VC Scenario -- restart location

[NHRef]

During state cup in the ref tent last weekend some of the youth refs where being "pop quizzed" about some things. One that raised my ebrow was this:

Play moves up field, you the CR, follow play. You see lead AR pop the flag so you blow the whistle, lead AR points behind you. You turn and see trail AR with flag up. Turns out, behind your back 1 defender punched another defender just inside the PA (yes punched his teammate). What happens now?

Everyone of the youth refs came up with the same answer: red card for VC, restart is a IFK. The debate, very small, came on the location, between where the ball was and where the punch was.

the debate was short lived due to who was saying what, but I was on the "other" side of him.

Without saying who said what, where is this restart? I was 100% sure, now just 99% :rolleyes:

[oneref]

Please refer to the Laws of the Game, page 119 (on the FIFA web site):If the ball is in play and a player commits an offence inside the field of play - against a team mate, play is restarted with an indirect free kick from the position where the offence occured (see Law 13 - Position of Free Kick)

[IASocFan]

According to LAW 12, IDF at the point of the offense.

Violent conduct against a teammate, while the ball is in play, on the field of play!

[Ref Flunkie]

Please refer to the Laws of the Game, page 119 (on the FIFA web site):If the ball is in play and a player commits an offence inside the field of play - against a team mate, play is restarted with an indirect free kick from the position where the offence occured (see Law 13 - Position of Free Kick)

Heh, I was going to say the restart is where the ball was. I failed the pop quiz :).

[intechpc]

Well oneref nailed the answer right out of the gates. IDFK at the spot of the offense. I will say I hope this never happens to me in a match. Can imagine with the relative lack of education on the LOTG on the part of coaches trying to explain to the coach of the Sent-off player that not only does he play a man down (and probably has an injured defender to boot) but the opponents get a free kick inside his penalty area as a result. Sheesh.

[jayhonk]

I will say I hope this never happens to me in a match. Can imagine with the relative lack of education on the LOTG on the part of coaches trying to explain to the coach of the Sent-off player that not only does he play a man down (and probably has an injured defender to boot) but the opponents get a free kick inside his penalty area as a result. Sheesh.

I hope it does happen to me so I can tell him where the restart is !!
Coaches never know where re-starts belong.

[oneref]

That's why you should always have your law book, makes for a real easy conversation, after the match.

[jkc313]

Assuming the ball was in play it's where the offense was.

[NHRef]

thanks guys, my "level of being sure" went from 100 to 99, now back to 100%

I did look it up in the book and found it under law 12, just wanted to triple check in case there was something I was missing.

[Rufusabc]

An easy way to remember this is.....if it was a punch by an opponent it would always be a DFK at the spot of the foul. That one is pretty easy to remember. (Keeper strikes attacker with ref's back turned in PA...AR flags it the result is a dfk in the PA....or as it is commonly known....PK.) So, the easy way to remember is it's an IFK becasue it's two teammates, but the restart is always at the spot of the foul.

Next hard one.....is there ever a restart that is not at the spot of the foul?

[IASocFan]

...Next hard one.....is there ever a restart that is not at the spot of the foul?

A PK is taken from the Penalty Spot - not normally the spot of the foul.

A foul by the attacking team in the Goal area can be taken anywhere in the GA.

An Indirect Kick for an infraction in the Goal Area gets moved back to the edge of the Goal Area.

Restarts caused by ball into touch, a goal, inadvertent whistle, misconduct off the field, or injury don't have an associated foul! ;)

[hradilv]

An easy way to remember this is.....if it was a punch by an opponent it would always be a DFK at the spot of the foul. That one is pretty easy to remember. (Keeper strikes attacker with ref's back turned in PA...AR flags it the result is a dfk in the PA....or as it is commonly known....PK.) So, the easy way to remember is it's an IFK becasue it's two teammates, but the restart is always at the spot of the foul.

Next hard one.....is there ever a restart that is not at the spot of the foul?

Besides an IFK in the goal area?
... and a PK, d'oh!

[jkc313]

An easy way to remember this is.....if it was a punch by an opponent it would always be a DFK at the spot of the foul. That one is pretty easy to remember. (Keeper strikes attacker with ref's back turned in PA...AR flags it the result is a dfk in the PA....or as it is commonly known....PK.) So, the easy way to remember is it's an IFK becasue it's two teammates, but the restart is always at the spot of the foul.


But also remember that the ball has to be in play even if it's two teammates. Technically, there can't be a foul if 2 teammates as fouls must be against opponents. the restart for the misconduct will be from the spot of misconduct but only if the misconduct is on the field of play and the ball is in play. Of course, it's still punished as VC with a send off and red card.

[glutenfreebaker]

Here's a similar question I've had regarding VC, only this time it is an opponent. Let's say Blue is working an attack on goal. Meanwhile, back at the ranch (or around midfield), a Green player punches a Blue player.

Here's all the things I'm thinking:

1. Play should be stopped for an offense of this nature instead of allowing advantage.

2. Play should restart at the spot of the foul.

3. Why am I taking the advantage of having the ball near the goal away from Blue and making them restart near midfield?

I hope I'm missing something. Is there a real answer to this that would be considered fair to the offended team?

I could think of a made up answer, like, "I stopped play because the Blue player that got punched was injured, so play restarts with a IFK to Blue where the ball was when I stopped play." Obviously this could work in a pinch, but only in games that have allow that restart for injuries, and I'd probably get my weenie whacked by somebody later.

Please help.

[NHRef]

You're in a catch-22 here:

- you have a probably fight so you need to stop
- if you stop, you take away an attack

You will have to think quick, can you risk the pending fight and let the pending attack go for a second or two or more, or even til the ball goes out of play? If so, go for it, swallow the whistle, and wait. If not, you are forced to stop play, deal with the VC/Send-off and re-start where the VC was.

If you get it wrong and don't stop and a fight breaks out, now you could be looking at VC/Send off on both teams.

[campbed]

1. Correct.
2. Correct.
3. Oh well...

Stop worrying about taking advantage away.

DO remember our PRIME DIRECTIVE, player safety! The world will survive the rest.

You won't be on the 6 O'clock news because you took away an advantage.

You WILL be on the 6 O'Clock news if playerA ends up in the hospital because the crazy referee allowed a fight to continue because they thought something called "an advantage" was more important. [Insert special guest Tommy Smith from Ireland to explain what Advantage is in soccer... ;-} ]

[doctorwhodds]

But also remember that the ball has to be in play even if it's two teammates. Technically, there can't be a foul if 2 teammates as fouls must be against opponents. the restart for the misconduct will be from the spot of misconduct but only if the misconduct is on the field of play and the ball is in play. Of course, it's still punished as VC with a send off and red card.

So, in this scenario, when the ball is out of play and then the teammate punches the teammate, the punishment is still for VC with a send off and red card, but the restart is what? Not affected by the card? IFK for the other team? The LOTG Interpretations for 2008-2009 say "If the ball is out of play, play is restarted according to the previous decision." Does that mean that if the ball goes over the touch line for a throw in, and then the teammate punch occurs, the restart, after the sending off, is a throw in?

[PVancouver]

Yes. It is whatever the restart would have been had there not been misconduct committed after the ball went out of play.

[rippingood]

So, ... Does that mean that if the ball goes over the touch line for a throw in, and then the teammate punch occurs, the restart, after the sending off, is a throw in?

yep.

'best' one is where blue team has PK. Two blue players fight over who takes kick - one or both are sent off (I saw (spectator) a version where one was sent off; can't say I wasn't hoping for a good brawl to see them down 2 men) and restart is still blue PK.