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tmaker
14 Apr 2004, 07:25 PM
It's like this, you see...

Lauren is a much better than average right back, and while he's not Mancini or Cafu, so what? But this brings me to another observation.

I've been watching (again) past Arsenal games this year. Especially Fulham, Man Ure, and @ Rovers. While TV coverage remains complete shite for getting an overall view of strategy and tactics on pitch, still it reveals a couple of things.

1) Of the games I have in my collection from this year (including @ Man City), very seldom are goals scored against Arsenal from the right. When there is an attack down the right at all, generally the strike comes from well out of the PA, or just in it. As a right back myself, this is hardly "my area" to defend alone, but is very much the province of the midfield and center half. Goals that *have* come from the right, such as @ Leicester, seem to come a) when Pascal Cygan is in, b) through the air on a cross, c) near the top of the Six, and/or d) on a rebound or redirect. This is not a problem with right fullback defending.

2) Lauren's own goal @ City was a fluke, I think, and could easily have been Lehmann's fault for not communicating on the backpass. But this also was extremely early in the season, and certainly before the back four knew how to communicate with the keeper (and vice versa). Had this pass gone to Seaman I don't think it would have looked even remotely awkward, as Seaman tended to be precisely so out of position on such passes.

3) The very worst period, for me, to watch the Arsenal defense was with Lauren serving his suspension/injury time in Nov-Dec. It showed me how very thin the defense is, and indeed, this is the period of far too many drawn games that should have been wins. And when Lauren finally came back, the next drawn game wasn't until Everton, and that was Ashley Cole's bungle allowing Radzinski to score.

4) Contrary to what phishy seems to think, Lauren early in the season was virtually never "beaten," but regularly outpaced attackers and had excellent positioning. After coming back from knee and ankle injuries, his speed shows noticeable decrease, and his defending more hesitancy. Coincidence?

Draw your own conclusions from all this. My conclusion is that the weak link on the defensive right isn't Lauren, who will surely be fully recovered soon, but the right midfielder--and who would that be? This is especially noticeable when the defense moves forward into attack.

Now, if I were to suggest selling Freddie and moving for a defensive mid on the right, I'd probably be shot by any Gooner. Yet this makes way more sense than offing Lauren. Particularly lately, as everyone is chattering teeth about acquiring Trezeguet, which is highly unlikely IMHO, Freddie seems more disposable than ever. Though our midfield is certainly thin, our defense is thinner still.

I think I agree with BayouGooner on one point at least: Arsenal would benefit greatly from depth at every position. Certainly they need a spare right back, and a real alternative striker who can, if not dominate in the air, at least challenge for it. I think the need for a stronger midfield has certainly been shown--just watch the Champions League game vs. Chelsea at Highbury. Not to take anything from Bridge's brilliant goal, but with some less tired legs on the pitch, I doubt Chelsea would have got their second goal at all, and I'm even more convinced that Arsenal would have made better plays (and decisions!) in the center third.

What Man Ure and Chelsea have that Arsenal do not is very obvious from the past two weeks. Say what you will about the Red Devils, at least when one of their shite players is out, they have at least two others to back him up. Even Buster Brown is looking like a soccer player lately, and "Jim" Carroll is looking like a solid keeper and a git, so he fits in well. Chelsea of course have more midfielders than we can ever dream of, and double coverage for their entire back line. Where's ours? Probably awaiting the next Carling Cup.

Having said all of this, my next sentence will be a Zen koan-like non sequitur.

Lauren can always play in the midfield.

Beakmon FC
14 Apr 2004, 07:30 PM
Paralysis by analysis.............

NY via SE18
14 Apr 2004, 08:53 PM
tmaker - fine post. I tend to agree with most of your analysis. HWR, Lauren does have two glaring faults in defense: (1) lunging in, and missing the ball and getting beat. He does this too often for my liking when it would be more prudent to contain his man and await help where needed, and (2) dealing poorly with high bouncing balls resulting in forwards getting possession of balls that he gets to first.

His passing fits well with the team's style and is important in bringing the ball out to the center. His link play on the wing is also good and overlaps regularly. HWR, way too many of his crosses (1) pass over his target OR hit the defender and go out for a throw.

For me, the bottom line is that he's better than most right backs in the Pl and is good at what we need him to do. Our back line only has one solid cover, and that's at left back. I see no real cover for Sol or Kolo (Cygan scares me). So we definatley need more cover there. In addition, with ray getting old and freddy seemingly becoming less effective, our right midfield needs more cover also. More than anything else, I'd like to see us get a central defender with speed (so he can cover both right back and right centerback) and a right winger. I think we need both for next season at a minimum. Especially if we want to progress in three campaigns again.

