What a Real load of Kaka- The Chelsea Transfer Thread

[fernb8]

continue

[blackjack]

brilliant title.

[Rman3349]

Nice work fern, this is the first time in a while that someone has taken matters into their own hands and not blown it

[lobomojo]

Besides isn't it quite obvious that Young has been found out a bit at Villa. His skill level is solid but his position is one that he can easily be double marked out of a match. How will he face being surrounded by 2 players and being closed down? We don't simply need a player to stretch teams but player who can play a variety of attacking positions (including centrally as a second forward) and pop up all over the place. We need goals and people who can create (for themselves) and score them with some consistency.

The Mancs have it figured out as does Barca. They play with 3 second forward our 2 second forwards and a striker. All three move about and confuse the defenders. That is the style we have attempted to employ with Malouda, Anelka, Drogba.

It's obvious that he is found to be a top quality player that delivers inch perfect crosses and passes, that would fit in nicely here. So for the same price you, personalitys aside you would not have Messi or Ronaldo because we marked them out of matches. Who by the way both stretch teams for their Clubs, who speaking of could not score against a weak Barca defence, and A Barca offence who could not create chances against us. And the Duff model with Drogs, worked a lot better than the Malouda or Anelka at wing version so perhaps one should not chuck or embrace that one formation only so readily.

A team needs more than one option/way too, we need at least one wide threat as an option, and we need at least one player who can cross, he can do both, as well as cut inside and work the middle as you could see in many matches against many sides.

And if he is a threat that needs to be doulble marked out of a match, one, he really can't be that bad can he and, two, that leaves one player wide open...lets just hope that open for the shot player ain't Obi Mikel who we both love so much:D

[okocha1]

Yes he does, and he beats fullbacks all the time, yes he had a hard time doing so against Bos so I guess that leaves Messi and Ronaldo off the decent winger list. Now if Okocha heard about a winger with 15 goals and 27 assists the last two years named YoungVanEijar he'd be all for him :p:D

Though I aggree with Okocha that we need one perhaps two attackers/second strikers, the one thing we don't have is a wing who can play wide and effing CROSS the ball, in fact we reall have no one, including starting fullbacks, that can, except Lamp, and we don't want him at wing. It would be nice to have just one.

When Duff and Robben were here, Duff could and did stretch it wide and open space for Drogs, Lamp and even Robben on the other side to cut in. and in his day Duff was one of the best crossers in the League. And Bridge could cross when healthy and Gallas could a bit, though usually with his right foot.

It is not about having to rack up goals that way, it is about dragging the fullback to the line and stretching the centerbacks apart by having a real wide threat to worry the defence.

And..er..Okocha in 05/06 we won the League with 91 points, I'll take that kind of slip again.

Again Young was a new kid on the block last season just like Robben was during his first season. He has taken a massive dip in terms of his output in the league in comparison to last season. With a game primarily based on hitting the byline and crossing to two big forwards its odd that his assists have decreased.

Well Ronaldo did give Bos a difficult time both at SB and Old Trafford and Messi was effectively handled Bos (with help from our Mids who swarmed). In fact Lennon has given both Bos and A.Cole torrid times and A.Cole was torn to shreds by Gabby in the past and Walcott and Downing has done the same to Bos when we played Borough at home (nearly scored as well).

Robben and Duff had less assists in the 05/06 season, Joe Cole had his best ever, and SWP was brought in for depth. Not to mention the fact that Crespo returned to increase our goal scoring ability with the ANC (or ACN). Essien was brought in and Drogba scored and created more goals than the season prior. Point being that our wingers were inconsistent, so much so that Joe Cole, who was a luxury player fought his way into a starting position and SWP was rendered to a non-entity. By the 2nd half of the season with Drogba back from the ANC we were employing a 4-4-2 diamond formation (with Crespo and Drogs up top) which was solidified in the 06/07 season.


