Can u still support a Scottish team without being religious? [Archive]

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toohyper

31 Mar 2004, 05:38 PM

Hi, i'm a South Korean living in the States. I get to watch EPL, SPL, K-League, etc. football games. I Been watching the Celtics for bout 3 years now. But do you really have to be a Catholic to be a Celtic fan? As a young boy, i use to go to Christianaity church, but these days, i don't go to church and i'm still a bit of a christianity, but not a big one. I enjoy watching the Celtics, heck i even have Mjallby's football jersey. I was wondering, do you really got to be religious in order to support a Scottish football club?

Scottish_Morton

31 Mar 2004, 05:59 PM

No, you really don't need to be religious! Most of them aren't! Many of them attatch themselves to the banner of protestants or catholics but will you see them in church on a sunday morning? Not a chance! Maybe if they were it would solve alot of problems!

Gordon EF

31 Mar 2004, 07:56 PM

toohyper, I have two problems with your post. One is that you assume that Celtic and Rangers ARE Scottish Football. Anybody who knows anything about football in this country knows that that is insulting and wrong.

The other is this ridiculous religion thing. Of course you don't have to be catholic to support Celtic. Do you think they ask to see your rosary at the gate?

I don't know one person who goes to church on a Sunday, never mind Old Firm fans.

Spurs draw a lot of jewish fans but it's not as though all Spurs fans are jewish, it's the same with Celtic.

toohyper

31 Mar 2004, 08:36 PM

No, ur right, the Celtics and the Gers are a Mexican Football...U happy now? :D :D

But I'm wondering, why are the Ranger fans so hating these days? I guess they still looking for there next "Ally McCoist", eh?

Holyjoe

31 Mar 2004, 11:31 PM

toohyper, what's your K-League team? I'm sure that could go a long way to determining your SPL side...

Seongnam = Rangers... dominant, buying their way to success
Ulsan = Celtic... always battling it out at the top of the league (their turn will come)
Suwon = Hearts... perennial 3rd best
Cheonbuk = Hibernian... good for the odd trophy or final now and again
Cheonnam = Motherwell... fairly innocuous club, and both play in yellow!
FC Seoul = Livingston... both Franchise FC
Pohang = Dundee United... used to be good, now a shadow of their former selves
Busan = Aberdeen... once a successful club in continental competition, now occupying the lower echelons (and coached by an ex-Aberdeen manager!)
Daejeon = Dunfermline... they reach a certain mid-table level but rarely exceed it
Bucheon = Dundee... money woes, in-fighting, chaos...

Daegu, Gwangju and Incheon are all relative newcomers so they can't really be classified!

toohyper

31 Mar 2004, 11:56 PM

Scottish_Morton

01 Apr 2004, 06:43 AM

Kwangju Sangmu Phoenix FC, gonna go with the city i was born in....

u could make that Ulsan to Celtic K-league to SPL comparison crap, but i been watching the Celtics for few years now...can't make me change my mind with that comparison man...

Gers fans are all jealous of Larsson and Hartson, they need to stop whining because they're not going to find another Ally McCoist...

I was trying to be fair to you mate but ********! You've been watchin 'the celtics' have you...interesting?! And your 'still a bit of a christianity'?! Rangers jealous?! I think this will only be celtic's 4th title in about 15 years! As for you and your choice of team, one word

GLORYHUNTER!!!

-cman-

01 Apr 2004, 10:03 AM

I'm tempted to bin this thread.

Look, toohyper I'm willing to give most newbies a pass on their ingorance of the finer points of Scottish (and regional) history -- of both the football and secular-political sorts. Part (a small part) of this board's function is to give fans a leg up on that context, which can be facinating. Lots of people have become interested in that stuff what with Celtic's recent success in Europe.

But your original post and responses smack of leading question/trollling. I'm going to give you the benefit of the boubt for now and chalk it up to genuine ignorance and English as a second langauge issues. But keep it cool. Check the stickied thread at the top for some good resources on background. That's why it's there.

Same goes for everyone else. Give the new guys a break.

Scottish_Morton

01 Apr 2004, 10:18 AM

I think i maybe should have been a tad more tactful with my last post...

Caesar

02 Apr 2004, 08:15 AM

Bin, bin, bin, bin!

TheFallen29

04 Apr 2004, 12:11 AM

Yeah, give the guy a break. English is a ridiculously hard language to learn as a second one....it's inconsistent and just generally dumb in a lot of ways (coming from someone going back to school to be an English teacher)...

Instead of binning the thread, why not use it as an opportunity to learn something new?

Toohyper:

How good is the K-League in general? Do the teams play an entertaining style? Do the same teams always win (like Celtic and the Scum, or Arsenal and the Scum)? How good is the league in comparison to...say....the J-League?

Parkhead_Faithful

04 Apr 2004, 12:45 AM

Many of them attatch themselves to the banner of protestants or catholics but will you see them in church on a sunday morning? Not a chance!

Im catholic, raised catholic in a catholic family with a proddy dad, went to a catholic primary school,went to a catholic high school,went to pineapple itself till i was 16, hardly been since, ive been a celtic supporter since I was 4,been regularly since, does that mean im not a real catholic in your opinion oh wise one?

Holyjoe

04 Apr 2004, 01:34 AM

How good is the K-League in general? Do the teams play an entertaining style? Do the same teams always win (like Celtic and the Scum, or Arsenal and the Scum)? How good is the league in comparison to...say....the J-League?

