Official DC United vs Chicago Fire PRE Match Thread [N&A]

[Knave]

DC United vs Chicago Fire

• Date & Time :: Saturday, April 24 @ 5:00pm EST (note the unusual time)
• Television :: ESPN2 (live)
• Audio Webcast :: English (http://www.1160wmet.com/), Spanish (http://www.radioamerica.net/), Other Webcasts (http://www.socceraudio.com/)
• Broadband Video Webcast :: None
• PBP AIM Chatroom :: BigSoccerDCU :: Directions Here (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2238175#post2238175)
• Match Previews :: DCUnited.com (http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=main&cont_id=241238), MLSNet (http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20040423&content_id=726&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp)
• Game Day Experiences at RFK (http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=games&cont_id=238216)
• Referee Analysis Thread (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107549)

• Note 1 • This will be Chicago's 5th match in 2 weeks. It'll be their 7th match in 1 month. They have not scored a goal since their 4-0 win against San Juan Jabloteh on March 24. On Wednesday April 21 they'll play Saprissa for the home leg of the CCC semifinal round. Should they fail to score in that match they'll ride a scoring drought of 630 minutes into our match this weekend.

• Note 2 • The "Comments, Analysis on Season to Date" (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105570) thread on the Chicago Fire board is well worth reading in anticipation of our match this weekend.

Items in gray will be updated as information becomes available.


News, Analysis, and Serious Discussion Only

No Flames - No Trolls

[sch2383]

The debate will continue about Freddy starting...don't think he will, but maybe he should come on for Jamie this time. You gotta think that we will stick with the same formation and lineup as last week, maybe with Dema and Bobby switching, something that produced great soccer last week.

------------Jamie---Esky-------------
----------------Convey--------------
Dema-------------------------Stewart
---------Carroll-------Olsen-----------
Petke----------Nellie--------Namoff
---------------Rimando----------------

[Section106]

Sad to say I won't be at the match, I've got plan A. If this team can somehow begin to capitalize on the chances they create then I predict 3-0 to DC. However, if they continue to waste opportunities and then suffer the inevitable let down in intensity, we could see the Fire rediscover their goal scoring touch. Let's hope that Nowak has addressed the mental fitness aspect of the game and whichever goalkeeper gets the start paid attention in training this week!

[TEConnor]

The debate will continue about Freddy starting...don't think he will, but maybe he should come on for Jamie this time. You gotta think that we will stick with the same formation and lineup as last week, maybe with Dema and Bobby switching, something that produced great soccer last week.

------------Jamie---Esky-------------
----------------Convey--------------
Dema-------------------------Stewart
---------Carroll-------Olsen-----------
Petke----------Nellie--------Namoff
---------------Rimando----------------

I've never been impressed with Dema on the wing. I expect to see Convey playing wide left most of the time, but with switching similar to last game. I'm enjoying Olsen's effort and performance in the middle (save 15 minutes of the second half last week when he should have been subbed).

Therefore, I generally agree with your lineup.

The critical element will be subs. I would sincerely like to see Nowak steady his hand on the trigger and let the game dictate the sub pattern. More midfield subs would have been the ticket in Jersey...could be a repeat situation here.

Tim

[Cantankerous]

The debate will continue about Freddy starting...don't think he will, but maybe he should come on for Jamie this time.
I'm a big proponent of not playing Freddy for 90 minutes yet, but it might be worth starting him on Saturday to see how he interacts with his teammates when they are all fresh. Then Nowak can sub him at 45, thus leaving Sarachan to guess which forward will come in to further plague CJ's little mind.

[Cantankerous]

THEM:

Goalkeeper: Ring hasn't been tested much. When he HAS been tested, he's failed. This is an interesting position to watch. Zack's departure hit them hard.

Defense: Their back line is suspect. CJ Brown is a thug, and worse, a slow thug. Curtin is a pretty good player, but he looks like an alien. Whitfield is a diving whining punk. Don't recall the last guy. (Can't let that stop the stream of thought)

Midfield: Fast, but not as fast overall as ours. Skillful, but not as skillful as ours. Hard-working, but not as hard-working as ours. Plus, Beasley is, to borrow a phrase, a whining, diving punk (when he's not on the national team). I hate him (when he's not on the national team). He's good, but I hate him (when he's not on the national team)..