We don't need crosser. If you can pass the ball on the ground you can cross. If we can get set piece goals from dead ball situations or corners from Lampard (who is the best we have) then we have plenty of controlled and tactical ways of getting goals from crosses. In open play we rarely score from those chances and we don't play that style of game.

The Mancs have proven that a team of quick second forwards who are well rounded attackers who move constantly and can assist each other as well as improvise is far more dangerous than static sitting players who cross the ball. Despite Duffer and Robben being new types of wingers, wing-forwards, they lacked lacked only in size and athleticism (and Robben possibly from the lack of a right peg). Still they were second forwards in 4-3-3.

[lobomojo]

Also am interested in what people think about this so I'll bring it over also:

"to get back to something how little sense does it make to drop Hilario and leave us having to find two reliable backups"

Hilario is not a world burner and no Cech, even an offCech, but I think he had become very reliable and well setlled in after some first year jitters, who delivered against Barca, and other big teams and in big matches. I am a bit nervous about having no back-ups who have played at our level of pressure.

[fernb8]

Okay, I understand you are pleased with the status quo.

er, year of course I only want status quo. Its not like I have said that we need a back up keeper, maybe two now, an attacking midfielder, a young CM and a foward this summer. Way to put words in my mouth.

:rolleyes:

but one thing that has always been constant with the team over the past few seasons is the defense. The defense has always been rock solid and it has continued to be rock solid into this season.

agreed, the defence has been good, although not as great as it was under the first two seasons with Jose. Injuries and tactical shifts probably account more for our leaking goals these days than we intially did.


Yes, RB was a problematic position for us, and now we have good options on the right side (Bosingwa as well as Ivanovic who also had a good game in the 1st leg), but we've had the best defense in the league in recent years. That is unlikely to change any time soon even if we replaced Bosingwa with Ivanovic as there is not a great difference between the two.

based on the approximate 10 times Ivanovic played at RB correct? Btw, although he turned in some very impressive displays he was also caught very flat at the back playing fullback this season a slightly worrying concern considering our central defence is not the quickest in the League.

Adding GJ, an English international for depth would not be bad either.

17 million spent to add depth, yeah that makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

The difference between us and United is in World Class attacking talent. That's where I feel we need to gain ground on them. While they have an embarrassment of riches in C. Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, and Berbatov, we have just Drogba and Anelka. We've had too many games where we just break down from a lack of ideas and ultimately fail to find the back of the net, while United had the might of Wes Brown at RB for them last season and they won the Double.

Yes Utd have better attacking talent but to chalk that up to the double last season is not only short sighted, its flat out incorrect. With just some level of competenet management last season we could have easily pipped Utd for at least one trophy. How quickly you dismiss the blatant mismanagement by Grant (need we discuss both Wigan and Spurs- where we scored 4 goals, but conceeded four with our dominate defence) and the injuries we suffered is comical.

Even after sorting out our problem position, we still finished behind Liverpool. Ribery is a world class winger that would really help us in reclaiming the top spot, and it's no surprise the likes of Terry and Lampard would want him here.Don't see why you're so amazed at attaining one of the best wingers in the world for a RB that while good can be replaced by Serbia's starting RB with no problem.

A Liverpool team that arguably had one of their best Prem seasons ever but I suppose that is not a factor. Once again a player who has played approximately 10 games at RB as opposed to a RB who made 47 appearances at RB, and one very good display at LB as well, and made how many mistakes on the defensive end. Besides some struggles against Arsenal- show me a defence who usually doesnt struggle against them and losing a header to Fellani- please provide me a detailed list of all the mistakes Bos made this season.

Unless you feel a tandem of Ivo and GJ is not good enough for Chelsea? If this is still an absurd notion, let me know fern. Don't mind and intelligent discussion..

for someone pining for Ribery it amazes me how silly your ideas are. Ivanovic is so awesome that we dont need Bos, so lets spend 17 mil on a backup which will somehow fund the purchase of Ribery... :confused:

so dont you mind intelligent discussion or is it dont mind and intelligent discussion?

