SJ vs. Chicago - Losing control?

[MidwestRef]

I just finished watching the game (after ESPN2 decided to stick with women's tennis), and I think I just saw Exhibit A in what can happen when an official doesn't make the critical calls earlier in the game.

I don't mean this to be a personal slam against Jair Murrafo (sp?). Anyone can have an off game. However, I believe that the 3 missed penalties (two hurting the Fire, one hurting SJ, all based solely on my opinion watching game action and replays) gave the players the belief that they needed to practice vigilante justice. The Williams tackle right before the Corrales send-off could easily have been a yellow or even red for the scissors action behind the leg. The Corrales send-off was an easy call. Everything that is wrong about a tackle was practiced on that play. From that point, play bordered on violent. The Ralph challenge was reckless and rightly cautioned. There were several other instances where the play was extremely physical and bordered on violent.

I think we all want players to decide games. However, there are simply times where we have to make critical calls in order to keep the game fair and safe. IMHO, Murrafo simply didn't make the critical calls when necessary. It doesn't mean he's a bad ref, it just means that he could have done better today.

[Northcal19]

Funny, I looked a the "Ref" board because I just finished watching this game and was looking for refs reactions. Onstahd came off his line and clobbered DMB who was in alone. How that wasn't a PK was hard to imagine. The rest of the game was attrociously reffed. There could have been 20 yellows, because it had gotten so out of hand, and while Corrales probably deserved a red, what he did certainly was no different than the reat of what was happening in that game. How can a MLS ref be this bad?

Thankfully, DMB in his post game said "I can't believe that wasn't a PK, Onstahd just came and clobbered me!".

[MidwestRef]

I won't get into any more "ref-bashing" than I already have done. All I really wanted to convey is that, as officials, we have to take our "moments of truth" very seriously and make the critical calls when necessary. I think we all could have foreseen a very physical game. It was, after all, a rematch of the final from 2003. Whether it's MLS or a U-14 competitive game, calling fouls early should give the message of firm control of a match. In the first 15 minutes of a game, I operate under the "call a foul if in doubt" school of thought. When I do this, my matches usually run smoothly. When I don't, games usually get pretty rough.

[nicodemus]

How can a MLS ref be this bad?
This is suprising after the atrocious refereeing display from last week across the entire league?

[GlennAA11]

I'm not sure this game was so totally out of hand. I thought it was a very exciting, end to end match. I think the speed of the play made it very challenging, and there were a number of occasions where I thought the referee got a little bit caught not anticipating when things were going to break quickly to the other end.

I think the only PK that was clear cut was the one on Beasley. It was basically the exact same thing Raimondo did last week which was called a PK. As I said at the time I was interested to see if that would be called a PK every time, and clearly we now have the answer. The other two were pretty iffy. I think Razov, who's as a big a cheat as anyone, was looking to draw a call but it was pretty marginal. The one on Donovan who's only slightly less of a cheat was more of a foul, but the actual foul there started outside the area, so I would say a DFK just outside the area would have been a reasonable call. After he blew the one on Beasley though I don't think he could give that one against Chicago at that stage of the game.

On the red card play and what led up to it I think the referee might have been slightly unsighted on Williams' tackle, which did win the ball first but then made contact which brought the player down. Could have been a foul but I didn't think that play was especially vicious. The retaliation by Corralles was very violent and ugly. We'll see if the discipline committee adds an extra fine for that play.

I don't think this was Marufo's best game, but other than the PK he missed on Beasley I didn't think it was so awful.

[MidwestRef]

Glenn, I guess we'll go back into a discussion on the role of the fourth official. If the referee was unsighted, then why didn't the fourth official communicate with him regarding the severity of the Williams tackle after he sent off Corrales? While I was watching the game, I immediately thought Williams' tackle was a yellow for the scissors action. Murrafo could (should?) have consulted the fourth to see if the Williams tackle was a catalyst for Corrales' brutish behavior. I'm certainly not defending Corrales. He should be suspended for an additional game for his deliberate attempt to injure.

