50-50 ball vs late contact, where's the line

[NHRef]

Had an interesting discussion this weekend with another ref.

Where exactly is the line where you call the foul, when it's a 50-50 ball, but one player gets the ball, and the other person's momentum carries them into the first player for a collision?

On one hand, it's 50-50 ball and they both have rights to it. On the other one person is late and ran into the person who won the ball.

Where do you, as the ref, draw the line on what to call and not call? Does the time in the game (first foul) or age/level matter?

[ref47]

age/skill level? how hard was the hit? did original player play through? was possession easily maintained - by player, by player's team? where on fop? temp of match? trifling? all the usual considerations for any call.

[intechpc]

I'd echo Ref47's comments and just add that it is the player's responsibility to realize he's not going to be first to the ball and adjust his challenge accordingly. I actually had a player in a match try to use the 50/50 ball excuse on me this weekend after he clattered into a keeper who had just caught the ball out of the air. He tried to tell me there was nothing he could do to which I simply pointed out to him that he needs to see that he's not going to get there first and needs to back off at that point.

[NHRef]

The play in question: U14G, first couple minutes of the match so "temperature" was hard to guage, would have been the first foul, so in my mind this adds to the "call it" argument, while the counter argument was "to late to pull out of the challenge" (which I disagreed with).

Looking for thoughts on how close to "same time" is close enough. Thanks for the input.

[Another NH Ref]

Watching with interest for how this discussion develops because I had the same situation in a U16G match on an adjacent field yesterday and opted to call it. It was the second foul I whistled but the match was still young and it's the one call I'm still turning over in my mind.

[falcon.7]

U-14B this weekend. Goalkeeper and forward are going for a lawnmower. Attacker gets there first, toe pokes it to the side and is promptly wrecked by the goalkeeper. PK. Goalkeeper says, "I'm not always going to get the ball". I said, "that's why it's a foul".

[Ref Flunkie]

IMO, this sounds like something I would call nearly all the time. If you don't win the ball and end up taking out the player that did win the ball, then it is a foul (more than likely). It isn't like we're discussing a card here. The only case (IMO) where it gets fuzzy is if the contact is clear shoulder to shoulder. In this case, I would use the same standards that I always do for shoulder charges.

[refontherun]

U-14B this weekend. Goalkeeper and forward are going for a lawnmower. Attacker gets there first, toe pokes it to the side and is promptly wrecked by the goalkeeper. PK. Goalkeeper says, "I'm not always going to get the ball". I said, "that's why it's a foul".

Adult Men last night. Ball coming into the GA left of the post. Keeper comes out and dives in low and hard. Virtually simultaneous contact with the ball; keeper and striker about two yards off the line. Stricker goes sprawling into the goal. Keeper comes up with it. "Keep going!"

[jayhonk]

On one hand, it's 50-50 ball and they both have rights to it. On the other one person is late and ran into the person who won the ball.

To me this one is easy. Foul. If you don't get the ball, it turns out is wasn't 50/50, and you got no rights to clobber the player who did get the ball. That is why I try to watch the feet and the ball as much as possible in these situations. Whoever touches the ball gains some vague and poorly defined rights.

I think much harder is a contested ball that one player kicks and the second player, lunging, touches second. Then they collide. Both are likely to be off-balance to different degrees, and maybe one goes down hard. That's where you earn all those dollars you get paid.

[intechpc]

In thinking on this more I think the easiest way to describe it is this, if the contact is more than trifling, it's a foul, period. Ref47's was a good list to describe things I'd take into account in the determination of if it's trifling or not.

[CDM76]

Wearing my player hat, I greatly appreciate the sentiment expressed here and hope those of you who let that one go start making the call.

I've taken some pretty nasty shots that don't get recognized as fouls from "slightly late" contact by opponents going after "50/50" balls that I've won. Talking deep muscle bruises that take weeks to heal.

Keep a close eye on players who come in late and lift a knee or lead with an elbow to "protect" themselves. That's at least reckless.

As with most players, if the referee isn't going to protect me...:mad:

[Sport Billy]

To me this one is easy. Foul. If you don't get the ball, it turns out is wasn't 50/50

Spot on -

50/50 = both players hit ball at same time.
If one player hits man and not ball, it's not a 50/50 - just a foul.