September edition - the Ursuline 100

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by wu-tang beez
...Excuse me for wanting a defensive player 1st and a offensive threat 2nd. If 2 guys are essentially equal in marking but one excells on offense, than that should be the deal maker, but the guys who've been mentioned so far on the back aren't the stalwarts of their predecessors.
...



Well you can want whatever you want, once you get your own team. However, Arena puts a lot more emphasis on attacking out of the back -- or at least getting forward -- than you do. Since this thread is about the chances of guys to make it pm Arena's USMNT, not Wu tang's, that seems a little more relevant.

In International soccer you have to have at least 7, if not 8 guys, who can attack to do well ... like the quarters of the World Cup.

[Karl K]

Originally posted by wu-tang beez
When I watch Garcia, I see the guys he's defending disappear.

When Peter Nowak was the guy he defended, Nick was the one who evaporated.

[The Wanderer]

I've got money that Garcia never becomes a mainstay on the Nats. Fine MLS player, but he doesn't have the distribution skills to play dmid or right back IMHO.

I should have said that Davis should get a call up at the position he's playing---not left back.

[Preston North End]

Kansas City has not played 4-4-2 under Gansler on a consistent basis. The few times they have Nick Garcia did not play as a outside back.

When KC plays 3-5-2, Garcia is a marking or zonal CENTERback in Gansler's system. The wingers, thus wingbacks, cover the wings. Gansler uses three central defenders in his back three.

Garcia is a centerback in MLS.

IMO, Garcia is good with the ball at his feet and can pass (better than Mastroeni). His challenges leave a little to be desired (probably why Arena has yet to Cap him). His positioning is good, however. He is also not as slow as everyone likes to think he is, but he is not fast enough to play as a wingback.

I could see him playing as an outside back in 4-4-2, however. The problem with this is Arena likes attacking outside backs. This is Garcia's one drawback - he hasn't had to attack since college. Given time as an outside in MLS he could develope into one. I think he could be a good one, but I don't want Arena using him there.

I think he could be an option as a holding d-mid, such as Leo Cullen has been in the past - albeit briefly, for Arena. If he were to get better with his challenges/tackles, he could develope into a very good d-mid at the international level (see Mastroeni who is basically the same size as Garcia, but quicker).

I don't see him having a future as a central defender at the international level, but it is not out of the realm of possibilities.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Preston North End
Kansas City has not played 4-4-2 under Gansler on a consistent basis. The few times they have Nick Garcia did not play as a outside back.

When KC plays 3-5-2, Garcia is a marking or zonal CENTERback in Gansler's system. The wingers, thus wingbacks, cover the wings. Gansler uses three central defenders in his back three.

Garcia is a centerback in MLS.

IMO, Garcia is good with the ball at his feet and can pass (better than Mastroeni). His challenges leave a little to be desired (probably why Arena has yet to Cap him). His positioning is good, however. He is also not as slow as everyone likes to think he is, but he is not fast enough to play as a wingback.

I could see him playing as an outside back in 4-4-2, however. The problem with this is Arena likes attacking outside backs. This is Garcia's one drawback - he hasn't had to attack since college. Given time as an outside in MLS he could develope into one. I think he could be a good one, but I don't want Arena using him there.

I think he could be an option as a holding d-mid, such as Leo Cullen has been in the past - albeit briefly, for Arena. If he were to get better with his challenges/tackles, he could develope into a very good d-mid at the international level (see Mastroeni who is basically the same size as Garcia, but quicker).

I don't see him having a future as a central defender at the international level, but it is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Good analysis, though perphaps a tad optimistic about Garcia's ability to develop into a decent attacking outside back in an Arena system.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Preston North End


IMO, Garcia is good with the ball at his feet and can pass (better than Mastroeni).

I agree with pretty much everything else, except this. Maybe he can pass better than Mastroeni, but I seriously doubt that he can hold the ball better than Pablo can.

[kyledane]

Originally posted by dark knight
No personal attacks please.
Sorry about that, I got carried away. Just as well that Martin didn't see it.

[kyledane]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
I've got money that Garcia never becomes a mainstay on the Nats. Fine MLS player, but he doesn't have the distribution skills to play dmid or right back IMHO.
For the record, I don't think he's likely to be a mainstay either because we have a number of players who are better suited to the positions he would likely play. I'd only say he'll be in the picture for the next few years and will probably get some looks.

I should have said that Davis should get a call up at the position he's playing---not left back.
Agree - Davis has some great moves offensively and could help us immediately on the left side of our midfield/offense (yes, I'm well aware that Beasley is already there). To force him into the defense would be to waste most of his upside.

[jabraria@hotmail.com]

yeah, but what about matt reis

[Preston North End]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
Good analysis, though perphaps a tad optimistic about Garcia's ability to develop into a decent attacking outside back in an Arena system.

Thanks Martin. I am usually a tad optimistic about everything, though once I see the light through my rose covered glasses I drop the optimism (say about Garcia) real quick.

