Unsporting behaviour caution?

[NHRef]

I just found this site and love it.

Anyway, I have a question, I ref'd a U16-boys indoor game last week where it was a clear mismatch. Toward the end of the game, the leading team was quietly picking on one of their team members for not scoring yet, it was currently 11-3. A few minutes later, the leading team keeper took the ball upfield, lost it and it went right to the previously mentioned player who had not scored yet. He proceeded to turn and kick the ball into his own, now unguarded net, he then ran around the field a bit with his hands up in celebration yelling about finally scoring.

I awarded the goal making it 11-4, but did not say anything to the coach or player in question. Personally I found the scenario totally uncalled for and disgusting. I did report it to the league officials who said they would "take care of it".

Would I have been correct is cautioning him for USB? It possibly could have sent him a message about being an idiot.

[whipple]

...Would I have been correct is cautioning him for USB? It possibly could have sent him a message about being an idiot.

If it were a case where the player scored on his own team to taunt or humiliate the opponent, then a caution for UB might be justified, particularly if you were concerned about retaliation. We do not normally caution players for being idiots or because we are personally offended by their behavior. Misconduct requires that the offense be against the spirit and/or letter of the laws, including instructions and rules of competition.

To my knowledge, there is no prohibition against a team scoring against itself. In fact, there was an incident last year where a team scored something like a hundred goals against itself as a protest against the official.

Sherman

[PVancouver]

Unsporting behavior does not have to be committed against an opponent.

If you found it "totally uncalled for and disgusting" then a yellow card for bring the game into disrepute or for a goal celebration in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory manner is certainly in order. Merely scoring an own goal on purpose should be enough to draw a card.

If, on the other hand, you felt his teammates deserved what they were getting and that the kid had had a rough enough time as it was, you might let it go. I don't anyone would be screaming for a yellow card in that situation.

[billf]

Unsporting behavior does not have to be committed against an opponent.

If you found it "totally uncalled for and disgusting" then a yellow card for bring the game into disrepute or for a goal celebration in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory manner is certainly in order. Merely scoring an own goal on purpose should be enough to draw a card.

If, on the other hand, you felt his teammates deserved what they were getting and that the kid had had a rough enough time as it was, you might let it go. I don't anyone would be screaming for a yellow card in that situation.

Do you referee? I ask because you have some bizarre ideas about this game.

[Laggard]

I'd yellow card the twirp just for being such a jerk.

[refmike]

Law 10 says "The team scoring the greater number of goals during a match is the winner." So an own goal is counted for the team that put the ball in the net, right? ;-)

[IASocFan]

Would I have been correct is cautioning him for USB? It possibly could have sent him a message about being an idiot.

Except for the game in Africa which Whipple had referenced, I have no point of reference. They didn't give yellow cards in that game which ended like 150-0.

My approach would be to talk to the team's captain. I would remind him he is responsible for his players, and that unsporting behaviour towards players on either side is a cautionable offense. He should deal with the problem before you have to.

[Crowdie]

If you found it "totally uncalled for and disgusting" then a yellow card for bring the game into disrepute or for a goal celebration in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory manner is certainly in order. Merely scoring an own goal on purpose should be enough to draw a card.

I disagree. The advice you are quoting is to stop players inciting opposing spectators and players.

If, on the other hand, you felt his teammates deserved what they were getting and that the kid had had a rough enough time as it was, you might let it go. I don't anyone would be screaming for a yellow card in that situation.

Sounds like the rest of the team got what they deserved. I wouldn't want to be that kid at the next training as the coach may have some issues.

Crowdie

[IASocFan]

In re-reading this thread, I noticed that this was an indoor game. Most of the indoor that I'm familiar with is a lot more casual than the outdoor game. Fewer players and coaches per team, no practice time (just games), and no league standings. The game is as intense, but except for tournaments, no one remembers the score or who won after a week or two.

In the above environment, definitely no yellow card, but a word to the team.

[whipple]

Unsporting behavior does not have to be committed against an opponent.

You are correct.


If you found it "totally uncalled for and disgusting" then a yellow card for bring the game into disrepute or for a goal celebration in a provocative, derisory or inflammatory manner is certainly in order. Merely scoring an own goal on purpose should be enough to draw a card.

If, on the other hand, you felt his teammates deserved what they were getting and that the kid had had a rough enough time as it was, you might let it go. I don't anyone would be screaming for a yellow card in that situation.

Here you are wrong on both counts.

It is not about the referee or the referee's sensibilities. A referee must learn to leave his personal views on the sidelines for the 90 minutes s/he is officiating a match and assume the role of the arbitor of the standards or values set by the players and the match. This determines how you manage the game and where you set the bar for fouls and misconduct.

An own goal is not misconduct whether deliberate or accidental. It is simply a goal. Taunting or ridiculing an opponet, on the other hand, is misconduct and must be dealt with.

Therefore, it is not a matter of "letting it go" if a player deliberately scores against his own team, there is nothing to let go to start with because it is not, in itself, misconduct.

It would only be misconduct if this were done to humiliate the opponent, because this would be unfair and unsporting. Otherwise, even if the player is acting like a jerk, it is nothing.

Further, even if the players are acting like jerks, this is no excuse for the referee to join them.

So, Paul, last I remember you had taken the entry level course. How is is going? Have you done many games? If you have, how, if any, has this changed your perception of the sport?

Sherman

[NHRef]

thanks everyone. I wasn't sure so I kept the card in the pocket.

