Playmaking midfielder for 2006

[lmorin]

OK, folks, I am saying it now: Eddie Gaven will be the playmaker when 2006 comes around. Yesterday, he was on the field opposite another applicant for the job, Kyle Martino. No contest. Gaven has skill, pace and immense foresight. He reads the game superbly, doesn't get tackled much and hits wonderful passes. Now, granted, he is surrounded by excellent midfielders (Vaca, Guevara) and Martino is not. But, I see the central midfield future in Eddie Gaven. Someone has to step up and fill that gap on the Nats. He's the only one I can see at the moment. Anybody else on the horizon you see?

[appoo]

I knew that this thread would be started. One good game against what might be the worst defense in MLS does not say much. And Kyle Martino looked pretty good at times out there.

Eddie has a boatload of skill and talent but he really hasn't separated himself from anybody just yet. Convey is still Miles and Miles ahead of him. Not mention guys like Mathis, Reyna, and O'Brien would all be selected infront of him. Probably Donovan to.

[PSsoccer123]

Kyle Martino looked nothing like the Martino in his rookie season or in the beginning of last season. I wouldn't go that far with Eddie Gaven. He doesn't play a playmaking role. I think he is better on the wing, where he is very good at taking players on. Mark Lisi is a much better playmaker. I think the central midfield for the U.s. in the WC will be O'Brien and the Ricardo Clark/Mulrooney/some other more defensive minded mid.

[lmorin]

I knew that this thread would be started. One good game against what might be the worst defense in MLS does not say much. And Kyle Martino looked pretty good at times out there.

Eddie has a boatload of skill and talent but he really hasn't separated himself from anybody just yet. Convey is still Miles and Miles ahead of him. Not mention guys like Mathis, Reyna, and O'Brien would all be selected infront of him. Probably Donovan to.

I beat you to it! :) I agree with your suggestion that Columbus might have the worst D in the league. However, it also might be the case that Metros have the best attack in the league. My comments are not based on that one game. That game merely reassured me that my previous observations were correct--both with respect to Gaven and Martino. Martino is a shadow of the player he was in the first half of last season. I don't think a Gaven comparison with Convey is useful. I would be extremely happy to have both on the field simultaneously. And, while I like Gaven, my view that he will be on the field in '06 is a prediction. I fully agree that "he hasn't separated himself from anybody just yet." But he will. And, I will add that Ricardo Clark will be there as his mate, starting at the defensive midfield position. If for no other reason than the likelihood of having both Reyna and O'Brien relatively free of injuries for a second WC is probably slim to none.

[fidlerre]

well if he'd stop floppping so much he might have a case...

kid needs to learn to stay on his feet. he won't get those calls elsewhere...

[appoo]

I beat you to it! :) I agree with your suggestion that Columbus might have the worst D in the league. However, it also might be the case that Metros have the best attack in the league. My comments are not based on that one game. That game merely reassured me that my previous observations were correct--both with respect to Gaven and Martino. Martino is a shadow of the player he was in the first half of last season. I don't think a Gaven comparison with Convey is useful. I would be extremely happy to have both on the field simultaneously. And, while I like Gaven, my view that he will be on the field in '06 is a prediction. I fully agree that "he hasn't separated himself from anybody just yet." But he will. And, I will add that Ricardo Clark will be there as his mate, starting at the defensive midfield position. If for no other reason than the likelihood of having both Reyna and O'Brien relatively free of injuries for a second WC is probably slim to none.I don't disagree that two player have a world of talent. But the kid is only 17 right now. No matter how well he produces in MLS I don't think he'll be ready for World Cup. People love to point out Donovan and Beasley being 20 year olds who started for us in 2002. But we got away with it because Arena put them in positions where they only had to rely upon thier natural athletic ability (read: blazing speed) and dribbling abilities. But they didn't play in the middle, they played along the perimeters. You can't ask a kid like Eddie Gaven to play in the middle, at 19, when the best midfielders h'll have gone up against in a meaningful match will have been Bobby Convey, Chris Armas, and Richard Mulroony. In World Cup, he'll be going up against the likes of Patrick Viera, Claude Makelele, Keano, Steven Gerrard, Paul Scholes, Xabi, Geremi, Kleberson...that would be like a fricken culture shock. The same goes for Rico Clark, Danny Szetela, and Freddy Adu the midfielder. Unless they get some experience playing against that kind of talent, its simply to risky to throw them into the fire.

