Life after Titi?

[martymarts]

Some fans may think that there won't be, but, with all that is currently being put in place there most certainly will! But now that Real have made it official that TH14 is leaving, by denying any interest, I thought it might be interesting to speculate the Arsenal of the future; however near or far?

Of course Real's lack of interest could be because Titi is now too huge to buy? If he was worth more than £50m last year, what must he be worth today; £60m, £70m? Let's say the money was there! I don't think we'd get more than £35m up front and the rest would probably go to The Grove anyway!

So if Arsenal had £35m to make good the loss of TH14 how would you spend it?

[Beakmon FC]

I wouldn't waste your time and energy worrying/speculating about something that:

1. Has not happened
2. Probably will not happen
3. All of the above

[Martin Daoust]

Of course there will be life after Henry. But that said the club would be idiots to sell Henry now-end of. We are close to if not the Best Club in Europe on our day and at full fitness. We are in position to to be the World's Best and Biggest Football Club within three years right now. To sell Henry or Vieira or Pires or Campbell right now would sabotage all of that and destroy everything Arsene Wenger has built from the 2000 season. Which is a team with several world-class players some still yet to reach their peak as players, an excellent supporting cast that has gotten progressively younger itself, and a youth system that should finally begin to produce dividends the next few years, and the infrastructure to sustain this success for some time now in place. Now would be the LAST time to sell a player of Henry's caliber and quality and more importantly importance to the team's success. We would need 35 million just to replace his goal-scoring, goal-creating, and attacking roles. We would need another 20 million to re-structure our attack some to off-set the certain losses. Then we could worry about a Keeper, a Right-Back, a Centre-Half, and possibly a mid-field partner for Vieira another 20-25 million. About 80 million would be needed or there is no doubt that our team would be seriously weakened up front or unable to address the squad-building that this past month showed is needed to challenge for the European Cup or the Treble the next few years. Yes Reyes could replace Henry, but so can Sylvain Wiltord. There is no doubt Reyes is far superior as an all-around attacking footballer and will improve next year and each succeeding year, but can he replace Henry now on his own? Hardly. Selling Henry now, especially for less than 75 million UP FRONT would be suicidal-end of. If he is sold he will not be the last to leave-including Wenger. And if they leave the next two years, AG will only be a success the first year, as the team's performance will affect our gates at the new ground, and surely if Henry and others and Wenger all leave the team will spiral into decline for some period. We will support as fervently and lovingly as ever, but Gooners will NOT forgive the Board for running away from the chance at REAL Greatness so clearly here right now for Arsenal FC.
I believe the Board sees this-the comments about a job for life for Wenger at Arsenal FC would indicate this if that is the Board's true intention. If that is their desire selling Henry-or ANY player Wenger believes is essential to this team's success-would be a bad bargaining tactic to be sure and would send the wrong message to the players here after. It just makes no sense so we shouldn't expect it to happen, nor should we accept it would happen, or assume we can make out if it does happen. Selling Henry is ridiculous and that's why it shouldn't happen and in all likelihood won't happen and isn't worth speculating about because as above, there is no good speculation to be had...

[ZonaGunner]

I agree. Selling Henry would go against everything Wenger has done to build this squad and under current circumstances would simply never happen, barring a major curveball of some sort. And he's young enough that there's a good chance life after Henry will not happen for a good number of years.

[billyho96]

I don't want to stir this pot again, but soccernet did an article a few months back on the different stages of a Real Madrid take over of a player.

1. Step one was interest by Madrid
2. Step two was denial by Madrid
3. Step three actually buying the player.

we've seen steps one and two

[Achtung]

While those three steps usually occur, I think that another step quite often is some sort of rift between the player and his old environment.

Beckham - "boot incident" with SAF, left on the bench against Madrid, Ole takes over on the right wing
Ronaldo - didn't get on with Cuper, Italian press spread rumors about his wife, fans annoyed at his repeated injuries

Although I don't remember specific incidents with Zidane or Figo... so anything is possible.

