make the call

[keeper508]

confusion it front of goal, keeper out by the 18 still in box the ball is cleared from just outside the goal mouth by defending team player and the keeper catches the ball whats the call ? and if a hand ball by keeper then were is the ball placed for free kick ,is it direct or indirect?


also player on break away keeper attacks and miss handles the ball the ball is now loose and attacking player is still up but keeper is down is this offsides keeper did touch the ball?

[DadOf6]

confusion it front of goal, keeper out by the 18 still in box the ball is cleared from just outside the goal mouth by defending team player and the keeper catches the ball whats the call ? and if a hand ball by keeper then were is the ball placed for free kick ,is it direct or indirect?

If the only questionable action was the 'keeper catching the ball then no possible call will result in a penalty kick.

If the ball was outside of the penalty area (the ball completely crossed the plane defined by the outside edge of the penalty area lines) when it was caught then NO MATTER WHAT a direct free kick should be awarded from the spot where the ball was when it was caught.

The other possible call would be for the 'keeper handling a ball deliberately kicked to him by a teammate. This would result in an indirect free kick from the spot (inside the penalty area) where the ball was handled. This is a "you had to be there" situation. In most cases I doubt anything should be called but I can certainly imagine (non-contrived) situations where calling the infraction would be correct.

also player on break away keeper attacks and miss handles the ball the ball is now loose and attacking player is still up but keeper is down is this offsides keeper did touch the ball?

Since you did not state how the attacker received the ball I cannot fully answer your question. Did he steal the ball from an opponent and then break away? Did he receive the ball directly from a throw-in? A goal kick? A corner kick (unlikely given your description)? A pass from a teammate?

Offside position was determined when the ball was last touched by a teammate of the attacker.

I can say that if the attacker was carrying the ball, the 'keeper touched the ball, and then the attacker regained the ball then the offside determination does not change.

Assuming the referee team is competent then the fact that offside was not called when the attacker first touched the ball suggests that offside should not be called in your scenario.

[keeper508]

okay first ? the ball was about to go into the net for a goal and the defender cleared the ball then the keeper handeled the ball inside the 18 a penalty kick was rewarded and resulted in a goal is this the correct call?

second ? attacker recieved the ball onsides and brook away from defender keeper attacked and touched ball the ball is now loose and ref calls offsides on the attacker who had breakaway is that the right call

[Gary V]

okay first ? the ball was about to go into the net for a goal and the defender cleared the ball then the keeper handeled the ball inside the 18 a penalty kick was rewarded and resulted in a goal is this the correct call?No. As noted, a penalty kick can never be awarded against a goalkeeper. It might have been an indirect free kick, but it sounds doubtful whether the ball was deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper.

second ? attacker recieved the ball onsides and brook away from defender keeper attacked and touched ball the ball is now loose and ref calls offsides on the attacker who had breakaway is that the right callNo. A player cannot be offside from himself. It takes a teammate's touch of the ball to evaluate offside position and involvement in play.

[DadOf6]

okay first ? The ball was about to go into the net for a goal and the defender cleared the ball then the keeper handeled the ball inside the 18 a penalty kick was rewarded and resulted in a goal is this the correct call?

no.

second ? Attacker recieved the ball onsides and brook away from defender keeper attacked and touched ball the ball is now loose and ref calls offsides on the attacker who had breakaway is that the right call

no.

[o5iiawah]

As I try to understand the question..


lets say the keeper rushes out to try and punch, misses and finds himself at the top of the PA near the Pen arc. There's a goalmouth scramble and a defender clears the ball out but the keeper turns around and snatches the ball out of the air.

This is similar in interpretation to the laymans' term of "Backpass" and there's probably another 100 post thread about whether it was intentional. I'd probably determine that the defender did not intend to play the ball deliberately and hurriedly cleared it out, therefore the keepers handling was not an infraction. If it were, it would be an IFK at the spot of where the handling offense occured.