[United20]

OK, folks, I am saying it now: Eddie Gaven will be the playmaker when 2006 comes around.

You said it, and we'll be sure to remind of you it in 2006 because you are a bit too anxious and should be more reserve. Don't judge a player's performance after one game - come on man, wait till the season has a chance to breath. Look, Gaven does show some skills - damn good skills for his age. But if you are implying Gaven will overtake Mathis, Reyna, or even Donovan - then get ready for a verbal beating. Go get your soccer potty-train shorts on, and come back in 2 years.

[lurking]

Columbus has the worst coach in the league. I wouldnt judge anyone on that team too harshly while he is still in charge.

[onefineesq]

I am mixed on this issue. Based upon the skill that Gaven has showed since coming into the league last year, i definitely agree that he has the SKILL to be a playmaking midfielder for the US someday. I just think that believing he will attain that in 2 years is overzealous. I don't think it is out of the question for him to make the team if he catches fire this year and next, but he is still quite young and will only be 19 or 20 at the time of the next WC. I think his situation will be different than Donovan or Beasleys situation, NOT because they have more skill (cuz i think his on the ball skill is as good as either of them), but because there is a deeper pool of players who are already in the mix than there were 4 years ago when those 2 players burst onto the scene. However, as for the contention that Convey's game is miles and miles ahead of Gaven ........ that's hogwash. Barring injury, Gaven will prove himself to be the better player at the end of their respective careers. He has better on the ball skill, and is a better passer than Convey already. Convey is just more knowledgeable of the game at this point and is a tremendous hustle player, and I admire that ......... but skillwise, Gaven has more to work with.

[sch2383]

If Gaven wants to play in the 2006 World Cup, he better start playing on the right wing. There is no way our central playmaker will be a 20 year old Eddie Gaven, not if Mathis, Convey, and JOB are healthy.

[forza inter]

everything has already been said. id like to see eddie play more myself(i just matter of factly havent had the chance to watch him really yet) before i make such statements. our central midfield is pretty well loaded with great players, and besides reyna they are all younger- JOB, mathis, convey, donovan-who does play great here- and yes, even martino. i think gavin has alot going for him still so we will have to watch him until 2006, as we know arena will. i think the us men need more consistant wing midfileders, as was said earlier..somethin along the lines of if gaven wants to play he better learn to play right wing. that spot if really wide open these days. beasley and lewis can lock that left side either way. well tahts all i wanted to say. lets hope eddie can keep his form up alllllllll the way till 2006, for your sake.



forza inter

[lmorin]

Part of my point about Gaven is that the US has no options for a playmaker other than JOB and how many games has he played since the last WC? Reyna is a superb player and a playmaker, but he tends to operate out of the defensive midfield area. Which Mathis is going to show during the next two years? The one we love or the more other version who doesn't seem to work very hard? It is early days yet with Convey, but thus far he has shown little of the patience and tight ball control needed to run a midfiield and be the central linkage between defense and attack. He has other assets that he brings to the table, however. He'll be there when it counts. If there is no room for Gaven in the middle, the right side would be just fine. Frankly, I prefer the game when LD plays forward, then right, then left, then central mid, and 4-5 others are moving around, too. Anything else is too static and too predictable at the international level.

[appoo]

watch the Poland game and keep track of what Convey does. He did exactly what you described he doesn't do. Then watch him again in about year and half when he'll have a half season in Europe

[ChrisE]

watch the Poland game and keep track of what Convey does. He did exactly what you described he doesn't do. Then watch him again in about year and half when he'll have a half season in Europe

I suspect that one season running the midfield under Nowak will do more for Convey than the vaunted 'European experience.'