[fernb8]

Also am interested in what people think about this so I'll bring it over also:

"to get back to something how little sense does it make to drop Hilario and leave us having to find two reliable backups"

Hilario is not a world burner and no Cech, even an offCech, but I think he had become very reliable and well setlled in after some first year jitters, who delivered against Barca, and other big teams and in big matches. I am a bit nervous about having no back-ups who have played at our level of pressure.

always thought he was a very solid #3 and silly to let him go atm, unless he wants the move.

also, thanks for moving some stuff over lads as I hate to close a thread with some good discussion going on.

[okocha1]

It's obvious that he is found to be a top quality player that delivers inch perfect crosses and passes, that would fit in nicely here. So for the same price you, personalitys aside you would not have Messi or Ronaldo because we marked them out of matches. Who by the way both stretch teams for their Clubs, who speaking of could not score against a weak Barca defence, and A Barca offence who could not create chances against us. And the Duff model with Drogs, worked a lot better than the Malouda or Anelka at wing version so perhaps one should not chuck or embrace that one formation only so readily.

A team needs more than one option/way too, we need at least one wide threat as an option, and we need at least one player who can cross, he can do both, as well as cut inside and work the middle as you could see in many matches against many sides.

And if he is a threat that needs to be doulble marked out of a match, one, he really can't be that bad can he and, two, that leaves one player wide open...lets just hope that open for the shot player ain't Obi Mikel who we both love so much:D

You overrate his crossing ability to a maddening degree. If he were that good and his crossing as you describe he would have at least maintained the same number of assists, considering that Villa now have another big forward in Heskey to play alongside Gabby not to mention that he also has Milner on the other side trying to stretch teams and take some pressure of Young. However the opposite happened and his assists dried up for along spell. As did his goals (which were coming in pairs rather than over a long period against different teams).

I talk of Young and then you compare him to Messi and C.Ronaldo? That is massive hyperbole. It is a testament to how well Chelsea played that they set plans to mark out two of the best forwards in the game, both of whom contributed to their teams positions by scoring goals, crucial goals over a long season which ultimately led them to win rounds in tournaments and win trophies. They are both far and away better players and have proven it, but its been the goals that has set them apart from other forwards (they aren't mids or wingers). Both players have a style and approach that makes them difficult to handle and both players are concerned with scoring goals because when it comes down to it that's what wins games.

It was lack of goals that cost us against the Mancs last season (when Lampard and Drogba had our only chances) and against Barca (apart from terrible refereeing) this season. We don't create or put away enough chances match per match. Its nothing about a plan B because if you plan A is so good, as ours was for two season under Jose before we stopped replacing quality with quality, then their is not reason to radically change it. A.Young will not be a guaranteed starter, especially if Joe Cole comes back and Drogba, Malouda and Anelka return. We need someone who will provide something we've lacked and that is goal scoring ability from those wide areas.

If I were to talk of one British player who impress me look no further than Gabby has evolved more as a player as he was asked to play as center-forward and he did so admirably, using his pace and upper body strength to hold the ball under pressure. He is not only a very clever player he now how to use his gifts and where his strengths lie, his pace and his finishing. Too often I see Young trying to do step over after step over instead of just knocking a ball in or trying to hit the byline when he can cross from a standing position.

Even Lennon as figured out that he needed to add more goals to his game and despite the myth that his crossing is poor, he has knocked out a player in Bentley who was keeping him out of the England set up and player who's game is all about crossing. Lennon and Gabby both have pace and the ability to beat any defender with with our without the ball. Walcott is another. They're pace making marking far more difficult and not only that Walcott and Lennon dribble and maintain good ball control at lightening pace and Gabby has off the ball movement and power to go along with his pace from the middle. Its not just difficult to mark them out of a match, when on form its imperative.