Based on the highlights from last week's games, I certianly didn't think the officials' calls on those highlights were terrible. I'll watch the DC-SJ tape tomorrow and pay close attention to Stott's performance. I thought Terry Vaughn nailed the offside call and the handball affecting the Burn-Rapids game. I think much of the criticism of the officiating through the first two weeks is coming from fans that have a slightly biased view of events.

[Jimjamesak]

You know I'd kinda like to know what in the hell is going on with the MLS refs so far. All of them have been struggling to keep control of games and have been tossing out cards, not a good sign. Hopefully the boys at the National Assessors office can straighten them out.

[Statesman]

I'm not going to engage in the "ref bashing" anymore either. I've just come to expect horrible officiating in MLS games. What surprises me is when there is actually a GOOD officiated game. It almost inspires me to lace up the boots and get back into the professional games myself.

I'm not too sure I buy the PC style of criticizing a referee either though to be honest. "It was just a bad game," "I'm sure he's a perfectly fine ref who just made a couple mistakes," "We didn't have the angle he did, he had a better angle," "Hey, he's worked for that level and must be doing something right..." Seems to me the MLS crews are really botching what could be some really nice games -- and I know there are "better" refs out there because I see them every Sunday at the amateur games. I don't care if they've worked hard, are nice guys who are trying their hardest, are having a bad day, or any other excuse. The fact remains they are doing a horrible job and nothing seems to be changing, year after year.

[nicodemus]

The fact remains they are doing a horrible job and nothing seems to be changing, year after year. Sure, its early still, but I'd venture to say that it has been much worse this year than it was last year. How many red cards (and yellow cards) have we seen already? At least 4 reds and over 20 yellows in 6 games. I certainly haven't seen that much violent behavior (and yes I know there's other reasons to give cards), but they certainly seem card happy very early. That's 4 cards per game, and I've watched and or seen highlights of all the games and that just seems excessive.

[GlennAA11]

At least 5 red cards now. I think there have been some clear instructions about the sorts of things the league wants eliminated. According to what I have read and heard elbows and retaliation are points of emphasis along with the continuing crack down on dissent. I have actually seen relatively little open dissent. Maybe the players have just learned to be less demonstrative.

In general I think the games have been quite entertaining, especially so early in the season. Last weekend I only really got to see the DC-SJ and LA-NE games in their entirety and part of the KC-Chi game. I saw what we could of the game this afternoon and now the first half of DC-LA. The games have been pretty open and while there has been some physical play it hasn't seemed to be particularly dirty. I don't think the refs are screwing things up so badly. People in every league in the world bitch about the refs for one reason or another.

How many cards should we see? I don't know what the answer to that really is. Both of the reds in the DC-SJ game appeared to be deserved. Waibel's tackle was certainly studs up SFP, and Dema's elbow/hand slap was clearly the sort of thing they are trying to erase from the game. Everyone ought to be able to agree that Corralles's vicious tackle was SFP and then some. The two reds in the KC-Chi game were perhaps marginal, but I think the players need to be able to control themselves especially over something as dumb as a throw in. If the refs called too much people would complain they were ruining the flow.

Of the yellows I have seen they seem to have been pretty well deserved. The ones in the DC-SJ game were pretty much no-brainers, and I would argue he could have probably handed out a couple more. The one on Ralph this afternoon was reasonable for that reckless challenge from behind.

The referee can almost always do a little better when it comes to game control and man management, but you know the players also bear some responsibility to the game to keep themselves under control and be disciplined. All the participants in the match need to have some respect for the game and the other participants.

[gorilla]

I thought the official lost control of the match by not carding Williams for the tackle right before Corrales' red card tackle. In fact, Williams had a series of questionable tackles so he could have been booked for Persistent Infringement without the scissors tackle. You could see the San Jose players get frustrated with Williams' behavior. I thought the red card tackle was a result of the way the game had been going.

That said, I agree with Glenn that the poor game management is no excuse on Corrales' part. The players need to keep themselves on the field.

By the way, the main ESPN2 camera angle was awesome. It was wide enough so that you could see people making runs and plays develop. It made the game really fun to watch.