[m vann]

I suspect that one season running the midfield under Nowak will do more for Convey than the vaunted 'European experience.'

I have to agree. Nowak seems to be a no frills coach, who will provide a wealth of knowledge and experience to DC United. Even though he has no prior coaching experience, I was elated when he was hired. Convey's game will certainly take off under Nowak's supervision. It will help Convey make a transition when he does head abroad. Plus, he'll be getting 90 minutes most every game.

[JoeW]

No options other than John O'Brien? That's a pretty bad indictment of your perception...

1. I'm not a big Martino fan--he needs to show me a lot more than he has so far. But...he suffers from playing for Andrulis. More importantly, Martino showed more skill and performance 2 years ago (as a rooke) as an A-mid than has Gaven so far.

2. There is Reyna. Say what you will about him but for games where we need to hold the ball and the A-mid needs to play deep, Reyna is better than anyone we've got--not even close.

3. Donovan. If any of our young strikers step up (Casey, Twellman, Eddie Johnson) or guys like McBride continue to perform, Donovan (with his excellent pace, conditioning, nice first touch, unselfishness and ability to beat people on the dribble) is a good man at A-mid. Arena has already shown he's comfortable with Landon in that role.

4. Clint Mathis. Who appears to perhaps have jumpstarted his career again in Germany. Even with all the glowing comments you've made about Gaven, there is probably no American who has shown the ability to pull a rabbit out of a hat on the soccer field like Mathis. He's not my first choice for A-mid but the man has played that role and been successful on the international stage.

5. Bobby Convey. I think he'll learn a lot from Nowak. He's already shown a lot on the International stage.

I think the world of Gaven. He is one of the best Americans taking on defenders from the dribble, has a multitude of skills, will only get better, has quite a lot of game to him. There's a lot to like there. But in all of the accolades I've ever heard him receive, this is the first time anyone has every talked about him in terms of an A-mid. Given that he was on the field with Guevara and Lisi and Vaca, he (Gaven) not only had a lot of support but he really wasn't performing as an A-mid this recent match.

I would think he has almost no chance of going to Germany. Because he doesn't have until 2006. Qualifying starts soon. He basically has the remainder of 2004 and part of 2005. At that point, there is no way (unless 8 guys blow out their knees at the same time) that Arena (or any WC coach) would bring in a complete international rookie, especially when there will be so many others in the pool with international experience.

Gaven has a bright future. But the 2006 WC isn't likely part of it.

[russ]

But we have to cap him before Ireland does.... :)

[strider026]

Martino showed more skill and performance 2 years ago (as a rooke) as an A-mid than has Gaven so far.

Martino was how old at that time? 22 I think? Gaven is 17.

I would think he has almost no chance of going to Germany. Because he doesn't have until 2006. Qualifying starts soon. He basically has the remainder of 2004 and part of 2005. At that point, there is no way (unless 8 guys blow out their knees at the same time) that Arena (or any WC coach) would bring in a complete international rookie, especially when there will be so many others in the pool with international experience.

Gaven has a bright future. But the 2006 WC isn't likely part of it.

Gaven has moved directly to the U-23 team from the U-17. If he continues to impress I would not be surprised to see him get full Nats time in 2005.

How much time did Donovan and Beasley have with the Nats before the cup? Was Donovan with them a year? I dont think Beasley had many games at all.

[JoeW]

The argument isn't that Martino will be a better player than Gaven--I don't think he will. Nor is it that Martino was better at 17 than Gaven was.