Young just doesn't have that natural ability and his crossing is not at a Beckham level or even a Bentley for matter. If he's double marked a shutter at him passing inside, especially to Obi ;), but it would just mean that our tactics have been the same and we still can't get goals. I just don't think we need more creators in the side we need people have great pace or ability to score from nothing, preferably both. We've already seen what pace from different areas can do with Anelka playing and moving about, we need a another attacker of that ilk.

[lobomojo]

Again Young was a new kid on the block last season just like Robben was during his first season. He has taken a massive dip in terms of his output in the league in comparison to last season. With a game primarily based on hitting the byline and crossing to two big forwards its odd that his assists have decreased.

I beg to differ, I watched a lot of Villa matches and I will say there is more to his game and he often worked it inside and down the middle. As to output, 7 goals and nine assists not shabby and as always the guy who makes the brilliant pass to the guy who gets an easy assist not counted (another reason why Lamp is even better than shown statisically). Not to make excuses but in the winter/spring when his stats dropped, he worked trough a bad ankle then a bad calf and missed 3 for a red, Agbonlahor made Kalou look like a David Villa finisher the last half, and Carew missed 10+matches. (our player all suffer statistically and in goals when Drogs out, are the no longer good or found out)


Well Ronaldo did give Bos a difficult time both at SB and Old Trafford and Messi was effectively handled Bos (with help from our Mids who swarmed). In fact Lennon has given both Bos and A.Cole torrid times and A.Cole was torn to shreds by Gabby in the past and Walcott and Downing has done the same to Bos when we played Borough at home (nearly scored as well).

Robben and Duff had less assists in the 05/06 season, Joe Cole had his best ever, and SWP was brought in for depth. Not to mention the fact that Crespo returned to increase our goal scoring ability with the ANC (or ACN). Essien was brought in and Drogba scored and created more goals than the season prior. Point being that our wingers were inconsistent, so much so that Joe Cole, who was a luxury player fought his way into a starting position and SWP was rendered to a non-entity. By the 2nd half of the season with Drogba back from the ANC we were employing a 4-4-2 diamond formation (with Crespo and Drogs up top) which was solidified in the 06/07 season.

ohh yes you don't rate Joey either:rolleyes::p


We don't need crosser. If you can pass the ball on the ground you can cross. If we can get set piece goals from dead ball situations or corners from Lampard (who is the best we have) then we have plenty of controlled and tactical ways of getting goals from crosses. In open play we rarely score from those chances and we don't play that style of game.

The Mancs have proven that a team of quick second forwards who are well rounded attackers who move constantly and can assist each other as well as improvise is far more dangerous than static sitting players who cross the ball. Despite Duffer and Robben being new types of wingers, wing-forwards, they lacked lacked only in size and athleticism (and Robben possibly from the lack of a right peg). Still they were second forwards in 4-3-3.

The Man's get crosses and work the byline all the time, with Ronaldo, Giggs, Park and their fullbacks, in fact Ronaldo scored off a cross in the CL and O'Shea beat us another game off the cross. ManU near always sets up an attack with a player on each wide line deep towards the corner be it a wing or fullback to stretch the defence and open the middle for Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov. And Young is anything but "static"

Much of our problem much of the year was we could not score against good defences (especially without Drogs) who packed in narrowly, and were allowed to pack in narrow as we have no wide threat like a Ronaldo, Messi, or even a Giggs (though he played more inside this year). You have an option wide it stretch the defence and allows the players you want, to do their thing, otherwise you get all this narrow pretty position changing passing to no avail

[lobomojo]

And I refer to Messi and Ronaldo not because I am claiming Young is as good but because you keep saying Barca don't use wide players, wings or crosses, only thier interchangable attacker/forwards when in fact they have two of the best wide threats and constantly stretch the field wide, side to side, which in turns leaves space inside for the players you want.

and by the way I am not saying we should forego those type of players, in fact I have constantly said we need one or two also, but we need a player who stretchs a defence wide also and can deliver a cross in action, not just wait for a static corner or freekick

I'd take Young as the player because I obviously rate him much higher, and because he is proven in this League and proven sturdy, not an insignificant factor. If we can't get him then I'll take a chance on Zhirkov and/or really hope we see Stoch and Sinclair as well.