If the attacking player was onside, he remains onside.
If he is offside, you blow for it.

a player does not become offside/onside through the touching of a defender.

[Sport Billy]

okay first ? the ball was about to go into the net for a goal and the defender cleared the ball then the keeper handeled the ball inside the 18 a penalty kick was rewarded and resulted in a goal is this the correct call?

second ? attacker recieved the ball onsides and brook away from defender keeper attacked and touched ball the ball is now loose and ref calls offsides on the attacker who had breakaway is that the right call

Report the official - he should not be officiating. ;)

[Iforgotwhat8wasfor]

Sometimes you will see a play where there is a shot on goal, the keeper fumbles the ball, another attacker collects it, and is immediately called for offside. The second attacker was alway in offside position, but a good referee will let the shot resolve and the keeper collect the ball, rather than stop play. Observors often confuse the situation...

[jkc313]

okay first ? the ball was about to go into the net for a goal and the defender cleared the ball then the keeper handeled the ball inside the 18 a penalty kick was rewarded and resulted in a goal is this the correct call?

second ? attacker recieved the ball onsides and brook away from defender keeper attacked and touched ball the ball is now loose and ref calls offsides on the attacker who had breakaway is that the right call

There can NEVER EVER be a penalty kick awarded for ANY keeper handling violation. Period. What you are asking is did the defender deliberately kick the ball to the keeper who then handled it. In my opinion the kick was misdirected and the keeper would be allowed to handle it. If, in the opinion of the referee, this was a deliberate kick to the keeper and the keeper illegally handled it, the restart is an IDFK as the keeper was inside his penalty area. Had the keeper been outside his penalty area, the restart would be a DFK bot NEVER a PK

From what you describe the offside would have to have been before the attacker shot at the keeper because the keeper blocking a shot on goal and deflecting the ball back to the shooter can never be judged as offside.

[imasyko]

I recently read a FIFA directive that stated that the 'backpass' to the GK need not be intentional, only that the defender was in control and passed/kicked the ball that the GK picked up.

I hope that's right, because I made that call in a game last weekend. The defender attempted to play the ball over the end line from just inside the 18, but due to the length of the grass, etc., the ball never got there. The GK picked it up and I blew the whistle.

[hradilv]

I recently read a FIFA directive that stated that the 'backpass' to the GK need not be intentional, only that the defender was in control and passed/kicked the ball that the GK picked up.

I hope that's right, because I made that call in a game last weekend. The defender attempted to play the ball over the end line from just inside the 18, but due to the length of the grass, etc., the ball never got there. The GK picked it up and I blew the whistle.

Good call from your description. I had a similar call in a game Saturday.

[ref47]

we get so accustomed to keeper handling violations during the run of play that i almost missed calling one last night. ball is out of play for a goal kick. keeper gets the ball and throws it to a teammate who takes the gk. keeper is near the goal line just outside of the pa. gk is to the keeper who dribbles the ball back into the pa and picks it up and punts it down field. i turn to follow the ball and the lightbulb turns on - hey, that was a handling violation! whistle and direct the ball be returned to the pa where the keeper handled it. many players are looking at me, puzzled. i say, "handling violation, indirect." and on we continue.

[jayhonk]

we get so accustomed to keeper handling violations during the run of play that i almost missed calling one last night. ball is out of play for a goal kick. keeper gets the ball and throws it to a teammate who takes the gk. keeper is near the goal line just outside of the pa. gk is to the keeper who dribbles the ball back into the pa and picks it up and punts it down field. i turn to follow the ball and the lightbulb turns on - hey, that was a handling violation! whistle and direct the ball be returned to the pa where the keeper handled it. many players are looking at me, puzzled. i say, "handling violation, indirect." and on we continue.

I think your sales job would be easier by calling it "Pass Back violation".
(Keepers can't handle, and handling is DFK.)

What is it really called?