1. Martino had a full YEAR of playing A-mid and excelling before Arena called him in. I'm not arguing that's the precedent. But I am arguing that with the exception of a few rare incidents (where there was a friendly and all MLS teams except SJ and DCU were playing the same day--so Arena called up Santino Quaranta and Manny Lagos among others). But Gaven is going to have to shine at A-mid this year to get a callup. Which then means he's got the tail end of 2004 and 2005 to earn a spot. That's about a year. How many starts will Gaven get at A-mid this year for the Metros? Probably none.

2. Comparing to Donovan and DMB actually hurts your case. Donovan was invited to USMNT camps for a full year, every single camp that was held he got an invite, before he ever appeared in a game. Even then, up until about 6 months before Japorea, Arena was talking about how Donovan allowed people to muscle him off the ball, he didn't handle physical play well and that limited his appeal as a WC candidate at the time. Both Donovan and DMB got lots of looks in camp before they ever played in a match. And the reason why Donovan and DMB hurt your case is b/c...the USA was incredibly thin at those positions when they both came around. Wolff and Mathis both blew out their knees. McBride had trouble staying healthy. Ditto with JMM. Kirovski failed to impress despite repeated opportunities. Ditto with Kreis. The USA desperately needed attackers and Arena indicated the team was way too slow.

3. Arena is not going to bring someone in and play them in qualifying at a position they don't play for their club unless he's got lots of time to "season" them. Convey or Albright might play some at outside back--but they've both had friendlies at those positions and Albright is now likely to play right back for his club. When Arena moved JMM to A-mid for the WCQ at Azteca, JMM was not only an international veteran but a player who had played A-mid before (for his club and USMNT). Gaven will see lots of minutes for Metro and shine this season. But it won't be at A-mid. So to argue that Gaven would be a serious candidate for A-mid for Germany, you'd realistically have to argue that either (a) he's going to play in the role for his club in 2004 and 2005. And that won't happen--Guevara and then Vaca would be ahead of him. Or (b) he'll get about 5-10 international matches in that role before Arena would take him to a WC. Can you honestly say you see Gaven playing at A-mid 5-10 matches between now and the end of 2005? I could see him playing 5 matches as an outside mid. He's a wonderfully versatile player. I wouldn't be shocked if he stepped up, had 2 great seasons and made the WC team. But as an A-mid?

4. The jump from the U-17 to U-23 doesn't mean squat other than Gaven if a fabulously talented player with a bright future. For starters, Gaven wasn't the A-mid for either side was he? And DJ Countess made the jump from U-17 to U-23 in his time I believe--and you can see how much that has meant in terms of his USMNT minutes. Adu made the jump as well and no-ones arguing he'll be the US A-mid come Germany.

[nsamsarmy]

This is a mighty complex issue. Who will the "A-mid" be in 2006. Well, I'm a realist. If we haven't seen them in camp to this point, it's not likely we'll see anyone supplant a starter there anytime soon unless they tear up their respective league. Honestly, here are my issues with the argument for the #10:

The Bruce

We all know that familiarity breeds success with Arena. He'll throw us a couple of curve balls, but he has publicly stated that Reyna's not too old in his book.

The McFactor

I call it the "McFactor". Players like Martino who are in the pool that don't necessarily show well in MLS. I call it that for Brian McBride. It's not like he was a dominate force in the league(although not bad either), but we all can attest that BM (ha ha) is/was a hell of an international player. There are some guys out there like this. I think Martino is just a different type player than most of the guys at that spot, so we might see him in stars and stripes for qualifiers if Reyna's injured or has another nasty fit over a bad call.

Late Bloomers

While Arena did bring along Donovan and Beasley to the World Cup, he was very cautious to expose them to the rigorous task of qualifying. In our neck of the world, qualifiers are for guys who go to war with you, and the World Cup is the tournament of skill. I don't expect (unfortunately) the Eddie Gavens, Mike Magees, or the younger players of this country to be involved in the dirty business of qualifying. I too like many here would love to see them in the red, white, and blue. One day we'll get our wish. Too bad we don't play in Europe where the more civilized folks don't throw urine at you and you can play guys like Wayne Rooney and Eddie/Mikey.