Originally posted by The Wanderer
I agree with pretty much everything else, except this. Maybe he can pass better than Mastroeni, but I seriously doubt that he can hold the ball better than Pablo can.

The "pass" is what I mean. To expand more on the holding of the ball, he is where Mastroeni was at in his third year of MLS play. This is Mastroeni's 5th year, while Garcia is in his third.

On a side note, this is the problem with a lot of posters - me included. A player is written off - such as how Mastroeni was in 1999 - as a future Nat before they develope into a good pro.

Players like Garcia and Califf are not international caliber at the moment, which is why I'm optimistic about them. Given more time to develope, they might reach a Mastroeni's level.

[Preston North End]

I’m going to go about this in a different manner.

With the Gold Cup and Confed Cup coming up next year, this is what needs to be the focus for U.S. Soccer – not necessarily WCQ for the 2006 World Cup. Yes, Arena should have an eye towards the future – this I’m not debating. I’m just looking at it from a different angle.

The following is who I think should be in the pool with the focus on winning the Gold Cup and Confederations Cup, while also looking towards the WCQ that will start in late 2004.

Start with the...

Primary Player Pool

Goalkeepers...
1. Brad Friedel
2. Kasey Keller
3. Tony Meola
4. Tim Howard

Defenders...
1. Eddie Pope
2. Tony Sanneh
3. Frankie Hejduk
4. Gregg Berhalter
5. Jeff Agoos
6. Carlos Llamosa
7. David Regis
8. Greg Vanney
9. Steve Cherundolo

Midfielders...
1. Claudio Reyna
2. John O'Brien
3. Chris Armas
4. DaMarcus Beasley
5. Earnie Stewart
6. Pablo Mastroeni
7. Cobi Jones
8. Eddie Lewis
9. Brian Maisonneuve
10. Richie Williams
11. Richard Mulrooney
12. Brian West

Forwards...
1. Clint Mathis
2. Landon Donovan
3. Brian McBride
4. Joe-Max Moore
5. Josh Wolff
6. Jovan Kirovski
7. Ante Razov

Most of these players have the inside shot at forming the nucleus of the U.S. Nats between now and the end of 2003.

I don't think Arena (hoping he stays on as Manager) will completely overhaul the squad, at least not until the January camp in 2004. That is when the serious preparation for WC 2006 will begin.

Don't give me any crap that 2004 is too late to begin serious prep for the WCQ. Remember Beasley made is serious run for the World Cup squad AFTER the U.S. had qualified. He did it in five months.

Arena has always fielded a squad with an eye on winning the match. This is why is short-term turnover of players was so low and will continue to be so. There will still be a turnover, but not very big.

Again, I'm not saying Arena’s eyes will not be on 2006, so I do feel some of the older players are finished. Just don't be surprised to see someone like Agoos or Jones play in 2003, or that some players that will be over 30 in 2006 to be cut.

I also don't expect Arena to call in 93 players over the next four years and cap 73 of them. I think around 60 will get a call-up, with 40-50 getting a cap. No National Team is really 50 players deep (e.g. Brazil in 2002 WCQ's and France with all their injuries at the 2002 WCF's). Do you really think Joe Enochs is interantional caliber?

Secondary Player Pool

Goalkeeper...
1. Zach Thornton
2. Joe Cannon
3. Nick Rimando
4. Kevin Hartman

Right Back...
1. Ryan Suarez
2. Oguchi Onyewu
3. Evan Whitfield
4. Nick Garcia

Center Back...
1. Carlos Bocanegra
2. Mike Petke
3. Danny Califf
4. Corey Gibbs
5. C.J. Brown
6. Kelly Gray
7. Brandon Prideaux
8. Jim Conrad

Left Back...
1. Wade Barrett
2. Joe Franchino
3. Paul Broome
4. Nelson Akwari

Holding Mid...
1. Daniel Hernandez
2. Pete Vagenas
3. Ramiro Corrales
4. Leo Cullen

Right Winger...
1. Ben Olsen
2. Chris Klein
3. Steve Ralston
4. John Thorrington

Offensive Mid...
1. Ross Paule
2. Sasha Victorine
3. Kyle Martino
4. Francisco Gomez

Left Winger...
1. Bobby Convey
2. Brad Davis
3. Antonio Martinez
4. Eric Quill

Forward...
1. Conor Casey
2. Taylor Twellman
3. Jeff Cunningham
4. Edson Buddle
5. Santino Quaranta
6. Bobby Rhine
7. Ed Johnson
8. Chris Carrieri

These are your best American professionals playing 1st Division (MLS, 1.Bundesliga, EPL, etc.) or 2nd Division (2.Bundesliga, English First Division) soccer at the moment.

If the U.S. were to play a game in November, I would call in the following players (a MLS based team) for a camp...

GK: Howard, Cannon, Thornton

DF: Pope, Suarez, Bocanegra, Petke, Barrett, Califf, Akwari.