[okocha1]

The Man's get crosses and work the byline all the time, with Ronaldo, Giggs, Park and their fullbacks, in fact Ronaldo scored off a cross in the CL and O'Shea beat us another game off the cross. ManU near always sets up an attack with a player on each wide line deep towards the corner be it a wing or fullback to stretch the defence and open the middle for Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov. And Young is anything but "static"

Much of our problem much of the year was we could not score against good defences (especially without Drogs) who packed in narrowly, and were allowed to pack in narrow as we have no wide threat like a Ronaldo, Messi, or even a Giggs (though he played more inside this year). You have an option wide it stretch the defence and allows the players you want to do their thing, otherwise you get all this narrow pretty position changing passing to no avail

Look they don't have players who stay on a flank, primarly one flank and whip in crosses. Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez are all found out wide at some point or another on either flank and they pass amongst one another to get the ball in. BTW Ronaldo usually gets on the end of crosses whipped in from set pieces NOT from the fullbacks. Rooney and Tevez are usually wide of Ronaldo when all three play in fact Rooney has played as a wide attacker more often than any of their attackers. Giggs never starts matches and when he does his position is never the same. He moves about more than anyone and while he is one of my favorite players, statistically (at least not in the way of assists) he didn't add much to them and for me shouldn't have been PFA player of the year.

Our problem, especially under Scolari was the predictability of our attack, which had a lot of emphasis on wide play from our fullbacks Our game was entirely based on stretching teams with our fullbacks. Now I always disagreed this tactic because we have never been a team that scores goals consistently from crosses from open play and our fullbacks, despite being attacking in approach, did not have the technical proficiency of wingbacks, A.Cole couldn't cross and Bosingwa couldn't cross consistently nor did he have the endurance levels (at least early) to attack and defend well.

Quite unlike the Mancs who's fullbacks have excellent pass and move connections with their forwards, so much so that they're often camped in opposition halves, our fullbacks have rarely be afforded that opportunity, despite being better defenders overall. Bos's attacks were halted not only due to his indecisiveness but because we lacked forwards who could hold possession in the final third so that he could overlap. Joe Cole was in poor form and then injured and Kalou is terrible at keeping possession under pressure.

We were fine against teams not accustomed to this style of play but once United set two players to mark our fullbacks our game was up. Our game was simply far to predictable. Adding a winger in front would help because for a time Robben and Bridge/A.Cole played in front of one another and even then people called a more interplay because Robben was being marked out of matches. Defenders don't know if they'll be up against when they play the mancs. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, and Park all move about and linkup with each other. Sure some can cross (although I wouldn't say they are good at it or consistent in any way) but they're best attribute is getting the ball in goal.

[okocha1]

And I refer to Messi and Ronaldo not because I am claiming Young is as good but because you keep saying Barca don't use wide players, wings or crosses, only thier interchangable attacker/forwards when in fact they have two of the best wide threats and constantly stretch the field wide, side to side, which in turns leaves space inside for the players you want.

and by the way I am not saying we should forego those type of players, in fact I have constantly said we need one or two also, but we need a player who stretchs a defence wide also and can deliver a cross in action, not just wait for a static corner or freekick

I'd take Young as the player because I obviously rate him much higher, and because he is proven in this League and proven sturdy, not an insignificant factor. If we can't get him then I'll take a chance on Zhirkov and/or really hope we see Stoch and Sinclair as well.

A player who stretches defenses doesn't have to be player of Young's style of play. That is what I'm saying. Forget Messi and Ronaldo, look at Tevez, Rooney, Gabby, Suarez, Pato, etc. They are all second forwards who can play inside and exploit they're pace and ability outside be through movement dribbling, crossing, or a combination. We need players with the versatility so that they can play in a variety of attacking positions at high quality. We value that trait so much in defense (you cite Bos and we can talk about Ivanovic) and to an extent Anelka has proven he can do it in attack (great goals and key assists against Pool from a wider position). We need players with that bit unpredictability who can get us goals.

