Please Help Me Understand

[SLC25]

Bayern is one of the richest clubs in the world, according to Forbes and other sources Bayern is the fourth richest club in the world.

According to Uli Hoeness money don't grow on trees, which I agree ofcourse, but why do teams who are supposed to less richer than Bayern (Liverpool for example) spend more in the transfer market.

Last season Bayern Brought Borrowski, Oddo and Breno. Breno was the only player who did cost something and thats 12 mil euros. And in return Bayern sold Jansen for 9 mil euros.

So basically speaking, Bayern spent only 3 mil euros in the transfer market last season. Where did the rest of the money go? I assume in the bank.

Now I understand the club's strict policy when it comes to spending. but to compete they have to loose it up. As a fan am not asking them to do year in year out, but it is needed to compete in Europe.

Why can't Bayern spend big this year after they spent very little last year?

I know you will call me crazy for this, but I read Milan are willing to sell Kaka for 65 mil euros to clear their debts.

Now lets put aside wether the player wants to join Bayern or not. and lets forget that this report of Milan offloading him is true or not. Will Bayern ever spend this much to buy a player who is 27 years (atleast 6 good years ahead of him) and probably is the 3rd best player in the world?

I believe Bayern should break the bank, restore the club's respect in europe and pay big for big players, or else what good will it bring to hold on Ribery this year if he will leave the next to find a bigger team?

The Gomez deal was fantastic, he is one of the best strikers in the world and young too. but getting Gomez with an average RB and CM/CAM and not getting a top class GK won't cut it anymore.

When will Bayern's management think of winning the CL again?

[shealygg]

We address this and other very similar questions on a regular basis in the "Transfer" thread....

Take a look here...

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17799919#post17799919

[terrypk1]

Bayern is one of the richest clubs in the world, according to Forbes and other sources Bayern is the fourth richest club in the world.

According to Uli Hoeness money don't grow on trees, which I agree ofcourse, but why do teams who are supposed to less richer than Bayern (Liverpool for example) spend more in the transfer market.

Last season Bayern Brought Borrowski, Oddo and Breno. Breno was the only player who did cost something and thats 12 mil euros. And in return Bayern sold Jansen for 9 mil euros.
.......
.
.
.
.
.

When will Bayern's management think of winning the CL again?


there is a major difference between money that belongs to the club and money that does not. The club's profit belongs to the club but that does not include investment money...or money from the Arabians...so on.

Many of the priemier league team can on spending like this..because aside from profit they aslo have quite a bit of investment coming in.

it used to be the case that the spanish government invested in REal madrid by selling some of their lands..and that allowed Real to buy a few big transfer.

[SLC25]

We address this and other very similar questions on a regular basis in the "Transfer" thread....

Take a look here...

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17799919#post17799919

Thanks for the clarification, but I am only discussing the financial part here. the moderators can merge it if they feel apropriate

[SLC25]

there is a major difference between money that belongs to the club and money that does not. The club's profit belongs to the club but that does not include investment money...or money from the Arabians...so on.

Many of the priemier league team can on spending like this..because aside from profit they aslo have quite a bit of investment coming in.

it used to be the case that the spanish government invested in REal madrid by selling some of their lands..and that allowed Real to buy a few big transfer.

Well Barcelona spends way more than us and there is no one investing in their club. and Real sold their land 9 years ago for 300 milion that am sure was spent long time ago.

I am not asking to spend like Chelsea. nor to spend big year in year out.

[aloisius]

Well Barcelona spends way more than us and there is no one investing in their club. and Real sold their land 9 years ago for 300 milion that am sure was spent long time ago.