MF: Olsen, Beasley, Mastroeni, Martino, Maisonneuve, Mulrooney, Jones, Paule, Convey

FW: Donovan, Mathis, McBride, Twellman, Buddle, Cunningham.

Some for experience and some to win the game.

If the U.S. had to play the Confederations Cup final 6/29/03 vs. Brazil I would have the following 18-man roster...

GK: Friedel, Keller.

DF: Pope, Berhalter, Sanneh, Hejduk, Bocanegra, Gibbs.

MF: Reyna*, O'Brien, Mastroeni, Beasley, Olsen, Maisonneuve.

FW: Donovan, Wolff, Mathis, Twellman.

My starters: Keller - Sanneh, Pope, Berhalter, Gibbs - Olsen, Reyna, O'Brien, Beasley - Donovan, Twellman.

*I've read Reyna may not "retire" from the Nats over the next two years. If he does retire Mulrooney or a healthy Armas replaces him.

[kyledane]

I think it's a good idea to think along these lines as well. It mainly asks the question: Who is literally next in line? Most often the player next in line is going to be a guy who's playing very well now in a league very visible to and well-respected by our coaches. There are the occasional exceptions, like Chris Albright. But they can be cataloged separately, as in the original list of Wild Card players.

That said, I don't think you're going to get an awful lot of agreement for placing Casey above Twellman.

[Foosinho]

Garcia has no future internationally unless he cuts out that bush-league crap he always pulls. Like when the Crew cut the USOC semi to 2-1, and he grabbed the ball and curled up in a fetal position for 3 minutes to waste time, and then even had the gall to fake a hip injury.

He does that kind of crap way too often, IMO.

[Martin Fischer]

Though they will probably makes a few more appearances, I think Agoos, Llamosa, Jones, Stewart and Moore are basically out of the pool.

[kingwho]

Originally posted by Karl Keller


Donovan is not potential, he is reality. He's played in 5 world cup games and has scored in World Cup competition."



yes, i totally agree on this front

an argument can be made that he is already the best usa player

since he first donned the usa shirt no has played more games, logged more minutes or scored more goals

i know that is not a perfect argument, but its pretty awesome for 20 years old

[Preston North End]

Originally posted by kingwho
yes, i totally agree on this front

an argument can be made that he is already the best usa player

since he first donned the usa shirt no has played more games, logged more minutes or scored more goals

i know that is not a perfect argument, but its pretty awesome for 20 years old

Your love affair with Donovan has blinded you. He may be the leader in games and minutes played, but he is not the leading goal scorer.

Here are the U.S. leading goal scorers since his debut for the U.S. in 10/2000...

Mathis 9 goals, 16 starts - 6 sub appearances.
McBride 7 goals, 19 starts - 1 sub appearance.
Donovan 7 goals, 23 starts - 5 sub appearances.

Mathis has also set up more goals than Donovan in that time frame as well: 6 assists to 4. McBride has 3 assists.

Brad Friedel, Kasey Keller, and Claudio Reyna are the best U.S. players - not Donovan. Donovan is in Mathis' class, as is McBride, O'Brien, Stewart, and Pope.

This is the beauty of the U.S. team, there are nine players that are definitely international caliber. Some others may be in that group (Beasley), but the U.S. still needs another nine before we can seriously think about winning a World Cup.

[Sandon Mibut]

Regarding the Corrales debate, I think it should be pointed out that Ramiro does have 3 caps with the senior team, earned under Steve Sampson in 1996 and 97 between the first 2 MLS seasons. Corrales came off the bench in a loss @ Peru and a loss @ China then went 90 minutes - at left back - in a 1-1 tie @ China.

Can he play left back at the next level? Probably but I doubt he'll ever be the top player there on the depth chart. But, he's only 25 and he shouldn't be written off, especially since he's starting regularly for the league's top team.

[QuakeAttack]

Originally posted by Sachin
wu-tang.. if you want to know why Kreis no longer plays for the Nats, go watch a tape of the Iran friendly from 2000. He missed, by my count, 8 possible shots on net. Not shots that were blocked, but shots that he shanked, shot wide or just plain missed.

Sachin

Ouch, now that you mentioned it, I remember that game. I felt sorry for him because I wanted him to succeed, but he was bad, really bad...

This brings up a good point. Jason takes a lot of shots, but very few go in. Normally, you don't have that many opportunities at National Level (ask any English fan about Andy Cole). I think that's the reason Jason won't be back on the NATS.

[TheSlipperyOne]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut

Can he play left back at the next level? Probably but I doubt he'll ever be the top player there on the depth chart. But, he's only 25 and he shouldn't be written off, especially since he's starting regularly for the league's top team.

If there's a Quake who will play left back for the Nats his name is Wade Barrett.

[uniteo]

Time to start putting Convey back as a central mid, and pretty high up on the list. Now that he's playing regularly and creating goals in the middle...