Don't get me wrong I rate Young, not as highly as you, but he is not the type of player we are missing in this team. We have had 'wingers' like him but he is even more of a wide-mid than what we'd had in duffer or even Malouda, who has grown massively into a more attacking role than he's had even at Lyon. I saw Quaresma this season and I thought perhaps an "old school" winger isn't bad, but when I watched that match against Spurs, I was reminded about how reliant he was on his delivery and if it was even the slightest bit off, the other parts of his game in attack wouldn't increase or chances of getting a goal from open play, maybe a freekick or from grace of god a pk :p. Point being that when we did "cross" the ball and score a goal more often than not it came from a set piece from Lampard's boot. Its getting the ball in the net that we need help with.

[nicephoras]

We could do a lot worse than young. But we can also do better.

[Kazuma]

Defenders don't know if they'll be up against when they play the mancs. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, and Park all move about and linkup with each other. Sure some can cross (although I wouldn't say they are good at it or consistent in any way) but they're best attribute is getting the ball in goal.

I do agree that we need some quick players, as we've been crap on the counter for ages until Malouda became good. Personally I prefer we go back to a mix of Milan in possession and United on the counter style we had.

As for United's style, it works well against weak and slow teams but how do you think they would do if they used a DM? Their style is to just run at players and against sides that can do patient build up they're screwed. Milan tore them to pieces two seasons ago in the CL and Liverpool did the same to them at Old Trafford. When we were at our best we made them struggle too because we could simply hold onto the ball and make them work for it.

[lobomojo]

...snip... Point being that when we did "cross" the ball and score a goal more often than not it came from a set piece from Lampard's boot. Its getting the ball in the net that we need help with.

That is because we had no one that could ********kkkkkkking cross the ball in open play:)

How many more chances could we have had if Malouda did not cross to the stands or other team?

Looking at Rooney or Pato for instance yes they can threaten wide a bit and Rooney can actuall deliver a cross but they are much better when they play their natural roles inside and more so when a natural wide player opens that space for them..

And Young is no Quarema, thank god, he has a 10,000 times better work rate and attitude and has more versitality to his game, though Q beats him on trix are for kids

I am not saying don't buy Pato, in fact I'd like to have as I said buy Pato or Tevez or Benzema and then ALSO buy a natural wide player so they can play where they are supposed to.

edit: dam you, already have another counteratack going while I was responding to the first : ) By no means whatsoever am I saying put Young within 5 feet of the left byline with a shock collor if he stray, he is right footed and can play on either wing, and if you watch more Villa than just our matches, you would have seen him and Millner flip and work the inside ala a Duff Robbem lite and as we often have discussed I am all for fluid and dynamic interchanging multi-dimensional play on both sides of the ball. I just want at least one of those fluid players to be a true threat wide with an ability to cross well. Yeah I'd take Messi first, or Ronaldo after a lobotomy, but that won't happen so I'll take Young who I rate higer in fluidity and versetality as well than you obviously do.

p.s to edit. Though I like Agbon, and was talking him up for Jan , he was the one that was way off form in the spring leaving me not so sure now

Now all this thinking has given me a headache:D so I'll agree to disagree and bike to the Pub, and call it "exercise" or a "workout::D

[okocha1]

As for United's style, it works well against weak and slow teams but how do you think they would do if they used a DM? Their style is to just run at players and against sides that can do patient build up they're screwed. Milan tore them to pieces two seasons ago in the CL and Liverpool did the same to them at Old Trafford. When we were at our best we made them struggle too because we could simply hold onto the ball and make them work for it.

