Honest question...Do we possibly overrate our players?

[cantona94]

What I mean is, everyone everywhere is guilty of homerism to some respect, but are we in the United States perhaps more likely to overrate our players? I expected this to be a tough game tonight against Costa Rica but I didn't expect for them to pull our ankles out threw our throats....that was horrible.

Anyway, it got me wondering if perhaps we overestimate the ability of a lot of our players and therefore when we lose in this fashion it comes as a surprise to many people. I realize when it comes to certain players like Beasley, there are all sorts of reactions, particularly now. But perhaps he, like many others, was never ever that great to begin with....ever! Are we guilty of having the wool pulled over our eyes because some of these players go to Europe or become media darlings? Do we overrate them because as a nation, we may be so desperate for that world class American superstar?

It always seems, and perhaps this is because the United States doesn't produce as many players as other countries and therefore doesn't undergo as many "can't miss, future star" player failures so we're not as used to that failure, that we gravitate towards a player and think he's really good and then watch him and others for around 6 years and there seems to be no improvement among many and even regression at times. Beasley, Donovan, Adu, Kljestan, Feilhaber are some that come to mind (i know they're young and who knows what could happen but I'm just throwing their names out there for debate purposes).

Are we drinking too much kool-aid? Is this a stupid suggestion? Did Tom Cruise deserve an Academy Award for TAPS? Who knows...

[bshredder]

Did we really need a thread for this? This is a topic we discuss when we are months away from any USMNT games. At least we can have an honest discussion about it then.

Asking this question after a painful loss to start off an incredibly important month is asking for extreme knee-jerk reactions in the highest order. And you know that

[Marko72]

Only the ones whose feet haven't been held to the fire yet (most particularly if they haven't yet, or barely been capped). And haven't had a poor spell of form in their career yet, which happens to everybody eventually. We certainly don't overrate our vets, that's for sure.

[cantona94]

Did we really need a thread for this? This is a topic we discuss when we are months away from any USMNT games. At least we can have an honest discussion about it then.

Asking this question after a painful loss to start off an incredibly important month is asking for extreme knee-jerk reactions in the highest order. And you know that

Not necessarily....I mean if people can keep an open mind about it. And that's kind of my point! IF...and that's a big IF, we didn't overrate our players (if we as soccer fans of the Nats may do) would a loss of this magnitude be that big of a deal and garner knee jerk reactions...

[An Unpaved Road]

Guilty as charged.

I wasn't expecting a Grade A ass-whooping tonight. A loss, maybe, but not the manner that it happened.

[ty webb]

I think some on here, overate our national team coach.

[Nermalthecat]

Honest question...You're just realizing this?

[cantona94]

Honest question...You're just realizing this?

No...I mean I know that at times fans have done this for certain players...individually. But I am just now beginning to wonder (or come to the realization...whichever) if we don't (or we do already) overrate the abilities of all of our players as a whole...

[cantona94]

I think some on here, overate our national team coach.

I completely agree with you on this...

[TrueCrew]

No, just the team. :)

Honestly, most (or at least many) on BS knew we'd probably lose tonight, but the way we got handled was a bit shocking.

Though if any had bothered to look, we got hammered 3-0 last time. Yes, we had already qualified, but in that starting XI were the following players: Howard, Gooch, Pope, Bocanegra, Mastroeni, Lewis, Beasley, and Ching. Not exactly chopped liver. (Albright, Convey, and Twellman were the other starters).

I think some newbies just don't understand how close we came to not qualifying in 2002 (thank you Stern John), or in 1990. Or how we struggled in 1998. Last time was almost unprecedented in how easy it was, but that was in part due to Honduras being absent.

All this talk around here about how we are this close to getting a seed, or how we are going to win in Azteca, or Saprissa, or how we dominate CONCACAF is just not that realistic. We dominate at home, that's it. So does Costa Rica. So does Mexico.

Look at our roadies this WCQ, and there isn't an impressive showing in the bunch.

1. Barbados: 1-0 win. Hardly awe inspiring with a 8-0 lead (7-0?) coming in. It was the B team.
2. Guatemala. 1-0 win. Absurd result given the game, we should have lost 3-0. Pearce is abused all night, Dolo isn't much better, and gets sent off to boot.
3. Cuba. 1-0. The gem of the bunch.
4. T&T. 2-1 loss. Again, we had already advanced, but hardly impressive.
5. El Salvador. 2-2 draw after being down 2-0. Califf and Pearce toasted all night.
6. Costa Rica. 3-1 loss. Humiliation.

I know it is tough on the road in WCQ, but I also expect us to play a bit better, at least once in a while.

Given those road records, I humbly suggest that we'd better not drop points at home, or we could be looking at 4th.

Seriously, if we need results and our last two games are @Hon and Costa Rica at home, that is going to be a sweat. Hell, Suazo will be back by then.

[cantona94]

No, just the team. :)

Honestly, most (or at least many) on BS knew we'd probably lose tonight, but the way we got handled was a bit shocking.

Though if any had bothered to look, we got hammered 3-0 last time. Yes, we had already qualified, but in that starting XI were the following players: Howard, Gooch, Pope, Bocanegra, Mastroeni, Lewis, Beasley, and Ching. Not exactly chopped liver. (Albright, Convey, and Twellman were the other starters).

I think some newbies just don't understand how close we came to not qualifying in 2002 (thank you Stern John), or in 1990. Or how we struggled in 1998. Last time was almost unprecedented in how easy it was, but that was in part due to Honduras being absent.

All this talk around here about how we are this close to getting a seed, or how we are going to win in Azteca, or Saprissa, or how we dominate CONCACAF is just not that realistic. We dominate at home, that's it. So does Costa Rica. So does Mexico.