Forwards: Razov and Ralph scare the crap out of me. Fast, skillful, and lethal finishers. They can score goals in bunches. Of course, if they were that good, Chicago wouldn't be threatening the goalscoring futility record. ;)

US:

Goalkeeper: Yikes. We have a choice between an experienced gimp (sorry Nicky) and an inexperienced athlete. How good is that Perkins kid anyway?

Defense: Let me be diplomatic here. I think we lack a little bit of speed on the back line. In a 3-5-2 that is compensated for by a 5-man midfield. That is, when they're working in top form, and not dying of exhaustion. However we're aware, hardworking, and committed.

Midfield: I'll take our midfield over just about any other midfield in the league. Not because they're the most talented. Far from it. It's because just 3 matches in, Nowak has them working hard for each other and for the back line. They're also linking well with the forwards and setting up plenty of chances. Before the season Nowak said that this a major goal, and so far they've delivered. We'd be 3-0 had we capitalized on half our chances. The problem? We might not know how to pace ourselves, or we might not be in shape yet. We seem to lose concentration (typically caused by fatigue.)

Forwards: I like the set of forwards we have. I might like to start Freddy this match alongside Jaime. I don't think they'd work as well together as Freddy and Esky, but how do you put Jaime on the bench now, given the way he's been playing? Poor Santino's out of the picture for the forseeable future, as is Thiago. That's too bad, since they'd give us some intriguing lineup options.

COACHES:

Us, by a small margin. Sarachan has the experience, Nowak has the fire. Or maybe Nowak had the Fire and Sarachan has the Fire. Whatever. Nowak has wrung more passion and commitment from his team than Sarachan has from his.


OVERALL:

I don't know why Chicago is in such a funk. They're too good a team to be winless. Let's hope they don't wake up on Saturday.

My prediction? We win by a goal, this time scored by a midfielder in a goal-mouth scramble. We swarm the way we did in the first half vs. LA and NY. Our midfield asserts its dominance. Freddy beats CJ to a header in the box, thereby dooming him to a season of ridicule by his teammates (hey, I can dream, right?)

[Gunners11]

I think you guys can beat us, but I don't know if you will. I mean we haven't scored a goal in MLS this year, and we are bound to break out of this slump the boys are in, hopefully Saturday will be the day. I agree with most of you points, except for the coaching. Dave has been a coach in the game for a long time, remeber before taking over the Fire, he was Bruce's # 2 on the Nat. side. Meanwhile, Peter has only been a coach for what.... 3 matches.

[Cantankerous]

I think you guys can beat us, but I don't know if you will. I mean we haven't scored a goal in MLS this year, and we are bound to break out of this slump the boys are in, hopefully Saturday will be the day. I agree with most of you points, except for the coaching. Dave has been a coach in the game for a long time, remeber before taking over the Fire, he was Bruce's # 2 on the Nat. side. Meanwhile, Peter has only been a coach for what.... 3 matches.
Yeah, I know, but you didn't really expect me to give an advantage to the opposition in a pre-match thread, did you?

I'm actually a big fan of Sarachan. Remember he was here before going to the Nats. The major point is that I'm thrilled with Nowak's leadership traits, and Sarachan still has to show his motivational magic this year.

I think he should wait until the following week, though.

[Gunners11]

Yeah, I know, but you didn't really expect me to give an advantage to the opposition in a pre-match thread, did you?

I'm actually a big fan of Sarachan. Remember he was here before going to the Nats. The major point is that I'm thrilled with Nowak's leadership traits, and Sarachan still has to show his motivational magic this year.

I think he should wait until the following week, though.

I hope he doesn't wait at all. I mean after last weekend, we need somethin, namely, a goal.

[onefineesq]

I hope he doesn't wait at all. I mean after last weekend, we need somethin, namely, a goal.

If its any consolation, we all hope that you score about 5 of them on Wednesday night! :)

[Knave]

Cantankerous - That's a really nice breakdown. I've got a few comments and additions though ...