[phishy]

i'm sure zidane's wife had something to do with him leaving Juve.. i know she's spanish and "persuaded" Monsieur Zidane to think about a move to the capital..

[terryhenry14]

Zidane's wife is Spanish.

Figo I don't know seems to be the mentality in Italy & Spain that if the money is right they will sell their best players to their rivals (citing Parma (Thuram, Chiesa, Crespo, Cannavaro), Fiorentina (Rui Costa, Toldo), Juventus (Inzaghi, Davids), Lazio (Nedved, Nesta, Crespo), Valencia (Gerard), Deportivo (Rivaldo), Real (Luis Enrique))

[martymarts]

Guys you've totally missed the point!!!

I'm not saying that Titi is leaving, I'm saying cast your imagination into the ether, and if there were no Titi, and you were Arsene Wenger with £35m what would you do? It's a what if scenario not an oooohhh no he's going one!

Cor, I dunno!!!

[terryhenry14]

Buy him back?

No to be honest who could we get for £35M that could replace him, in fact the only thing we could do is get the two second best players in the world to replace him, whoever they maybe but would they neccesarily improve us by enough to compensate for the pace that Henry offers?

[phishy]

Buy him back?

No to be honest who could we get for £35M that could replace him, in fact the only thing we could do is get the two second best players in the world to replace him, whoever they maybe but would they neccesarily improve us by enough to compensate for the pace that Henry offers?


not in my mind.. buying him back would be the best answer.. genius terry... haha

[michaec]

Guys you've totally missed the point!!!

I'm not saying that Titi is leaving, I'm saying cast your imagination into the ether, and if there were no Titi, and you were Arsene Wenger with £35m what would you do? It's a what if scenario not an oooohhh no he's going one!

Cor, I dunno!!! I think I got your point. And while I don't think that the board would entertain selling him, imagine what we could do wth the £70m+ that we would be able to get for him (more likely from Chelsea). I know it's heresy and I myself would br up in arms if it came about, but you have to be realistic.

[Rick B]

I think I got your point. And while I don't think that the board would entertain selling him, imagine what we could do wth the £70m+ that we would be able to get for him (more likely from Chelsea). I know it's heresy and I myself would br up in arms if it came about, but you have to be realistic.

Oh bugger, we're agreeing again...........!!

As much as we all would love Henry to be playing at Arsenal in the way he is doing for the next fifty years, it isn't going to happen. That is not Football. With a very few exceptions (Maldini, Toti) Great footballers do not stay at one club. End of story. Sorry but we can not just think about the 'moment'. We have a future, and if we can really get £70million for Henry, we have to think about it. It would go a long way towards an expensive stadium and would probably secure the future of Arsenal Football Club for the next 15 years. Im sorry, but I don't want to be watching rubbish in my seat ten years from now because we arnt playing attractive football, therefore not attracting fans from all over the place and therefore in financial s**t Leeds style.

[martymarts]

Y'all doin it to annoy me aren't ya? Well it's working!

So I'll start the ball rolling! First I'd but Roy Mackaay and Owen Hargreeves from BM, which would be £30m gone and the other £5m I'd use to buy Shaun Wright Phillips. I'd also like to have Stephan Carr, but that can come from other transfer fees!

[Martin Daoust]

If I understand you correctly, RickBreese, then you should be dead against selling Henry at this point-as he is the most attractive aspect of our attractive style by far and IS Arsenal to those who are not Gooners, as well as the player through whom most of our more attractive attacks go or finish. It would be sheer lunacy to sell him now no matter the money offered because there is no one player who can come close to adequately replacing him in our team or its tactics. And given how close we are in fact to winning the European Cup and yes even the Treble right now, it would be foolish to try and re-build the team and certainly halt the amazing progress this team has made to this point. Some have said we spurned our best chance to win either the European Cup or the Treble this year. I daresay our best chance is ahead over the next several years given the quality and youth of this side. But if we sell Henry or Vieira or even Pires or Kolo Toure or Sol Campbell we will surely have given up that chance. And sell Henry and you will have sold most if not all of them and Wenger too, and no matter how much money we get for any of them if there is no one here to use it responsibly that money will be pointless. Arsenal are staring at True Footballing Greatness after seven decades-now is not the time to turn away to cash in, but now is the time to go forward and to make history. We can only hope and I do believe the Board understands this and will ignore the lure of the quick money that will buy nothing but the right to wonder what might have been, and hold onto whay yet can be...