Look at our roadies this WCQ, and there isn't an impressive showing in the bunch.

1. Barbados: 1-0 win. Hardly awe inspiring with a 8-0 lead (7-0?) coming in. It was the B team.
2. Guatemala. 1-0 win. Absurd result given the game, we should have lost 3-0. Pearce is abused all night, Dolo isn't much better, and gets sent off to boot.
3. Cuba. 1-0. The gem of the bunch.
4. T&T. 2-1 loss. Again, we had already advanced, but hardly impressive.
5. El Salvador. 2-2 draw after being down 2-0. Califf and Pearce toasted all night.
6. Costa Rica. 3-1 loss. Humiliation.

I know it is tough on the road in WCQ, but I also expect us to play a bit better, at least once in a while.

Given those road records, I humbly suggest that we'd better not drop points at home, or we could be looking at 4th.

Seriously, if we need results and our last two games are @Hon and Costa Rica at home, that is going to be a sweat. Hell, Suazo will be back by then.

Very true on numerous counts. I saw it coming in 98...remembered the close call in 02, and have noticed the same difficulties you've stated in our roadies. Yet, as you say, I do expect us to play better once in a while and while I don't want to go so far as others and say we aren't improving, it sure is hard for me to point out much improvement in many areas of the team. And again it goes back to my 1st question...perhaps I or others wouldn't be talking about a lack of improvement if we didn't overestimate the realistic abilities of our players.

All this is speculative of course btw....

[casoccerdad47]

Off course we overrate our players. Everyone does. The English can't figure out why they haven't won 5 world cups by now. When our favorite players don't perform it must be the coaches tactics, so we call for the coach's head. The English have engaged in this shell game for years.

If we looked at the USMNT logically we would realize we don't have a lot of players in the top European Leagues. With Dolo's injury and Jozy's loan to Xerez I believe we only had three first team field players in the top four leagues in Europe, Bradley in Germany and Spector and Dempsey in England. Unfortunately, Dempsey can't seem to reproduce his club form for the national team and Spector can't seem to get on the field for Bradley Sr.

[cantona94]

Off course we overrate our players. Everyone does. The English can't figure out why they haven't won 5 world cups by now. When our favorite players don't perform it must be the coaches tactics, so we call for the coach's head. The English have engaged in this shell game for years.

If we looked at the USMNT logically we would realize a lot of players in the top European Leagues. With Dolo's injury and Jozy's loan to Xerez I believe we only had three first team field players in the top four leagues in Europe, Bradley in Germany and Spector and Dempsey in England. Unfortunately, Dempsey can't seem to reproduce his club form for the national team and Spector can't seem to get on the field for Bradley Sr.

Totally agree...I must admit, I almost miss the 90s where I was ecstatic just for a half decent performance haha. My own expectations have gotten the better of me. I'm as much to blame here as anyone I guess....I mean I'm a product of my own question it seems. That being said, I think I became a product due to the media and constant assertion towards some players of their "great" abilities when in reality, we don't have much cream to go with our coffee.

[Ghost]

I don't know the answer. On the one hand, I think the last few youth teams we've seen were the best we've had. So we should be about ready to launch. Bu tthose kids are still young. And they aren't replicating the youth team success, at least at this time, at the club level.

[russ]

Few countries take international age group tourneys as seriously as we do.

[cleansheetbsc]

We have seriously overrated our midfielders. We mixing up mediocre quantity for quality.

[m vann]

There is no real definitive answer to this question. But from my perspective we do two things: we overrate some players; we underrate others. Basically I think we see what we want to see in a player and our preconceived notions carry our opinions. Our perception is clouded and we don't have a good sense of reality when it comes to our player pool. It's not an easy subject to put our finger on. To me it's scary when I look at a player and I couldn't tell you if I (or we) underrate or overrate him. That tells me we are littered with inconsistent players and that's an issue. That is the issue, I'm afraid.

[Trav-Man]

We most definitely overrate our players. This is clear when you hear people clamoring for a more attacking formation or change of tactics without realizing that NONE of our players play these formations or tactics for their club teams. We played DMB, who is not playing at his club mind you, at a spot we knew he'd be suspect at. We played Clint as a 3rd forward when he's had such a great season on the wing af Fulham. I usually give Bob more slack than others, but he out-coached himself this time. He should have stuck with the 4-4-2 from the T&T game. That being said, I'm willing to bet you won't be seeing this formation again any time soon.

[toddk15]

Look at our roadies this WCQ, and there isn't an impressive showing in the bunch.

1. Barbados: 1-0 win. Hardly awe inspiring with a 8-0 lead (7-0?) coming in. It was the B team.
2. Guatemala. 1-0 win. Absurd result given the game, we should have lost 3-0. Pearce is abused all night, Dolo isn't much better, and gets sent off to boot.
3. Cuba. 1-0. The gem of the bunch.
4. T&T. 2-1 loss. Again, we had already advanced, but hardly impressive.
5. El Salvador. 2-2 draw after being down 2-0. Califf and Pearce toasted all night.
6. Costa Rica. 3-1 loss. Humiliation.


I don't know your position on the coach, but if that isn't an indictment on Bob then I don't know what is.

[Trav-Man]

I don't know your position on the coach, but if that isn't an indictment on Bob then I don't know what is.

I hope that is an indictment on Bob because we had NEVER won 3 Qualifiers on the road in a row before that. The only thing this is an indictment of is everyone's (understandable) overreaction to one poor result. I wish people would go look at the Italy, Brazil, and Argentina road. It's been far from pretty.