Leaving the touchline

[o5iiawah]

I have a habit and im not sure if its a bad one, but whenever possible, I catch myself leaving the field of play on a throw in to be opposite my AR, keeping the ball between me and him/her. I never see any experienced refs do this, so i wonder if its a bad habit but its always helped me out. For one:

On an attacking throw, I position myself 6 yards upfield...90% of teams will throw in up the line. players crowd the line and stick boots and legs all over the place trying to play it first. Often, the player taking the throw will block the trailing ARs vision so they cant see if the ball has gone out, or if someone got a touch to it. Being right there in front of the players helps me make the right call

Also, I know with absolute certainty where the ball will go next. - Away from me. If it gets played towards me, i dont have to run and its another throw in. If im in the middle of the field, i may have to run towards the corner to track a play down but being off the field lets me be right on top of things.

anyone else use the other side of the touchline to their advantage? There's also less chance of being screened off a play.

[jayhonk]

I go off the field ALL the time in the way you describe in U12 games. On big fields, I will go there occasionally, especially if the game is getting scruffy and my presence is helpful.

The down side is the 70 yard dash that seems to follow. An equally good spot is a yard or so on the field, about 8 yards back from the thrower, with body opened to the field. The view is almost as good and the 70 yard dash is reduced to 60--also its much quicker to the top of the 18, which is the next trouble spot.

[ColumbusSoccerRef]

If I understand the way you described your positioning. . .I think this positioning makes a rather bold assumption that the throw-in and immediate play will be moving up the line and close to you. What happens if the throw goes square or back? Especially at U16+, a team will often take a throw and within one or two touches they switch the field. If you're on the touch line 6 yards from the thrower, you then have a lot of ground to cover. Sure, you have your other AR over there but as the CR you still have to get there.

Normally on a throw-in, I will position myself level with the thrower or back a few yards and probably 10-15 yards from the touch line. Most of the time, this position allows me to keep a good view and best react to whatever happens. If they play toward the corner, I can follow play maintaing a good view. If they play square and completely switch the field, I'm in a much better position to follow play since I'm not starting from such a radical spot.

Sometimes, I do take the position you describe but very rarely. When I do, it's usually to inject some presence into the situation to control jostling and such. But I'll usually let the match and the actions of the players tell me when this position is necessary. The same is true of going to the goal line for corner kicks. Good positioning not only gives you a good view of that is happening, but sets you up to get a good view of what will happen.

-- CSR

[hradilv]

I have a habit and im not sure if its a bad one, but whenever possible, I catch myself leaving the field of play on a throw in to be opposite my AR, keeping the ball between me and him/her. I never see any experienced refs do this, so i wonder if its a bad habit but its always helped me out. For one:

On an attacking throw, I position myself 6 yards upfield...90% of teams will throw in up the line. players crowd the line and stick boots and legs all over the place trying to play it first. Often, the player taking the throw will block the trailing ARs vision so they cant see if the ball has gone out, or if someone got a touch to it. Being right there in front of the players helps me make the right call

Also, I know with absolute certainty where the ball will go next. - Away from me. If it gets played towards me, i dont have to run and its another throw in. If im in the middle of the field, i may have to run towards the corner to track a play down but being off the field lets me be right on top of things.

anyone else use the other side of the touchline to their advantage? There's also less chance of being screened off a play.

I don't do that ALL the time, but I have. Other factors that come into play are - the size of the field (for U-littles it can get pretty crowded inside the touch lines) and the sun (if the sun is low and behind the thrower, the view is a lot better from off the pitch).

The main concern I would have about this is if the throw-in or a play immediately after causes the ball to go into the PA, I'd be quite a ways away and would have to run quickly through all those players to see a (probably) very important play near the goal mouth.

Use with care... YMMV.

[intechpc]

I've seen plenty of referees do this. The reasons I've been told are they do it to stay out of the way of play and to keep the play and the AR in sight. I say if it works for you then fine, there's no law that says the Referee can't leave the field of play.