:: Goalkeepers ::

Both teams are in somewhat similar positions here. I suspect that Countess will win the starting position eventually, but they're going give Ring every chance first. And I suspect that Warren will win the starting position in the long run, but Rimando has too many miles on him not to give him every chance possible. In short, both teams are very unsettled at the back, and neither team is sporting anyone in goal that you'd consider in the first tier of MLS keepers (Walker, Onstad, Brown etc.). So both teams can expect goalkeeping mistakes, and probably on a more or less even basis. I really think this position is a wash. Heck, I don't even know who's gonna start in goal on either team ...

:: Defense ::

Curtin is the best defender currently on the Fire. He's an excellent defender and shouldn't be under-estimated. CJ Brown is old and slow, but experienced. Whitfield ... I don't think Whitfield is the smartest of defenders. He's also prone to fouls and cards. Played well you ought to be able to get him carded - maybe even booted from the match. Griffin is a rookie, and has all the faults of rookies. I don't know what's up with Kelly Gray. He didn't play in the last game. That said, they're actually fairly strong. In MLS play they've only conceded 2 goals. The first two games were scoreless draws. But Whitfield is apparently injured and questionable for the CCC match. Whether he's around on Saturday and who'd they play in his position, I do not know. Still, if you're looking for faults in the Chicago Fire armor I think you've got to look somewhere other than defense. I fear the charge that their defense is suspect is somewhat wishful thinking.

DC United’s defense is rather more porous that Chicago’s. That 3 in the 3-5-2 means we’ve got to play defense starting in the midfield. Obviously, as the MetroStars well demonstrated, that doesn’t always happen. Once the opposition penetrates we haven’t always looked that sharp. Our defense works by swarming and overwhelming the opposition with numbers. When deprived of those numbers we find ourselves in trouble. That trouble is compounded by the fact that, as Cantankerous points out above, we’re just not that fast and we apparently can’t run for 90 minutes. As solid as I think our defense is, I think there’s actually an argument to made that Chicago may actually be in better form than us right now. I think our players are more talented. As the season goes on we’ll surely become a defensive force, but right now Chicago’s generally well run 4 man backline may be superior to our 3 man backline.

... A question … Do we play Petke or do we let him sit? If he sits who do we bring in: Stokes or Prideaux? I actually think you have to play Petke again. But we’ve gotta be prepared to put Stokes or Prideaux in if the funk continues.

:: Forwards ::

Yes, I’m taking this in a peculiar order. But I’ve got my reasons. Chicago’s got a bit of a scoring drought. I do not take ANY confidence from that fact. There’s nothing wrong with Razov and Ralph (well I guess Ralph tweaked something or another). They’re going to start scoring goals eventually. Indeed, the longer the drought continues the more likely it is to break. The worst thing that could happen to us is if they go scoreless in the CCC semifinal match. I don’t want them coming into this match with more to prove than the average MLS team looking for a win. Razov and Ralph are a goal scoring duo to envy. We shouldn’t forget that. The key, I think, is to take Razov out of the game. You’ve got to play him cleanly (he racks up those PKs), but you can’t allow him to have a good game. If he’s out of the game, then Chicago will struggle for goals.

I hate to say it, but I’m still very skeptical about our forwards. I’m pretty comfortable with the Moreno – Esky pair, but if we’re ever going to start Adu this is the match. You’d have to pair him with Esky, and bring Moreno in off the bench for Adu sometime in the second half. But the reality is that Chicago wins the forwards comparison hands down. I don’t care that Razov and Ralph aren’t scoring goals – lately. They’re a far more formidable pair then anything we’ve got to offer right now. Fine, all our forwards scored one goal. Who’s going to do it again? None of our forwards have (in recent years) shown an ability to score week after week in MLS. Razov and Ralph both did that last year.

... A question … Do we start Adu or not? I think we do. Chicago seems to be off its game and we’re going to play a close, quick possession game anyway. That seems well suited for Adu. It’s his home crowd also. I say give him the start. Pair him with Eski and see how it goes. If it’s a failure take him out and put Moreno in. Eski needs to play 90 minutes. We can’t continue to use two subs for the forwards.