I've had my grade 8 badge since summer and think spending the winter doing indoor games is a very worthwhile thing, the game is faster and tends to have more contact, I have been doing the games along with my son (we usually take 4-6 games in a stretch and alternate), games have mostly been u-12, some u16 for me. I think the indoor reffing gives you sort of a crash course in calling fouls and learning what to look for. Smaller field, a bit faster pace leads to more contact.

though I am really looking forward to getting outside again!!

--Bob

[Statesman]

Indoor soccer is an excellent tool for developing your ability to read the game and position yourself properly because if you don't, you'll get smashed into. You'll find from doing indoor that you naturally react quicker and feel more comfortable in tight situations in an outdoor game.

Now, getting back to your incident ...

Indoor soccer does not typically utilize a yellow card, unless the arena is on the VERY antequated two-card system. If the arena uses the three-card system then a blue card with 2 minute time penalty may be justified. From your description it sounds like the boy was out of line, running around and hollering and acting very immaturely. Also remember that indoor arenas are businesses that wish to maintain a certain level of dignity with their players -- there are women and children usually in the audience, and everything that takes place on the field can be heard by them. They wouldn't as easily pick up on the conversations that take place in outdoor soccer for obvious reasons. Think about what kind of example the player is setting for the kids ... and what example you are setting by doing nothing.

Anyway, ask the manager of the arena how he would like the situation handled in the future. They said they will "take care of it," which is fine for that particular player but provides no feedback on what to do if it happens again. Ultimately the referee should do whatever the arena manager wishes, which is not always what the lawbook says.

[jc508]

For me, I would have to consider how the use of a card would help or hurt the overall control of the match. If you felt things were getting out of control, a card may have helped to re-establish your authority and control.

If you don't use a card, I would urge you to at least take the player aside and talk to the player. Ascertain the player's attitude to determine if you need to card him or not. At least admonish him gently and with understanding tell him the problem he has created with his action.

If you do nothing, I believe it suggests to the other team that you are condoning what was done. You may not be guilty as a complicitor, but you are more like a spectator with the power to stop a crime and you allow it to continue. Your non-action allows the bad behavior to continue unpunished.

I also have to agree that it would be good to talk to the captain or coach (if there is one) to help put a lid on such actions. This type of behavior seems funny to adolescents who do not realize how much and who they hurt.

Hope you and everyone around you have fun on the pitch.

[mutinywxgirl]

NHref - just wanted to welcome you to the BigSoccer family. It's a great group around here!

[NHRef]

I did another U16 boys game Saturday night and IT HAPPENED AGAIN, well almost. Same lopsided scenario, ironically same "weaker" team (there are two classes of teams in this league and its lopsided when teams from the two meet). League officials said to yellow card the offending player (two card system, yellow is an off the field for 2 minutes penalty).

Leading team would bring the ball up field, almost to mid-field, then turn and blast one as hard as they could at their own keeper. I overheard them discussing it and they admitted they were trying to keep a shutout from their own keeper (heck there's better ways than that). As I went by the bench the following exchange happened:

Me: "I sure hope you don't score on your own goalie, from my point of view that would not be a good."

Player on bench:" we are just passing back to the keeper, that's allowed"

Me: "If one of those "passes" goes in, I won't be happy."

Coach called out to players: "ok guys, that's enough of that."

Never happened again. I felt this was a good way to handle it and it worked.

--Bob

[stillgreyhound]

I did another U16 boys game Saturday night and IT HAPPENED AGAIN, well almost. Same lopsided scenario, ironically same "weaker" team (there are two classes of teams in this league and its lopsided when teams from the two meet). League officials said to yellow card the offending player (two card system, yellow is an off the field for 2 minutes penalty).

Leading team would bring the ball up field, almost to mid-field, then turn and blast one as hard as they could at their own keeper. I overheard them discussing it and they admitted they were trying to keep a shutout from their own keeper (heck there's better ways than that). As I went by the bench the following exchange happened:

Me: "I sure hope you don't score on your own goalie, from my point of view that would not be a good."

Player on bench:" we are just passing back to the keeper, that's allowed"

Me: "If one of those "passes" goes in, I won't be happy."

Coach called out to players: "ok guys, that's enough of that."

Never happened again. I felt this was a good way to handle it and it worked.

--Bob
You should quit doing U16 and try to get some work with MLS.......I think you have a better understanding of man management then many of the reffs Ive seen!

[whipple]

...League officials said to yellow card the offending player (two card system, yellow is an off the field for 2 minutes penalty).


Bob,

Because in indoor we are independent contractors hired to enforce the house rules, the management of the rink have every right to tell us what and how to enforce their rules, and can even tell us to caution players for acts which are not themselves misconduct, even though it makes us look like total fools out there, and creates the potential for more serious problems.

Some of the indoor facilities where I work have rules which are nearly as silly as a manditory caution for a player scoring an own goal. I presume from this point on that ALL own goals must now be cautioned in that league? If not, where do you draw the line?

I get such a kick when rink managers try to explain their house rules. For example most facilities to your South use three cards, blue, yellow and red. For some rinks the blue is for major penalties, and specifically boarding, and comes with a 2 minute penalty. A player can recive multiple blues, though it may begin approach PI. Misconduct, however, is dealt with using the same standards as we do outdoors and showing only the yellow and red.

Other facilities, such as one where I do the most games, treat the blue, yellow, red sequence as "three strikes and you're out". Blue is a first offense (though certain offenses go directly to yellow or red), yellow is the second and red is a third. They also have a manditory caution for a defender committing an offense in the PA leading to a PK. I have had seveal matches where this has led to some serious injustice and left a real nasty taste in my mouth.

Sherman