That said I personally don't care for the practice and typically avoid doing that. To make sure I keep everything in view (play, players, AR) without getting in the way I just take up a trail position a few yards inside the touch line. This way I'm out of the way if they throw it back to say a mid-fielder or defender coming up but I can still see everything from the thrower over to my AR.

I'll also say this, I can't think of anytime that I've seen a professional level (EPL, UEFA, FIFA, MLS) referee do this so I figure that's reason enough for me not to. But again, its about what works for you and allows you to best manage the game.

[o5iiawah]

I've seen plenty of referees do this. The reasons I've been told are they do it to stay out of the way of play and to keep the play and the AR in sight. I say if it works for you then fine, there's no law that says the Referee can't leave the field of play.

That said I personally don't care for the practice and typically avoid doing that. To make sure I keep everything in view (play, players, AR) without getting in the way I just take up a trail position a few yards inside the touch line. This way I'm out of the way if they throw it back to say a mid-fielder or defender coming up but I can still see everything from the thrower over to my AR.

I'll also say this, I can't think of anytime that I've seen a professional level (EPL, UEFA, FIFA, MLS) referee do this so I figure that's reason enough for me not to. But again, its about what works for you and allows you to best manage the game.

Thanks.

i remember being in my 8 class and the instructor had a diagram of a "lazy" ref's run versus the run of a ref who was on top of it.

The lazy ref was a diagonal slave and didn't deviate much from 20 yards either side of the circle whereas the active ref even left the pitch a few times to deal with instances in the corner. I guess thats where i picked it up...

[NHRef]

I do it occassionally, I can't seem to find a comfortable spot on some throwins, square or slight behind, but x yards onto the field I feel like I am in a good potential drop zone, or to far away, or at least into a quick passing lane. By getting off the field I am out of the way and have everything in front of me.

The one draw back is you might have to really fly to get out onto the field if the team does a long throwin. However with teams that can do this, I tend to not go off the field.

I have had discussions with assessors about this and the concern is being out of position after the throw.

[IASocFan]

I go to the touchline more with the younger kids and/or when I want a little more room on the touchline from either the parents or the subs side. I can move spectators back while I'm over there. I rarely do it with U19B, as I have enough trouble keeping up with them as it is.

In any case, it gives a different view of the field, and may help instill the thought in the players that "he's everywhere!"

[george parry]

I have a habit and im not sure if its a bad one, but whenever possible, I catch myself leaving the field of play on a throw in to be opposite my AR, keeping the ball between me and him/her. I never see any experienced refs do this, so i wonder if its a bad habit but its always helped me out. For one:

On an attacking throw, I position myself 6 yards upfield...90% of teams will throw in up the line. players crowd the line and stick boots and legs all over the place trying to play it first. Often, the player taking the throw will block the trailing ARs vision so they cant see if the ball has gone out, or if someone got a touch to it. Being right there in front of the players helps me make the right call

Also, I know with absolute certainty where the ball will go next. - Away from me. If it gets played towards me, i dont have to run and its another throw in. If im in the middle of the field, i may have to run towards the corner to track a play down but being off the field lets me be right on top of things.

anyone else use the other side of the touchline to their advantage? There's also less chance of being screened off a play.
nothing wrong with your positioning. always remember to take -up at the place you expect the most activity.

[flyfishhi]

I have a habit and im not sure if its a bad one, but whenever possible, I catch myself leaving the field of play on a throw in to be opposite my AR, keeping the ball between me and him/her. I never see any experienced refs do this, so i wonder if its a bad habit but its always helped me out. For one:

anyone else use the other side of the touchline to their advantage? There's also less chance of being screened off a play.

OK, I'm putting on my assessor hat to address this one.