The championship has been won by Seongnam for the past three years, and in 2003 and 2002 the same three sides finished first, second and third.
The new season started yesterday and Seongnam lost to the army team Gwangju, so things might turn out to be a bit different this year.

It's always hard to judge the standard of leagues against each other (and there's a big thread in the Asia & Middle East section about this), however it's generally thought that the K-League has a better standard of football though the J-League has the better infastructure. Korean clubs are more successful in Continental competitions than their Japanese counterparts.

TheFallen29

04 Apr 2004, 04:39 AM

however it's generally thought that the K-League has a better standard of football though the J-League has the better infastructure. Korean clubs are more successful in Continental competitions than their Japanese counterparts.

Damn...it only took one post for me to learn something I didn't expect! :)

I would have bet money that Japan's league was better, mainly due to the fact that I have seen some press on it, and can actually name some of the sides (Grampus Eight, Urawa Reds, FC Tokyo, etc)...

Then again, on second thought, your league has to be good to produce a national side like South Korea had at the World Cup. They were certainly fun to watch -- very disciplined, could run all day, and had some pretty good skills on and off the ball. Oh, and Lee Woon-Jae (did I get that right?) was one of the better goalkeepers in the tournament, too.

Scottish_Morton

04 Apr 2004, 05:54 AM

Im catholic, raised catholic in a catholic family with a proddy dad, went to a catholic primary school,went to a catholic high school,went to pineapple itself till i was 16, hardly been since, ive been a celtic supporter since I was 4,been regularly since, does that mean im not a real catholic in your opinion oh wise one?

This means you have a roman catholic upbringing, as do many other celtic fans. To be a real Roman Catholic now you have to live your life as one, in submission to God and the scriptures (and to the other rules the roman catholic church and the vatican make up i.e. all the non-scriptural sacraments). I won't make a judgement on whether you are or not because i don't know you. I'm sure that's between you and God.

Holyjoe

04 Apr 2004, 11:48 AM

I would have bet money that Japan's league was better, mainly due to the fact that I have seen some press on it, and can actually name some of the sides (Grampus Eight, Urawa Reds, FC Tokyo, etc)...

Yep, the Japanese league is streets ahead on the infastructure side of things, such as stadia, coaching and training facilities, as well as the JFA being on the ball in terms of marketing and promotion of the league. I used to think the Scottish Football Association were the embodiment of total footballing incompetence but the Korean FA and the K-League officials have since won that hands down.
The K-League is starting to attract some decent players (Southampton captain Chris Marsden just joined Busan, and former Aston Villa defender Alpay has joined Incheon), and it's expanding in size - 13 professional teams in the league now compared to 10 in 2002 and the initial 5 sides when the league was launched in 1983. They've gone backwards this year though by reimplementing the gimmicky two-stage season that they'd got rid of a few years ago so they're still not getting everything right.

You're right about Lee Woon-Jae, he's a cracking keeper and plays for my K-League team Suwon. I'm surprised that no European clubs have come in for him, or perhaps they did and he just wasn't interested in leaving Korea. He would be a definite solution for Celtic's goalkeeping position (though I'd much rather see him at Aberdeen :) )

prk166

04 Apr 2004, 12:06 PM

I would recomend against supporting anything Scottish! **smirk**

How about Livingston? They don't have a lot of baggage to come with them given their history as a tiny club until recently.

TheFallen29

04 Apr 2004, 03:46 PM

Holyjoe:

David Marshall will be just fine, if and when Rab Douglas actually loses the job (I'm actually a big Douglas supporter myself).

Anyway, it can't be a money issue for the KFA, can it? I would imagine that considering how much excitement there was for the World Cup, at least some of that has to translate to the domestic league, right?

Unfortunately, I think there's a kind of distrust towards Asian players from the rest of the world still. It certainly didn't help that Hidetoshi Nakata and Junichi Inamoto didn't really live up to expectations.

Holyjoe

05 Apr 2004, 01:14 AM

For most of the teams, money is not really an issue - they're mostly owned by big corporations: Suwon Bluewings (Samsung), Busan I'cons (Hyundai), FC Seoul (LG), Cheonbuk Motors (Hyundai), Seongnam Chunma (Ilhwa, connected to the Moonies Unification church) etc... the corporations make up any operating shortfall.

The KFA however completely missed the boat regarding capitalising on the World Cup. They really are a bunch of useless, self-serving muppets - I know several sports journalists/editors who work out here and they've said that the KFA and K-league officials are the most useless group of gits they've ever had to deal with.
There is a small hardcore of fans here, but because the Korean Baseball Organisation and the Korean Basketball League are really on the ball in terms of marketing and promoting their sports, both baseball and basketball outstrip domestic football in terms of popularity. Folk will turn up for the national team games, but the K-league is reasonably poorly attended. The 2003 season average was 9,064
Busan I'cons were the biggest offenders - it's the second biggest city in Korea with around 4.5m inhabitants yet their average crowd was 2,752... and they have a 55,000 seater stadium!

Attendances are probably in general on a par with SPL ones, though the most you'll pay for a ticket out here is a fiver, plus you can drink at the stadium.
If only Scotland would get in line with that! :)

Caesar

05 Apr 2004, 08:10 AM