:: Midfield ::

You may not like Beasley, but he’s faster and better than anything we’ve got on the wings, and he’s going to eat our slow and tired defense for lunch and dinner. (Mapp is speedy too.) I should be more worried about Andy Williams than I am. I realize I have some sort of prejudice that makes me think he just isn’t that good. But in many respects he really just isn’t that good, and if it were me I’d spend the day trying to run at him in order to force him to play defense (which he really can’t do). Then there’s Chis Armas. He’s one of the best d-mids around, and in a certain sense there’s just nothing you can do about that. But one area where he can be taken out of the game somewhat is when he’s starting an attack. Chicago is a counter-attacking team. We can’t beat them on the run. We’ve gotta stop those attacks before they start. That means pressuring the guys in the back and in the midfield who initiate those attacks. Armas is key among them.

Our midfield – well I agree with Cantankerous – It’s the best around right now. And it’s good in ways that might work well for us in this match. We’ll need the ability to hold and move the ball and look for those quick one and two touch passes that’ll open up space enough to take the shot. That’s because I suspect Chicago will concede a lot of possession to us, hoping to lure our defense out of shape so they might capitalize on their speed advantage in the counter-attack. (And that’s really not a bad strategy against us.) So that means our problems are basically going to be mental: 1) can we really hold things together and maintain our possession game for 90 minutes? 2) can we really be smart enough to know when we’re going to lose possession and anticipate those otherwise deadly counter-attacks? Honestly, I think the answers to both those questions are no.

So there’s a bit of a paradox here. Overall I think we’ve got a better midfield than Chicago, but Chicago is exactly the kind of team that should be capable of punishing us for our few deficiencies. They may very well have the edge. With that in mind, I’d suggest playing Dema as a sort of secondary d-min/holding mid (despite the fact that in many respect I much prefer Gros). The calculation is really simple: we’re not going to find much offensive success on the wings. So why play Gros? I’d rather have Dema, Carroll, and Olsen all playing defensively minded midfield to suffocate Chicago’s wing play, and to provide holding and passing options in our midfield when we attack. In short, we’re going to go up the middle with a quick passing possession game, they’re going to go down the wings with a fast paced counter-attacking game. Can they stop us up the middle? Can we stop them down the wings? I think it’s pretty even for about 70 minutes. After that … well I just hope we’re ahead before that.

... A question … Do we start Dema or not? I don’t like Dema’s game. I don’t think he had great game last week. But somehow I think he’s more suited to this game than Gros.

:: Coaches ::

I actually agree with Cantankerous but have different reasons. Sarachan is probably the better coach right now. But I don’t think he’s really got HIS team together yet. Nowak probably isn’t the better coach right now. But he does have HIS team together. The advantage has to go to the coach who has his team largely together. Nowak’s fingerprints are all over DC United while Sarachan seems to have let his team slip away from him. They just aren’t playing that well right now, and it’s not clear to me that Sarachan really knows how to put things back in order. He’ll get it eventually. Of that I’m sure. But he doesn’t have his team together right now in the way that Nowak does.

:: Lineup & Overall ::

Put that all together and my “if you ask me” lineup would look something like this:

Adu---Esky
Convey------Stewart
Dema-----Carroll------Olsen
Petke-----Nelsen-----Namoff
Warren


The midfield positioning above is pretty loose – I mean to imply something more about mentality (offensive/defensive) than any strict positional responsibility.

As for the question "can we beat Chicago" ... Well, it's a 90 minute game played with a round ball. So maybe. ;)

[biggi]

Warren should, and will (Nowak is quoted as saying he had a pretty good game on Saturday), start in goal.

Our defense is suspect, we may need to go to a 4-4-2, if only to make better use of Petke. We miss Reyes.

In the midfield, I don't see why Stewart should be regarded as a lock to start. He's playing better than last year, but should have scored on Saturday. If Nowak wants to start Adu he should perhaps sit Stewart.

Eskandarian has not convinced me that he should be a lock as a starter, he has scored one goal, a nice one, but also a lucky one until he scores a bunch more. Moreno plays as long as he has the stamina. If Nowak wants to change the frontline, then Adu should go in for Eskandarian.