[brichter]

I was pretty upset with ESPN2. I was at the game, and taped it (or taped what was on during the game's time slot). Thet didn't cut to the game until ~34th minute.
There were plenty of chances early on for Jair to set the tone, but he seemed to have forgotten the yellow card in the locker room. Maybe he was gunshy after his issue with the yellow card last season.
There were 3 handling calls not made on the far side of the field (right in front of my seats, the section known as the Referee section). The first one Jim Curtin was running and flipped his forearm from horizontal to vertical to play the ball to his feet. That may have been too fast to catch by Jair, but the AR was in position with no call. The second was a little more obvious, and the 3rd by Chris Armas was so blatant as to be bordering on ridiculous, but none were called, and the AR was in position to see all of them.
The frustration of the Quakes players was pretty obvious, and there was probably a couple of dissent calls that were passed on. During this time, there were some tactical fouls that were not sanctioned also, on both sides of the ball, and there were several of us in the section who were getting the impression thast it was only a matter of time. Unfortunately, we were proven right. The yellow was definitely a tool that should have been used.
As far as the Williams tackle on Mulrooney, the USSF refresher I attended a couple of months ago was very specific that scissoring tackles needed to be sanctioned without fail, to the point that the instructor mentioned that advantage should not be applied unless it was an imminent GSO, as serious injury can result.
Looking at the tackle on the tape, it was definitely a card, I would have looked at it as "Why should I not issue a red?" The ball was played first, no doubt, but the force of the continuing contact and the wrap of the legs around the other player really seemed beyond careless or reckless, to the point of being a deliberate attempt to injure, and of course there was no question as to the send off for Corrales.
He did finally show the yellow later in the match, but it seemed to be a case of too little too late.
This game seemed to be the perfect example of the mantra: "You had to use the red card because you failed to control the match earlier." They drill that into us every chance they get, but sometimes the in the heat of the game, we forget these little things, and wind up having to deal with the big thing.
Hopefully he'll remember it.

[MidwestRef]

I'm not too sure I buy the PC style of criticizing a referee either though to be honest.

I didn't watch enough games of Murrafo last year to give me an opinion on him one way or another. I'd have to watch some more games in order to get a substantial opinion of him. As a fairly new referee, I'm still having trouble recognizing some of the guys who aren't Vaughn, Stott, or Hall.

[superdave]

As far as the Williams tackle on Mulrooney, the USSF refresher I attended a couple of months ago was very specific that scissoring tackles needed to be sanctioned without fail, to the point that the instructor mentioned that advantage should not be applied unless it was an imminent GSO, as serious injury can result.
One of the things that I hate when I'm watching a match on TV is how players always argue they got the ball first when they scissor a player, and then the announcers back up the player. Drives me nuts. I would like to see FIFA make a big stinking hairy deal that scissoring is always a foul, no matter whether the defender gets the ball first or not.

I wonder if that has any impact on the CR's view of things.

[stillgreyhound]

At least 5 red cards now. I think there have been some clear instructions about the sorts of things the league wants eliminated. According to what I have read and heard elbows and retaliation are points of emphasis along with the continuing crack down on dissent. I have actually seen relatively little open dissent. Maybe the players have just learned to be less demonstrative.

In general I think the games have been quite entertaining, especially so early in the season. Last weekend I only really got to see the DC-SJ and LA-NE games in their entirety and part of the KC-Chi game. I saw what we could of the game this afternoon and now the first half of DC-LA. The games have been pretty open and while there has been some physical play it hasn't seemed to be particularly dirty. I don't think the refs are screwing things up so badly. People in every league in the world bitch about the refs for one reason or another.

How many cards should we see? I don't know what the answer to that really is. Both of the reds in the DC-SJ game appeared to be deserved. Waibel's tackle was certainly studs up SFP, and Dema's elbow/hand slap was clearly the sort of thing they are trying to erase from the game. Everyone ought to be able to agree that Corralles's vicious tackle was SFP and then some. The two reds in the KC-Chi game were perhaps marginal, but I think the players need to be able to control themselves especially over something as dumb as a throw in. If the refs called too much people would complain they were ruining the flow.

Of the yellows I have seen they seem to have been pretty well deserved. The ones in the DC-SJ game were pretty much no-brainers, and I would argue he could have probably handed out a couple more. The one on Ralph this afternoon was reasonable for that reckless challenge from behind.