Its wins against those small teams that won them the title. If they had anything about them and got a real mid (a DM or an attaking mid) then they would be that much stronger because they're forwards would no they'd have a constant service from there passing midfielders. I always struggled to figure out how gungho football worked and how players like Brown and Carrick (good player) were made to look like world beaters. It is because those forwards are of a high quality and are constantly on the move. The Liverpool's showing and 4-1 score as a bit flattering by most accounts and had more to do with an 2 terrible pieces of defending which made it 2-1 before Aurelio's goal the Mancs had chances to tie but after that the match was over. Poor Man Utd rather than Pool.

We are probably the only team that can semi-contain United and if you discount our set piece debacle that was the 3-0 loss, we are about even with them. Still even then if you re-watch our FA Cup win last season or even the CL final, they created some pretty much clear cut chances to score. Against Barca they met a team that played their style of game but had more skilled creators and even then in those first 10 minutes United could have scored. What's scary is that the Mancs create so many chances but unlike last season they haven't been able to put them away as much. Its not as simple as shutting down their midfield either because with the evolution of Giggs they have a player clever enough to drag our disrupt the oppositions DM by shadowing him.

[okocha1]

edit: dam you, already have another counteratack going while I was responding to the first : ) By no means whatsoever am I saying put Young within 5 feet of the left byline with a shock collor if he stray, he is right footed and can play on either wing, and if you watch more Villa than just our matches, you would have seen him and Millner flip and work the inside ala a Duff Robbem lite and as we often have discussed I am all for fluid and dynamic interchanging multi-dimensional play on both sides of the ball. I just want at least one of those fluid players to be a true threat wide with an ability to cross well. Yeah I'd take Messi first, or Ronaldo after a lobotomy, but that won't happen so I'll take Young who I rate higer in fluidity and versetality as well than you obviously do.

p.s to edit. Though I like Agbon, and was talking him up for Jan , he was the one that was way off form in the spring leaving me not so sure now

Now all this thinking has given me a headache:D so I'll agree to disagree and bike to the Pub, and call it "exercise" or a "workout::D

Hehe :D, well understand your point of view and I do rate Young but if a winger like Ribery is available, a player who can take our team to another level and is possibly better than what we have wide, then I say go for it. I like Young he is a solid dependable winger with a dash of flash about him but if you play his style you've got to offer a bit more that a great cross and good pace to trouble great sides. And also don't see him as aggressive enough or direct enough in his play to hurt fullbacks from his skill and pace.

Gabby for me has tools that can be exploited by any team. His pace and ball holding ability as well as footballing smarts already makes him head and shoulders better than Kalou and he is, despite is poor play near the latter part of the season, which seemed to be symptoms of Villa as well, I know he has better technical ability in his shooting and is a better finisher than Kalou.

Young would be coming in to challenge Joe Cole and I just don't think his crossing can out-way Joe Cole's goal scoring, technical skill and aggression as well as defensive ability. I know that Ribery can rival Joe in that area and really probably push him (I hope) to maintain that 05/06 level. Still, if it comes down to it I wouldn't be adverse to getting Young, I just don't know if its a wise choice for him (similarly Sturridge although his fee and age will be in his favor) as he will go from being a guaranteed starter to well, probably at least in the beginning a bench player. Certainly a different player to SWP but he will start in the same position in the team.

Anyways I think in the end we are saying the same thing but in different ways...,but for the sake of agreement I will all agree to disagree. "smiley face"

[Ben7021]

I can understand the hesitance on Young some, but are we really complaining that he draws an extra defender? THAT MEANS HE'S GOOD, IN EVERY SINGLE SPORT!!!! In football they try to take the best receivers out of the game by double teaming, In basketball they try to take the best scorers out of the game by double teaming. If teams are double teaming Young to take him out of the game its because they are worried about him. Heck, I would take two players that could consistently attract a 2nd defender on them. Can you Imagine the havoc Drogs would unleash if both wingers were drawing extra support?

[Andy Fox]

Have to disagree about Gabby okocha although he's another I like. He's a massively frustrating player and his finishing is rather scratchy. Heck, even the Villa fans were calling for him to be dropped.

Agreed about his pace and strength but he's not overly smart as a footballer yet.