I don't thin Adu starts this week as he is supposed to play a bunch of games with the under-23s and isn't practicing with the team

[dsheon]

Chicago's game Wednesday is front and center on their minds right now. It will be very interesting to see how the team is left after the game. Did they rally for an amazing at-home comeback to pull through? What a shot that would be for them! Or are they going to have their faces rubbed in it by the Ticans? I have to put pre-match analysis on hold until then.

[ratdog]

THEM:

Actually, I think you got it backwards.

Our defense is OK. It's our offense that is the problem. Right now, our forwards couldn't score in a whorehouse with a fistful of $100s. And we can't seem to get both Ralph and Razov (who is stil injured) on the pitch at the same time. Also, with Jesse Marsch out, we have no offensively minded midfielder capable of organizing our attack. Armas tries his best, but he can't cut it as a "midfield general". Because this, greater pressure is placed on our defense because teams know they don't have worry about us scoring on them.

Our real problem on Saturday will be that it will be the third game we've played in a week. If you don't get all three points on Saturday, you should fire Nowak (and give him back to us! ;) )

[ursula]

So I'm looking at our lineup here. We have several contested spots:

Goalkeeper

jeez. I think Nicky gets the start again. Starting Warren sure did backfire.

Defense

No changes. Petke had an off game but he didn't cost us the game, which was more of an organizational problem.

Midfield

Also no changes. In other words Gros will sub in. As someone who's been highly critical of Dema, I saw little wrong- or unexpected rather- with his game last week. At this point Dema is still an important part of our offense and this outweighs his poor passing.

forward

Will Fred start? I give it a 51% chance. He won't play the whole game. Those who think Moreno will sit are absolutely nuts.

lineup

------------Rimando
---Petke-----Nelsen----Namoff
-----Kovalenko-----Carroll
Stewart------------------Convey
--------------Olsen
------Moreno--------Adu

[Cantankerous]

Our real problem on Saturday will be that it will be the third game we've played in a week.
This is the great unknown. Fatigue will be a real problem, but a big comeback win mid-week might be a real shot in the arm, as David pointed out.

If you don't get all three points on Saturday, you should fire Nowak (and give him back to us! ;) )
Sorry, you can't have Nowak back. (Until he loses another match and magically becomes the worst coach in the league.) However, if we win, I'll buy you a beer. That should make up for it, right?

[PCC from DC]

I don't thin Adu starts this week as he is supposed to play a bunch of games with the under-23s and isn't practicing with the team

I, too, can't see a coach who reportedly bases his starting lineup decisions largely on practice form starting someone who will not be practicing with the team all week.

[GoDC]

I would normally see no reason for us not to beat a tired team that may start both Nate Jaqua and Logan Pause in the midfield. however just the fact that they have not scored yet this season scares me. Eventually even DC United 2003 scored a couple of goals. I am looking for the same lineup as Saturday and hope that we score a couple in the first half and come out with some intensity in the second.

[DigitalTron]

I'm noticing a lot of good analysis, but a few minor points with which I disagree. I think people are overlooking Whitfield. Mind you, there are very few players in this league I really, really dislike outside of the goon squad in New England (Franchino, Pierce, Heaps), but that whining hack Evan Whitfield is one of them. So it is with great displeasure that I must begrudgingly admit, that he's a very underrated player. He is very sound on defense and has good speed. He always plays with passion and always yaps at the refs, but much like Ben Olsen, it seems to give his team a positive benefit. This guy's a rock, and the only players I can see exposing him are Convey with his speed or Dema with his attitude. If Convey aggresively attacks the flanks, this will pin Whitfield to the back line. Dema vs. Whitfield is like playing with sparklers on a deck of dynamite. I just wonder which will be ejected?

Chicago's defense has been absolutely dominant thus far this season. They haven't shown many weaknesses. Our attack generates a lot of chances but isn't particularly good at finishing them. We will not get that many chances against Chicago, so we'll need to finish, if not, this could be a nil-nil tie.

On the flip side, Chicago is also generating a wealth of chances, so I'm fairly confident that they'll get their chances against us. We need to hope for their forwards slumps to continue and damage their confidence. Otherwise, its going to be our goalie that'll have to save the game ... and we're weak there right now, regardless of who starts.