[VaVaVoom]

I feel sorry for Martymarts who started this thread, but this has turned into a more important discussion of whether we'd ever sell Henry. The quick opinion is: NO! The slightly longer version is: NOOOOOO!

Rick made of point of saying that great footballers (with a few exceptions) don't stay at one club their whole career (end of story). I don't agree, and this holds especially true for the handful of clubs that are built on extremely strong foundations (financially, performance/consistency, stability of management, etc.). For example, clubs such as Arsenal, ManU & AC Milan never have to sell a player, regardless of the size of the bid. The only reasons a club sells a player is:

1. Financially required (lower wages, fund wages, not able to resign, etc.)
2. Performance related (they have or can get someone better)
3. Player driven (he wants out)

None of these hold true for Henry, and none look to be relevant for the foreseable future. There may come a day when he wants a new challenge or can't perform up to the standard of Reyes & Bentley, and then the story may change. But, even then, if he doesn't want to go, I doubt he would be sold (as long as Dein & Wenger are in charge -- it's not the way they operate). I can't recall one player who was important to the team, who wanted to stay, and was sold on anyway.

Marty, as for your original question, maybe it would draw more of what you're looking for if the situation was not that we decided to sell Henry for £35m, but that he was injured and the insurance policy that the club must have on their most valuable asset was cashed in for £35m.

Sooooo, if that were the case, I'd buy 2 or 3 from my following short list...

- Strikers: Fernando Torres from Atletico Madrid and/or a more experienced striker (Trez, Morientes Larsson or Eto)
- Central Mid: Xavi Alosnso from Real Sociodad (probably too expensive as Real Madrid are after him) or Kim Kallstrom from Rennes (20 yr. old left footed Swede doing very well for the national team). Also, a more realistic choice may be Peter Luccin from Celta Vigo (especially if they go down)
- Left/Right Mid: Rafael van de Vaart from Ajax (can play left or central; very classy) or Jaoquin from Betis (best young right winger out there)
- Defenders: Lucio from Leverkusen or some great young Italian right back that I don't know of
- Keepers: Sebastien Frey of Parma

Hmmmmm, maybe that insurance policy needs to be for more than £35m...

[ZonaGunner]

I gotta agree with Martin and Vavavoom. Selling Henry would be penny wise and pound foolish, even for 70 million. The short term monetary gain, which admittedly would be sizable, would be more than counterbalanced by the long term loss. If Henry were sold in such a manner, it would be enormously disruptive to team chemistry and I think you'd see Viera, followed by others, looking seriously at leaving the club. And given that I don't think Wenger would ever approve of selling Henry, which would mean it would be the board overriding Wenger. And I think in such a situation Wenger might give more serious thought to taking another top job in Europe or going back to Japan or something. It would signal that Arsenal don't want to keep their top players and that they really don't want to be the best team in Europe, as at least for now, I don't see anybody coming in and contributing at the same level and with the same chemistry and flow as Henry does. Sometimes in these situations, the intangibles far outweigh the lure of something tangible. Keep the team improving as it has, and the financial situation will be there and the club will be all around more healthy and successful going forward.

[themodelcitizen]

with all that money buy up pavel nedved and a young forward...

[Rick B]

Rick made of point of saying that great footballers (with a few exceptions) don't stay at one club their whole career (end of story). I don't agree, and this holds especially true for the handful of clubs that are built on extremely strong foundations (financially, performance/consistency, stability of management, etc.). For example, clubs such as Arsenal, ManU & AC Milan never have to sell a player, regardless of the size of the bid. The only reasons a club sells a player is:



Sorry to say it but your wrong. That just isn't true. Arsenal DO sometimes have to sell a player for other reasons. And those reasons are that if the offer is good enough and will bring in enough money to make the club more secure in the long term, then it will be taken. Overmars for example. He was a great player and would of been happy to stay if we had turned down Barca. But that money helped us build what we have now.