I don't see it necessarily as "bad", but I don't think it is generally good. I too will very occasionally go off the touch line, but ONLY with U12 or maybe U14. For age groups above that, I'm never going there because this position almost guarantees I'm going to be way behind play in the next 2 or 3 seconds. My rationale is, for the U12's, ok they are probably just going to throw it down the line toward the corner and then manage to klunk it out for another throw or GK or CK. BUT the older groups are going to take it either to the corner and then immediately cross it in front of the goal or throw it in the middle and then immediately cross it in front of the goal or (worst case scenario) throw it to an opponent who immediately sends it across the field to the open area over the fullbacks (great, now I'm only 60 yards away on a full fledged counter attack!).

You want to anticipate where the next play is going to be and be able to see that play. With the older age groups, the next play is not along the touchline, it is in the middle of the field or in the PA. That's why you never (rarely) see experience referees off the touch, they know the ball isn't going to stay there long.

So the long answer is, it's not bad occasionally for reasons of varying your position and getting a different look. But on the average, you are going to be putting yourself in the wrong place for the next sequence and you are making more work for yourself and are going to miss some calls. I wouldn't recommend doing this "whenever possible" as you noted above.

[DWickham]

These are now considered "extreme" positions. In a terrific book by Evans & Bellion, the positions were viewed as the hallmark of a good referee (who moves to the the best position to see what will happen next). E&B noted that the reason to avoid these positions (the need to sprint back on a counterattack), could be resolved with fitness. Indeed, there was a time when an assessor might look for the use of an extreme position, and how well the referee got back into position.

Extreme positions are no longer looked on with favor. The reason against - what happens if there is a counterattack - - has argued for more prudence in positioning. With the incredible speed of play at the highest levels of the game, it probably makes sense there. IMO, taking extreme positions is a high reward, low risk activity with younger players. The referees can recover in case of a counterattack with a modest level of fitness, and the presence lends conviction: refeees in the best position to see what happens next are perceived to make the best calls. They are a tool of the thinking referee. For example, with a corner kick in the last minute of a close match, the losing team is going to throw everything into the goal mouth. The referee on the goal line may see better than someone at the top of the 18. For most of the match, however, the goal line may be the worst choice for positioning.

[o5iiawah]

Thanks to all. I think this is good advice for the u-littles where crowding is an issue but for higher games, I will stick to the middle of the pitch.

[USSF REF]

I would not recommend lining up directly with your AR. This prevents you from being able to see a different angle of view.

Imagine a circle. 360 degrees right? Now, there are two opposing players A and B positioned (for argument's sake) directly in between you and the AR.

The ball is being thrown in by team A to player A. If AR1 is at 0 degrees and you are at 180 deg. You either both have essentially the same view of the probable area of conflict, or no view of it at all.

If the two players are lined up side to side, directly in line with you and AR1 you will both be screened by the torsos of the two players to the inevitable pushing going on in between the two players. OTOH if the players are lined up with A in front of B you will both have a clear view of the probable area of conflict.

See these diagrams (x=location of foul)

R.......A x B.......AR1


.........A
R.......x.......AR1
.........B

In either case you have duplicated your angle of view and decreased the amount of information available to your crew.

If you're going to adopt a wider "extreme" position, you should ensure that you have varied viewing angles from your crew members.

Assuming you have good angles of view, then thinking about extreme positions is a risk vs. reward issue, as noted above. It is your job to decide if the risk of counter attack and loss of control in that event is greater than the reward of being in the extreme position. Factors that you should consider while making this decision are:
The age and speed of the players
The ability of the players to kick the ball far distances
The tactics and attacking strategy employed by the team already
Your own fitness and ability to recover from that position given the factors listed above.

[george parry]

You seem to have miss-understood my reply" position yourself where you get the best view of play". If you are incharge of an "open age" game,then things maybe different with the help of ASSISTANTS. I am also an "assessor, instructor and examiner" and have been since retireing from active refereeing in 1988. I did serve on the English Football League and proud to have been involved in International matches. So, if I can be of help to anyone please make contact. Regards George Parry.