BayouGooner
15 Apr 2004, 02:28 AM
Gallas anyone? He wants out of Chelsea badly as they will sign a "world-class" centerback, most likely Walter Samuel of Roma. He was rumored to be heading to Arsenal last season before Roman came in and opened up the checkbook. I think he'd be a good, versataile addition--able to play in the center of defense or on the right.

arsenalgirl30016
15 Apr 2004, 09:26 AM
Gallas anyone? He wants out of Chelsea badly as they will sign a "world-class" centerback, most likely Walter Samuel of Roma. He was rumored to be heading to Arsenal last season before Roman came in and opened up the checkbook. I think he'd be a good, versataile addition--able to play in the center of defense or on the right.


Not that I am a huge Gallas fan, but he is touted as being able to play anywhere in the back 4 which would add versatility and cover for the back. If he wants out of Chelsea and would come at a decent price it might not be a bad idea. Plus he already has premiereship experience and there would not be that much transition time for him.

yossarian
15 Apr 2004, 02:33 PM
Gallas anyone? He wants out of Chelsea badly as they will sign a "world-class" centerback, most likely Walter Samuel of Roma. He was rumored to be heading to Arsenal last season before Roman came in and opened up the checkbook. I think he'd be a good, versataile addition--able to play in the center of defense or on the right.

Where have you read that Gallas wants "out" of Chelsea? I'm not doubting you but just haven't seen that myself. I know a lot of Chelsea fans absolutely love him and feel that he has been one of the only backs able to contain Henry this season. I would love to add Gallas to the back line but just don't know how realistic it is to think that he'll be leaving Stamford Bridge this summer.

BayouGooner
15 Apr 2004, 03:56 PM
I'll try to find the article again....it was short, and it wasn't on tribalfootball

If I recall correctly, he's fine as long as Chelsea don't sign a big name centerback, which they most certainly will in the offseason. Chelsea is at least 2 deep in every defensive position and they are young as well. Huth is waiting in the wings at centerback. Gallas wanted out at the end of last season because the board were stalling on offering him a new contract. Then the gravy train arrives and everything got smoothed over.

Besides he's good, young, and French--he belongs in our squad. But the best chance for him to hold on to regular spot might be for him to do a Thuram and bosshog the right even though he's more than capable of playing centerback.

Catfish
15 Apr 2004, 05:15 PM
Where have you read that Gallas wants "out" of Chelsea? I'm not doubting you but just haven't seen that myself. I know a lot of Chelsea fans absolutely love him and feel that he has been one of the only backs able to contain Henry this season. I would love to add Gallas to the back line but just don't know how realistic it is to think that he'll be leaving Stamford Bridge this summer.


Fantastic post and thread. I could live with Gallas on our back line, but I don't there is any chance he is leaving Chelsea. Gallas does seem to some how give TH14 a hard time, when the 2 London giants meet.

BayouGooner
15 Apr 2004, 05:32 PM
Mark my words, Gallas might not end up at Arsenal, but he won't stand for being 3rd fiddle at Chelsea. And they certainly will upgrade at centerback.

bigp
15 Apr 2004, 08:07 PM
Getting Gallas as our right back isn't the answer. He has complained about playing right back during the recent games against Arsenal as he said he doesn't feel comfortable playing on the right.

I think Lauren is doing an all right job as RB. Duff was pretty quiet in the 2 CL games, though he did have a nice chance, which shows he's capable of defending. He is prone to mistakes but they haven't really cost us. There is a lack of attacking threat on the right though as I've rarely seen Lauren try to run in the box like Cole sometimes does.

BayouGooner
15 Apr 2004, 10:19 PM
Getting Gallas as our right back isn't the answer. He has complained about playing right back during the recent games against Arsenal as he said he doesn't feel comfortable playing on the right.

So? Thuram complains about playing rightback all the time, but he has been one of the best at that position in the world for a long time now. He's just voiced a preference for centerback just like Kolo did when he had to fill in all over the pitch. Kolo views himself as a centerback as does Thuram as does Gallas. Can Gallas perform ay rightback? Sure, he completely marked Thierry out fo the game and played well. The comfort level comes with experience. Remember where Thierry played before AW got ahold oh him. I'm not saying Arsenal will sign Gallas, but his versatility could go a long way in solving the depth problems at the back.

Rick B
16 Apr 2004, 05:27 AM
Where have you read that Gallas wants "out" of Chelsea? I'm not doubting you but just haven't seen that myself. I know a lot of Chelsea fans absolutely love him and feel that he has been one of the only backs able to contain Henry this season. I would love to add Gallas to the back line but just don't know how realistic it is to think that he'll be leaving Stamford Bridge this summer.