And im sorry to give you a heartbreak, but please be realistic. I am a huge fan and I have supported Arsenal from birth, but financially talking about us in the same sentance as Man U and Milan? Come on. We can dream, but we also have to be realistic. On Financial scales we are about level with Newcastle in the Premiership because of the huge cost of the new stadium. We are no-where near the likes of Man U, Milan, Barca, Madrid, Inter and a whole host of other top European sides. They have been at the top of European competition for 20 years, we've not even won the trophy once yet, and have only been capable of being a force in Europe for 4 years.

Even Man U have to consider EVERY offer they get because they are a PLC. They have to look to their major shareholders to decide whether to accept an offer or not. (hence why they are probably going to sell Ruud to Madrid). Milan, Barca, Madrid are no different. If a player is wanted by another club for silly money, they take it. Becausethats how you secure the FUTURE of the club. It doesn't revolve around one player. I want to be sitting in my seat 10 years from now in a great stadium, with an even better team. The money to achieve that doesn't grow on tree's, and we would never sell out to someone like Abrohamovich as he would ruin the club's long term future.

[Martin Daoust]

Sorry to say it but your wrong. That just isn't true. Arsenal DO sometimes have to sell a player for other reasons. And those reasons are that if the offer is good enough and will bring in enough money to make the club more secure in the long term, then it will be taken. Overmars for example. He was a great player and would of been happy to stay if we had turned down Barca. But that money helped us build what we have now.

And im sorry to give you a heartbreak, but please be realistic. I am a huge fan and I have supported Arsenal from birth, but financially talking about us in the same sentance as Man U and Milan? Come on. We can dream, but we also have to be realistic. On Financial scales we are about level with Newcastle in the Premiership because of the huge cost of the new stadium. We are no-where near the likes of Man U, Milan, Barca, Madrid, Inter and a whole host of other top European sides. They have been at the top of European competition for 20 years, we've not even won the trophy once yet, and have only been capable of being a force in Europe for 4 years.

Even Man U have to consider EVERY offer they get because they are a PLC. They have to look to their major shareholders to decide whether to accept an offer or not. (hence why they are probably going to sell Ruud to Madrid). Milan, Barca, Madrid are no different. If a player is wanted by another club for silly money, they take it. Becausethats how you secure the FUTURE of the club. It doesn't revolve around one player. I want to be sitting in my seat 10 years from now in a great stadium, with an even better team. The money to achieve that doesn't grow on tree's, and we would never sell out to someone like Abrohamovich as he would ruin the club's long term future.
Obviously I strongly disagree with Rick on this, not because he is wrong, but because he is wrong in THIS case. Selling Henry alone would require a re-building of the strike force and the attack as a whole given Henry's role as catalyst of foward movements and creator of goals more than any other forward on Earth. If we do set out to do it, even for the sake of argument with some success what about the needs that already exist-how do we afford to address them as well? And as ZonaGunner pointed out even better we cannot be certain that Vieira or Pires or Toure or Edu or most importantly Wenger would want to stay if we sold Henry at this time. If we lose them Wenger especially I doubt that even 100 million pounds would achieve what Rick would hope it will. Of course players move on in football-in every sport really-but the key here is timing. This team kept together the next three years could win a half-dozen or more competitions, including the European Cup and the Treble is hardly beyond it if we are just a couple of players deeper and weeks fitter. This team has won four trophies in three years which is better than ANY Arsenal side over that span, and will be the first team to win silverware three straight years since Herbert Chapman was managing at Highbury-before nearly all of I imagine were alive. And this team is hardly at its peak yet. To risk the potential of what this team can do; indeed to risk this team period would indeed put us in the same category as the Boston Red Sox when they sold Babe Ruth to a team that had not won anything-and became the winningest team ever in baseball while the Red Sox have won nothing since. We do not need to re-build for the future now-the future IS now, and the players of our future are with a few exception the players of our present...Particularly Thierry Henry...