I am not asking to spend like Chelsea. nor to spend big year in year out.

barcelona and real have a larger income without an outside benefactor/ investor as do man united .

bayern have spend as much as liverpool in recent years, just not as efficiently.

last summer a few things happened. they were hoping podolski was going to produce under klinsmann and didn't sign another striker to give him the chance.

they thought sagnol was going to recover from injury and only signed oddo on loan to help the team out until sagnol returns.

rensing was promised the gk position after kahn retires and he actually did well enough when kahn was injured to suggest that he is worth the shot.

they went after a couple of players for the dm position, they didn't get them and thought they could get through the season without one.


all of that of course proved to wrong. podolski did nothing, sagnol retired, oddo isn't good enough, they same with rensing .

as far as the dm thing goes, klinsman could have solved that by playing demichelis in that position when no one new was signed.


the larger point is this. bayern will only go as far as the rest of the bundesliga pushes them to go. if the team is good enough to win the bundesliga , it makes no sense to invest an extra 40-50 mil euros because that guarantees you nothing in the cl.
it comes down to a couple of games and the draw in the quarterfinals.

you can't invest a lot of money on the bet that it will win you the cl qf. it is far too risky.

the only sensible thing to do is to invest enough to be the best team in germany and go as far in the cl as that will take you.

[Equilibrium]

you can't invest a lot of money on the bet that it will win you the cl qf. it is far too risky.
That is the risk every successful club so far is taking to do well in Europe, Bayern not being one of them and it showing because of it. We didn't spend anything last summer, the topic creator is right here and some money from last season should be spent this season.

[aloisius]

they have to spend the money to keep up domestically.

whether man united would spend the money they do if the next best team was everton is highly questionable . i don't think they would.

[humin12]

I think that's a pretty bad example don you think? The CL is pretty much SAF's Holy Grail.

[aloisius]

I think that's a pretty bad example don you think? The CL is pretty much SAF's Holy Grail.

it's obviously completely imaginary, cause the whole european club scene would be vastly different if the english league wasn't as strong as it is.


with their rivals being as strong as they are they have no choice but to keep spending to stay ahead of them . and they know , if they are reasonably competent , that their investment will show its impact over a 38 game season. the side effect of that is that they will also be very strong contenders for the cl.

that is a much more solid position than hoping that the the extra money you invest will get you a round or two further in the cl.

that's regardless of what ferguson would like more.

[Equilibrium]

they have to spend the money to keep up domestically.

whether man united would spend the money they do if the next best team was everton is highly questionable . i don't think they would.
Based on what proof do you think so? All the big clubs pay the money to compete both domestically and in the Champions League. Inter already has Serie A on a leash, yet they want to spend a ridiculous money to improve in the Champions League. Same with Real Madrid. Now what proof other than your opinion do you have that these big boys wouldn't spend to compete in Europe?

This is just a poor excuse from management since 1) they are cheap and 2) they simply don't have the balls to do what's necessary and are satisfied/deluded into mediocrity.

[SLC25]

barcelona and real have a larger income without an outside benefactor/ investor as do man united .

bayern have spend as much as liverpool in recent years, just not as efficiently.

last summer a few things happened. they were hoping podolski was going to produce under klinsmann and didn't sign another striker to give him the chance.

.
.
.

the only sensible thing to do is to invest enough to be the best team in germany and go as far in the cl as that will take you.

Real spends year in and year out over 100 mil euros. I am not asking for that. But I don't think Bayern would financially colapse if they spend that amount for a specific year.

Last summer they didn't spend because they were counting on some players who didn't produce. ok were did the money they saved go?

This year Bayern made 42 mil euros for reaching the quarter finals thats TV renenue only. I recall the year we were eliminated from the group stages (2003?) KHR assured everyone that the club won't go into reuins because they set their budget on reaching the group stages only (very conservative).

So a big chunck of those 42 mil are excess.

One other fact. Wolfsburg were the biggest spenders in the Bundesliga last summer. Look at what happened.

[SLC25]

That is the risk every successful club so far is taking to do well in Europe, Bayern not being one of them and it showing because of it. We didn't spend anything last summer, the topic creator is right here and some money from last season should be spent this season.

Thanks for agreeing. Barcelona spent 90 mil euros last summer on Alves, Yaya Toure and Pique along others. look at their quality right now.

[SLC25]

Based on what proof do you think so? All the big clubs pay the money to compete both domestically and in the Champions League. Inter already has Serie A on a leash, yet they want to spend a ridiculous money to improve in the Champions League. Same with Real Madrid. Now what proof other than your opinion do you have that these big boys wouldn't spend to compete in Europe?