[nsa]

Q: Where do you need to be?
A: You need to be where you are going to be needed. ;)

Sometimes play just takes me to that spot off the field. Sometimes I have to go there to get the parents off the line so that the players have the field to themselves.




i remember being in my 8 class and the instructor had a diagram of a "lazy" ref's run versus the run of a ref who was on top of it.

The lazy ref was a diagonal slave and didn't deviate much from 20 yards either side of the circle whereas the active ref even left the pitch a few times to deal with instances in the corner. I guess thats where i picked it up...

Dah-yum, I always thought the entire class was asleep by that point. :D

[blueboy]

You say the thrower blocks your AR's view - in my many years of refereeing, this has never happened to me. Where do your AR's stand? They should easily see where the ball goes, even if they lean over the line a little.

Being off the field is no longer supported by US Soccer and would certainly get you a stern talking to from any competent assessor.

[refontherun]

You say the thrower blocks your AR's view - in my many years of refereeing, this has never happened to me. Where do your AR's stand? They should easily see where the ball goes, even if they lean over the line a little.

Being off the field is no longer supported by US Soccer and would certainly get you a stern talking to from any competent assessor.

Smaller fields for U12 w/ARs and U10 without, I will find myself off the field quite a bit. With the one-man games, including adults, I will usually position myself either on or past the goal line on corner kicks and deep throw-ins. I want to be there to see if the ball crosses the goal line, not to mention a good view of what's happening in the PA in those situations. I undoubtedly picked that up from doing HS.

Sometimes, on a deep throw-in in a U14 or even U16 game, I will step off the field on the goal side of the thrower. It gives me good vision on my AR while still being able to keep an eye on stuff in and around the PA.

[IASocFan]

My favorite position on corner kicks is just off the far post where I can watch everything developing - particularly things like shielding the keeper from the ball! The only problem is when the ball quickly gets cleared to the other end, so I rarely use this technique with the stronger, faster players (of which there seem to be more and more of).

In fact, doing a 2 man freshman game, we discovered that one official on the far post and the trail official (moving if necessary) by the near corner of the PA gives a pretty good view of play.

[o5iiawah]

You say the thrower blocks your AR's view - in my many years of refereeing, this has never happened to me. Where do your AR's stand? They should easily see where the ball goes, even if they lean over the line a little.

Being off the field is no longer supported by US Soccer and would certainly get you a stern talking to from any competent assessor.

The AR the side where the throw is happening?
__AR1_____________________________________________________
__ .................................................... |....................................
....|..o..x...o...x.......o........................... 0....................................
__.|...............o....................................|....................................
______XOX_____X1_____________________AR2_____________________

..................CR
I know this looks woeful but imagine X1 tosses the ball up the line towards the "XOX" group of players. If he turns his back to AR2 and tosses it short, AR2 is not going to get a good view of any touch in/out of play

As of October, my USSF instructor advocated leaving the pitch if necessary. Is there a recent paper that argues against it?

I've got Disney this weekend and dont want to look like an idiot. Then again, I've also been complimented on occasion for being on top of play.

[DWickham]

In/out of touch rarely is the priority for the referee on a throw-in.

The positioning ought to be based on what the players are doing and where play/troubles will develop. In the typical case where it helps to be extreme, the player is throwing toward the referee's (coffin) corner where many are gathered. The referee can see the fouls in the corner, the corner/goal kick decision, and the fouls as the attacker moves toward goal. This will often happen when the winning team is taking the throw-in in their attacking third when the match is almost over.

But, what happens when the ball is crossed toward the penalty mark? The referee is 30 yards from the target! The risk/reward ratio usually pulls the referee nearer the corner of the PA during routine play. You'll find that positioning in the USSF Guide to Procedures diagrams. You won't find extreme positioning recommended.

The GToP, however, reminds that positioning is always based on where the AR can see play, see the other AR, and not be in the way.