Last summer, 8 days before the start of the confederations cup, Gallas came to Highbury with Vieira and Henry. He was given a training session, plus a medical. The fee was agreed and the deal signed by Arsenal. The meeting was attended by Arsenal's solicitors, Chelsea's solicitors (Laytons) and various exec's. Gallas said he would sign the deal when he came back from the Confederations Cup. 5 days later Chelsea became Chelski. They suddenly wern't in debt like before and didn't need to sell. Gallas was offered what he wanted to stay, and he did.
Even if Chelsea do sign another centreback, it won't be to replace Gallas. He is rated too highly. As much as I would of liked him at Highbury, it won't happen. And it is not a good idea to buy a player and play him in a position knowing he doesn't want to play there. See Wiltord and his unhappiness at playing on the wing.
Also don't forget we have Senderos coming through. I can see us buying a Centre-back, purely for cover, but it won't be a big name star, it will be an unknown coming from obscurity again.

BayouGooner
16 Apr 2004, 06:14 AM
You mean to tell me that we were that close to signing Gallas? That's disappointing to say the least.

Rick B
16 Apr 2004, 06:22 AM
You mean to tell me that we were that close to signing Gallas? That's disappointing to say the least.

I thought the same last summer when I found out the deal had been scraped, but at the end of the day, no-one knew how good Toure was going to be with Campbell. The first game that Toure looked supurb playing with Sol was against Besiktas. I don't think we need Gallas anymore. He is too good for cover and lets face it, we have the best defensive record in the Premiership by a mile.

BayouGooner
16 Apr 2004, 07:41 AM
True--our frontline defensive players for the most part perform excellently together. But I'd love to have Gallas in the sqaud. Seemed like he really wanted to play for Arsenal--he is always praising the Gunners. Oh well--wishful thinking on my part. Lemme ask you this then Rick--do you think Chelsea will be buying Walter Samuel, and if they are what the heck are they going to do with Gallas because Terry's not going anywhere.

Rick B
16 Apr 2004, 08:28 AM
True--our frontline defensive players for the most part perform excellently together. But I'd love to have Gallas in the sqaud. Seemed like he really wanted to play for Arsenal--he is always praising the Gunners. Oh well--wishful thinking on my part. Lemme ask you this then Rick--do you think Chelsea will be buying Walter Samuel, and if they are what the heck are they going to do with Gallas because Terry's not going anywhere.

No. Chelsea won't be buying Walter Samuel. He will be available in the summer, but not to Chelsea. They are going after someone far bigger. I agree that Gallas could be annoyed at the fact they will be signing another centre-back. BUT, there is no doubt that Chelsea, at some point in the next 3 0r 4 years, will win the Champions League. That is Roman's target and he will keep spending until he has it. Gallas won't leave Chelsea knowing he could get a winners medal. He might be available in 2 or 3 years time, but not this summer. And if you are wondering who I am referring to with regards to Chelsea signing, then think about someone who Terry has played with before and has said he wants to play at club level with...............

yossarian
16 Apr 2004, 09:10 AM
No. Chelsea won't be buying Walter Samuel.....And if you are wondering who I am referring to with regards to Chelsea signing, then think about someone who Terry has played with before and has said he wants to play at club level with...............

Okay, I haven't had my coffee yet this morning so I'm a little slow on the uptake but are you talking about that fellow who plays for the northern team who doesn't like to piss in cups?

BayouGooner
16 Apr 2004, 09:29 AM
Terry and Rio would be immense, but I like our guys just as much, if not more. If Chelsea sign do Rio, then Gallas better call up Thuram for advice on how to cope playing a position he feels he's not suited for because he will certainly log many minutes playing rightback.

yossarian
16 Apr 2004, 09:39 AM
Terry and Rio would be immense, but I like our guys just as much, if not more. If Chelsea sign do Rio, then Gallas better call up Thuram for advice on how to cope playing a position he feels he's not suited for because he will certainly log many minutes playing rightback.

And obviously, I'm just guessing that Rick was talking about Rio. I do recall, however, hearing such rumours.
I agree with things you've said either here or on another thread about having Gallas. We don't absolutely need him but he would be great in the lineup. I know Kolo and Sol are forming a strong partnership in the center but IF Gallas were brought in (BIG IF), I could see Kolo easily making the transition to right back and would probably be more inclined than Gallas to do so despite Kolo's preference for the center. Kolo just seems like the ultimate "team" player that would happily do his best at whatever position Wenger put him in...as long as he's on the pitch somewhere. Cliched, I know but I think true.

BayouGooner
16 Apr 2004, 10:02 AM
From ASEC Mimosas in the Ivory Coast to logging the most games out of any player for Mighty Arsenal in the space of 2 seasons . . . Kolo's an incredible player, an even more incredible story, and the most versataile player we've got. You're right--he'd play anywhere AW asked him to. Hell, he already has. The guy is quickly becoming my favorite Gunner.