Here's the lineup I expect to start:

-----------------------Eskandarian----------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------Moreno------------------------

Convey----------------Olsen--------------------------------------Stewart
------------------------------------------Dema--------------------------
-----------------------------Carroll---------------------------------------

---------------Petke--------------Nelsen--------------Namoff-------------

--------------------------------Rimando----------------------------------

I'm expecting Freddy to start the second half subbing in for Esky, and Cerritos to sub in for Moreno but play the Esky role somewhere around the 65th minute. I think we'll see Gros come in for Olsen, Dema or Convey depending on the stamina of Convey/Olsen and the discipline and restraint of Dema. Against his old club Dema is very likely to get at least a yellow, if not a red. Chicago knows this and will deliberately provoke him.

-Digital

[elconejito]

I'm noticing a lot of good analysis, but a few minor points with which I disagree. I think people are overlooking Whitfield. Mind you, there are very few players in this league I really, really dislike outside of the goon squad in New England (Franchino, Pierce, Heaps), but that whining hack Evan Whitfield is one of them. So it is with great displeasure that I must begrudgingly admit, that he's a very underrated player. He is very sound on defense and has good speed. He always plays with passion and always yaps at the refs, but much like Ben Olsen, it seems to give his team a positive benefit. This guy's a rock, and the only players I can see exposing him are Convey with his speed or Dema with his attitude. If Convey aggresively attacks the flanks, this will pin Whitfield to the back line. Dema vs. Whitfield is like playing with sparklers on a deck of dynamite. I just wonder which will be ejected?

Chicago's defense has been absolutely dominant thus far this season. They haven't shown many weaknesses. Our attack generates a lot of chances but isn't particularly good at finishing them. We will not get that many chances against Chicago, so we'll need to finish, if not, this could be a nil-nil tie.

On the flip side, Chicago is also generating a wealth of chances, so I'm fairly confident that they'll get their chances against us. We need to hope for their forwards slumps to continue and damage their confidence. Otherwise, its going to be our goalie that'll have to save the game ... and we're weak there right now, regardless of who starts.

Here's the lineup I expect to start:

-----------------------Eskandarian----------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------Moreno------------------------

Convey----------------Olsen--------------------------------------Stewart
------------------------------------------Dema--------------------------
-----------------------------Carroll---------------------------------------

---------------Petke--------------Nelsen--------------Namoff-------------

--------------------------------Rimando----------------------------------

I'm expecting Freddy to start the second half subbing in for Esky, and Cerritos to sub in for Moreno but play the Esky role somewhere around the 65th minute. I think we'll see Gros come in for Olsen, Dema or Convey depending on the stamina of Convey/Olsen and the discipline and restraint of Dema. Against his old club Dema is very likely to get at least a yellow, if not a red. Chicago knows this and will deliberately provoke him.

-Digital
your lineup looks absolutely solid to me. However, i still maintain that adu should come in for morenowhenever he gets tired. playing them both together isn't effective. and as others have mentioned, we can't keep burning 2 subs on the frontline.

everybody seems to be predicting chicago with a 4man midfield... is this right? i could have sworn they played with 5 in the midfield. I gotta say that if its only 4 then we have the advantage in the midfield. thye would be expecting armas to hold back some combo of olsen/dema/convey/stewart by himself. if i were nowak i'd have bobby push centrally and combine with jaime and benny and maybe stewart with quick combos. the trio of curtain/brown/armas isn't fleet of foot enuff to deal with them. as long as we play the ball on the ground we'll create our fair share of chances (whether we finish or not is another question)

defensively i'm very worried. razov and ralph are more than a handful for our backline and when mapp or beasley get past our midfield line (notice i didn't say "if") it can get ugly really quickly. carrol is gonna need a lot of help in this one and he's gonna have to cover a lot of ground, probably almost sideline to sideline. i'm not too concerned about andy williams as he tends to hold onto the ball too long which with our 5MF should play into our hands.

gros should come in for whoever gets tired in the midfield, maybe stokes gets a look this game too