This is just a poor excuse from management since 1) they are cheap and 2) they simply don't have the balls to do what's necessary and are satisfied/deluded into mediocrity.
100% Agree
Even before Abrahimovic bought Chelsea and Liverpool were contending in the UEFA Cup, Man Utd were spending big. Rio Ferdinand became the most expensive defender in the world in 2001. Long before Chelsea and Liverpool became contenders.

[ForeverRed]

there is a major difference between money that belongs to the club and money that does not. The club's profit belongs to the club but that does not include investment money...or money from the Arabians...so on.

Many of the priemier league team can on spending like this..because aside from profit they aslo have quite a bit of investment coming in.

it used to be the case that the spanish government invested in REal madrid by selling some of their lands..and that allowed Real to buy a few big transfer.

*****Revenue from TV Contracts*************

Key difference! Compared to clubs in the top three leagues, Bayern and other Bundesliga clubs don't come close in this regard. This provides other clubs with a massive financial advantage as well as leeway in their spending.

What they do make probably covers a lot of the operating costs and keeps the club in a healthy financial state. Whatever is left goes into investment funds for transfers.

Their ideology pretty much resembles: First comes the financial status of the club/business at whatever cost. Second is the matter of the squad.

[SLC25]

*****Revenue from TV Contracts*************

Key difference! Compared to clubs in the top three leagues, Bayern and other Bundesliga clubs don't come close in this regard. This provides other clubs with a massive financial advantage as well as leeway in their spending.

What they do make probably covers a lot of the operating costs and keeps the club in a healthy financial state. Whatever is left goes into investment funds for transfers.

Their ideology pretty much resembles: First comes the financial status of the club/business at whatever cost. Second is the matter of the squad.

Few Facts here:
-German clubs are the most profitable clubs in the world for the last 3 years.

-The Bundisliga is the second highest league in Total revenue. It is the highest in tickets revenue (Highest attendance in Europe double the number of Italy) and the highest in sponsorship revenue.

-While the gap is big between the Premier League and Bundisliga, England has 20 top flight team, Germany has 18. In England they have bigger squads because of a longer FA cup and Carling cup which Germany does not have an equivelant.

-In average salaries eat up about 65% of english teams revenue in comparison the average is 45% in Germany.

With all these facts I find it difficult to understand why the richest club in Germany can't compete with the other clubs in Europe for a single year

[humin12]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Income.html
I don't know how Forbes calculates their shit, but in their list Bayern are among the clubs with largest revenues, TV revenues included, only to be outranked by the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Manchester United.
But as you can see our Operating Costs are quite poor: Lyon, Roma, and Potato Tots out rank us. As I said, I wouldn't know how Forbes comes up with these numbers but I assume we are in such a position because of the massive amount of money (something like 30 million?) we pay each year for the stadium, as proven by the giagantic 0 in "Debt/Value %".
In other words, we truly are in excellent financial shape and there's no ifs or buts about the fact we are one of the richest clubs in the world. It all boils down to the fiscal responsibility of the management in that they refuse to take loans like the clubs above us and the amount of money they decide to pay every year for the stadium.

[ForeverRed]

Revenue doesn't automatically equal into large transfer budgets or the willingness to spend.

[shealygg]

Revenue doesn't automatically equal into large transfer budgets or the willingness to spend.
Having the funds available and choosing to use those funds are two entirely different matters.

@SLC25....

With all these facts I find it difficult to understand why the richest club in Germany can't compete with the other clubs in Europe for a single year

Once again, I think it's a matter of choice....Can FCB compete from a financial basis? I think they probably can, but simply choose not to because of their financial conservatism.

I think the frustration comes when they "talk the talk" about being more competitive, but are unwilling to "walk the walk." At least that's my take...

[humin12]

Revenue doesn't automatically equal into large transfer budgets or the willingness to spend.
Are you referring to my post?

Also, I meant Operating revenue and not Operating costs lol