[hradilv]

I think your sales job would be easier by calling it "Pass Back violation".
(Keepers can't handle, and handling is DFK.)

What is it really called?

How about - "illegal touch with hands" or ITWH?

[meyers]

I recently read a FIFA directive that stated that the 'backpass' to the GK need not be intentional, only that the defender was in control and passed/kicked the ball that the GK picked up.

I hope that's right, because I made that call in a game last weekend. The defender attempted to play the ball over the end line from just inside the 18, but due to the length of the grass, etc., the ball never got there. The GK picked it up and I blew the whistle.

Yes, can't believe no one else has jumped in on this. There was a thread about a mile long on this awhile back.

Definitely a "pass-back" violation (as described), and should have been a IDK. (Definitely not a PK)

Still running into refs who have not heard this at all. Actually, I have never run into a ref who has heard of this directive/whitepaper/memo. Stuff like this should be covered during recert. I brought it up at my recert and the instructor really wasn't aware of it.

[AlsoRan]

I recently read a FIFA directive that stated that the 'backpass' to the GK need not be intentional, only that the defender was in control and passed/kicked the ball that the GK picked up.


I believe that you are referring to a USSF Position Paper, not to a FIFA directive.
http://images.ussoccer.com/Documents/cms/ussf/PassBack_Violation.pdf

[jkc313]

I believe that you are referring to a USSF Position Paper, not to a FIFA directive.
http://images.ussoccer.com/Documents/cms/ussf/PassBack_Violation.pdf
USSF is quite clear that a ball even if deliberately kicked is miskicked or misdirected the keeper is free to handle it (and ,yes, the keeper handling the ball inside his own penalty area illegally IS a handling violation). A recent question came up where a sweeper tried to clear the ball out of the penalty area and over the goal line. The ball did not have enough force to clear it and the keeper ran and picked up the deliberately kicked. Quite a few higher ups say the ball was miskicked and the keeper free to handle it. SO do I

[imasyko]

That's exactly the situation I had, but when I read the position paper from the USSF, I feel I made the correct call in blowing for the IDK.

I suppose the decision rests on whether you consider a kick that is struck deliberately, but lacking in the proper force, to be a mis-kick? I'm not sure I do - since the defender would have had control and the time to play the kick the way he wanted. The fact that he didn't execute, does not constitute a mis-kick, IMO.

[intechpc]

USSF is quite clear that a ball even if deliberately kicked is miskicked or misdirected the keeper is free to handle it (and ,yes, the keeper handling the ball inside his own penalty area illegally IS a handling violation). A recent question came up where a sweeper tried to clear the ball out of the penalty area and over the goal line. The ball did not have enough force to clear it and the keeper ran and picked up the deliberately kicked. Quite a few higher ups say the ball was miskicked and the keeper free to handle it. SO do I

Um excuse me but are you reading the same document I am. Nowhere does it say that the keeper is free to handle a ball that was mis-kicked or mis-directed. The closest it comes is that it says it must be a deliberate kick not a deflection or accidental mis-direction (this is not the same as an inaccurate pass such as you suggest). In fact it even goes on to state that the ball need not be played "to" the keeper in order for the illegal touch to have occurred.

Based on the definition of deliberate used in guidance from USSF for offside purposes, deliberate only means that the player made a specific action to play the ball as opposed to the ball simply deflecting off the player.

So based on this, if a player attempts to play the ball over the goal line and doesn't give it enough gas, it is NOT legal for the keeper to pick if up with his hands. It's a deliberate play, he deliberately played it to the goal line. Just because he didn't play it well enough, doesn't mean it wasn't deliberate. Remember that USSF makes a very important distinction between deliberate and intentional.

[hradilv]

Um excuse me but are you reading the same document I am. Nowhere does it say that the keeper is free to handle a ball that was mis-kicked or mis-directed.

Phew! That's what I thought I read, too. I thought maybe I missed something...