basic coach. I think there are dozens of better coaches who might consider taking the US job. But, I don't think BB has messed up enough to justify firing him -- he has basically accomplished everything he was supposed to accomplish so far.

Off the top of my head, BB's record against Top-10 teams is poor 0W-1T-6L:

Vs Brazil, 0-3 loss and 2-4 loss
Vs Italy, 1-3 loss
Vs England 0-2 loss
Vs Spain 0-1 loss
Vs Argentina 0-0 tie.

Against teams below the top 10, but within the top 40, BB's record is very good, something like this 9W-1T-2L:

Mexico, 2-2 tie, 2-0 win, 2-0 win, 2-1 win
Switzerland 1-0 win
Poland 3-0 win
Egypt 3-0 win
Sweden (A-team) 0-1 loss
Equador 3-1 win
Costa Rica 1-3 loss
Honduras 2-1 win
South Africa 1-0 win


I'm excluding the B-team matches at the Copa and the three weak B-team friendlies against Denmark and 2x with Sweden. But for those of you who insist on including these gems, feel free to add a loss to Argentina to the Top-10 list, losses to Columbia and Paraguay to the second tier, and wins over Demark and twice over Sweden to the 2nd tier list. It doesn't matter to me as long as you are consistant.

So, basically the US under Bob Bradley can't defeat Top-10 teams full of elite players, but generally can defeat the 2nd Tier nations with players more or less at the US level. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you! How could that be? :D


Anyway, I agree with your basic point, which is that the US player pool is the bigger fundamental issue than is the US manager.

[mfw13]

Mullet&Talon:

The point I was trying to make is that even the best managers with the best players regularly draw or lose games that they should win, something that all the people calling for Bradley's head might want to consider when evaluating his ability as a manager.

[morrissey]

Wow. Comments like this are truly baffling.

Yes clearly the problem is that we aren't starting guys who can't even get playing time with their club.

I'm glad you agree - we have players doing great with their clubs but nothing for our national team (Dempsey, Casey, Clark) those that are great for both club and country (Donovan) and those that don't play on their club team but seem to get the nod on the national team (Beasley).

We have a player pool that includes people like Torres (plays for his club team) and can't get on the field. Our player pool has a good amount of skilled players that can't crack our team because our coach likes role players above skill and creativity.

To get to the next level we need a tactician with a mind that can grasp the high level game and adjust if necessary. Bob is not that guy.

Cheers,
James

[UxSxAxfooty]

Mullet&Talon:

The point I was trying to make is that even the best managers with the best players regularly draw or lose games that they should win, something that all the people calling for Bradley's head might want to consider when evaluating his ability as a manager.
Then why are they the best coaches? Why do the big teams pay top dollar for them?

If the "best" coaches only have marginally better results, why not stick some bum in the dugout for 1/20th of the price?

I can only speak for myself, but the results Bradley has gotten are only tangentially related to the reasons I want him removed. My reasons, and those of many others, are more closely related to how we play.

[Karl K]

Ever read any threads started by Karl Keller? :D

Well, he won't have much of a chance if the moderators keep closing my threads because they aren't sufficiently fan-like and full of boosterism to their specific tastes at specific moments that they designate, moments when they arbitrarily decide it's not "appropriate."


I think BB is a drab, basic coach. I think there are dozens of better coaches who might consider taking the US job. But, I don't think BB has messed up enough to justify firing him -- he has basically accomplished everything he was supposed to accomplish so far.

Off the top of my head, BB's record against Top-10 teams is poor 0W-1T-6L:

Vs Brazil, 0-3 loss and 2-4 loss
Vs Italy, 1-3 loss
Vs England 0-2 loss
Vs Spain 0-1 loss
Vs Argentina 0-0 tie.

Against teams below the top 10, but within the top 40, BB's record is very good, something like this 9W-1T-2L:

Mexico, 2-2 tie, 2-0 win, 2-0 win, 2-1 win
Switzerland 1-0 win
Poland 3-0 win
Egypt 3-0 win
Sweden (A-team) 0-1 loss
Equador 3-1 win
Costa Rica 1-3 loss
Honduras 2-1 win
South Africa 1-0 win

I'm excluding the B-team matches at the Copa and the three weak B-team friendlies against Denmark and 2x with Sweden. But for those of you who insist on including these gems, feel free to add a loss to Argentina to the Top-10 list, losses to Columbia and Paraguay to the second tier, and wins over Demark and twice over Sweden to the 2nd tier list. It doesn't matter to me as long as you are consistant.

So, basically the US under Bob Bradley can't defeat Top-10 teams full of elite players, but generally can defeat the 2nd Tier nations with players more or less at the US level. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you! How could that be? :D

Anyway, I agree with your basic point, which is that the US player pool is the bigger fundamental issue than is the US manager.

Very good summary.

Another manager may be able to eke out a USA win or two against the top 10 teams...but maybe not. Nevertheless, as we've seen with Sven and Queiroz, a manager with a stellar resume may make things MUCH worse.

Many of the posters on here who loathe Bradley seem to have a difficult time imagining how MUCH worse another coach might be. They are smoking, as we say in the investment world, "hopium." They have a poverty of imagination.

[Asprilla9]

our player pool is terrible. and we're set-up more for 2014. i am expecting the US to qualify for the WC finals, but not advance out of the group stage. i felt that back in 2007 and it, unfortunately, has not changed. we need guys like Feilhaber and Altidore to be much better by now, but it's difficult, because no one's playing any club football. so i'm sticking with my prediction, and frankly, it's a prediction made independent of who the coach is.

Considering how little talent he actually has to work with, Bradley is actually doing a pretty damn good job, IMHO.

he's doing a decent/okay job. he has us 2nd in the HEX. he'll probably get us qualified, even if it comes down to the last matchday. i just don't think it's the same Herculean task (for US) that it was in 89, 97 and even 01. i think it's pretty easy for the US to qualify now.


what i want to see from Bradley is:

-- intensely motivated performances
-- players in the right spots on the field
-- team prepared for big games


09 really has been hit or miss in those 3 categories. again, none of those three have anything to do with player pool. a pub-league team can accomplish all three things. it's all about playing to your potential and maximizing your effort. that's what i put on the coach. as long as Bradley does those 3 things, then 'we're cool.'