The referee can almost always do a little better when it comes to game control and man management, but you know the players also bear some responsibility to the game to keep themselves under control and be disciplined. All the participants in the match need to have some respect for the game and the other participants.
Dude??? Are you a plant from MLS to try and convince us that the officiating isnt horrible or have you just spent too many games in the NVSL??? I have watched the past two embarrassing performances on national telivision from two referees that clearly didnt know how to control a game.
This week in the SJ game not only did I have to watch a game played by grown men on a child sized field I had to watch a reff who was clearly scared out of his mind. Scared to even call a foul, let alone a penalty or a caution. If I was freddy adiue I would make darn sure I had a claus in my contract for injury due to foul play. Thank god the season starts here next week so I dont have to watch this crap to get my soccer fix.

[Malaga CF fan]

One of the things that I hate when I'm watching a match on TV is how players always argue they got the ball first when they scissor a player, and then the announcers back up the player. Drives me nuts. I would like to see FIFA make a big stinking hairy deal that scissoring is always a foul, no matter whether the defender gets the ball first or not.

I wonder if that has any impact on the CR's view of things.

Agreed, I also thought Williams went in studs up, which should have been another fairly easy decision for the referee. Combine the 3 or 4 things that made Williams tackle so dangerous (and clearly a foul) and it's easy to see why Corrales responded the way he did.

One of the things I learned in one of the first reffing courses I took was how the referee can control the game by making calls and not allowing the game to escalate. The ref makes the call on Williams (and I think gives a deserved yellow) then the direct red card to Corrales never happens. Thus, the referee is able to reign in control of the game just a little bit...

I can only think that the referee in this match didn't or couldn't see the Williams challenge, because that was a classic studs up, scissors tackle, most of the time, that's an easy call to make as an official when you see it.

Obviously, there's no easier place to make the call than your own sofa in front of the TV, but I was out of my seat thinking the call should have been made, it looked that clear. Contact with the ball in this case, means little because of the dangerous play of Williams.

[PVancouver]

I think GlennAA11 got it exactly right in his first post.

I was highly upset with Eric Wynalda for saying Jair clearly missed three PKs, when he only missed the first one and should have been praised for not calling the other two.

As for the play of Williams, I think Mulrooney made a meal of the first foul. I just didn't Williams make the type of contact on Mulrooney that would cause Mulrooney to hold his ankle and limp around like he did. My apologies to Mulrooney if I misread the play. Williams was appropriately called for a foul, however.

Mulrooney recovered quickly enough when the ball popped his way. I didn't think Williams charge did enough damage to Mulrooney to draw a foul. Clearly, Williams beat Mulrooney to the ball. While his right foot studs did end up in the air, they were turned away from Mulrooney. Williams momentum spun him around, but he didn't make significant contact with his left leg either. A foul could have been called, as Williams did trip the man, but a no call was certainly appropriate. At least Wynalda didn't complain about the call & non-call on Williams, so I give him props for that.

I thought Waibel was unfairly sent off in DC, but that's another story. Corralles got what he deserved.

[Ref Flunkie]

Yup good ol' Wynalda with the "objective" view of officiating that he gives. I thought the game was fine. I could care less how the game is managed as long as it doesn't end in a brawl and as long as it is an exciting game. For a 0-0 tie, it was pretty exciting. I wish people would stop nitpicking every call *coughWynaldacough*, and just enjoy the game.

[stillgreyhound]

Yup good ol' Wynalda with the "objective" view of officiating that he gives. I thought the game was fine. I could care less how the game is managed as long as it doesn't end in a brawl and as long as it is an exciting game. For a 0-0 tie, it was pretty exciting. I wish people would stop nitpicking every call *coughWynaldacough*, and just enjoy the game.
Boy you guys sure set your sights high! I guess I hold myself and others to a little higher standard.

[superdave]

We're getting into "media" here, but I've long believed that MLS announcers aren't allowed to be too critical of players or the league. So they go after the referees, who are fair game, like hungry dogs after a bone.

Granted, MLS CRs are substandard, arguably the weakest aspect of the league (personally, I'd put them #2 behind the stadium situation.) But announcers have the need to be "controversial" and they can't go after players or management. What's left?

PVancouver...I thought the last play was a clear PK on the replay, but not easy to see live.