Another "Groundhog Day" (Year)

[usscouse]

Despite my poor attempts at humour and my undying support of "the" team. I have this sinking feeling that next season will start just like this one did.
Sort of Groundhog Day in footy.
All of us saying "Well another UAFA Cup wouldn't go amiss." and "Let's aim for the top 4 this time around......."

We really do have to plan on winning the next 8 matches. That includes United , the Gunners (and anyone else who would like to score a late goal against us.) Any one of the combo. we could do, but 8 might be a stretch

I'm not totally optimistic :(

[Twenty26Six]

I think we can attain fourth. It's quite simple... we have to. Next month I am getting the Liverbird tattoo'd on my chest[over heart]. Although that involves shaving chest hair to get a picture of a bird[chicken to my non-footy friends] I can't wait. Despite our somewhat **********e season and wavering form, I am eternally optimistic.

I have been reading 'Faith of Our Fathers' periodically over the last month or so. The one thing from it that has stuck with me is how Alan Edge talks about devotion. How when Liverpool were only a second division side, and how Reds' fans caught so much flack and criticism. He talked about how easy it would have been just to become an Evertonian, or maybe support another team. Instead he stuck it through and was in the truest sense a fan. Out of those dark second division days came the greatest dynasty ever in professional football. I will remain eternally devoted to my LFC, even though I may never get to see a league game live.

Liverpool is synonymous with excellence, but not because of the silverware. It is because LFC embodies the true spirit of football, and it's fans are unwavering in their support.

Liiii-ver-pool.

[usscouse]

I have been reading 'Faith of Our Fathers' periodically over the last month or so. The one thing from it that has stuck with me is how Alan Edge talks about devotion. How when Liverpool were only a second division side, and how Reds' fans caught so much flack and criticism. He talked about how easy it would have been just to become an Evertonian, or maybe support another team. Instead he stuck it through and was in the truest sense a fan. Out of those dark second division days came the greatest dynasty ever in professional football. I will remain eternally devoted to my LFC, even though I may never get to see a league game live.
Liiii-ver-pool.I have Alan's book at home and came attest to the truth in what he wrote. He's probably a couple of years "younger" than me so you can read all his experiences as mine also. I was on the Kop every 2nd Saturday when they we're in Div. 2. and on through the "Better" years.
Like I said the team have my undying support.

Liverbird tattoo.....hmmm. Good for you.

No reason why you won't see a live game at Anfield, save your pennies sonny...:)

[655321]

Let me take an opportunity here to get something off my chest that has really been bothering me recently...this won't be very eloquent, but hopefully my point will get across.

Simply pointing out that the team isn't good enough right now and disscussing that perhaps Houllier should be given another option of employment other than manager is NOT being an unloyal fan. It has nothing to do with "switching" over to Everton or a more successful club. It's called caring about what happens, and just discussing it...it has nothing to do with "not supporting". NOW...booing the team on the pitch and writing disgusting threats on the wall of the complexes and calling into radio shows and saying that "I could manage the team better", etc, etc, etc...is definitely not the Liverpool way. But it seems that whenever someone mentions the fact that we're massively underachieving, don't seem to be getting much better, and how they don't think next season will see an upswing, someone comes out with good ol'day syndrome about how back then people didn't complain and we were loyal, and we cared and weren't glory hunters and all that. Well, guess what?? We're here saying this because people do care and they are loyal and they want to see a team achieve to it's greatest. When you're in the stadium, cheer, support the team and try to lift them. But there's no harm in discussing things and being a bit negative from time to time, because things haven't been great recently and eventually they have to be faced and talked about. We're all fans or we wouldn't be here, no?? So, can we drop the "true fan" stuff whenever someone points out the fact that the team doesn't perform half as well as it should when viewed on paper??

Sorry, rant over.

BTW...I'm from Texas and have never been to Anfield, so I know it's pretty high and mighty of me to even take on the "true fan" subject, I know. But I've gone through this same thing with other sports teams (remember what happened when all of Dallas "stuck behind" Tom Landry and how pissed they were when Jerry Jones fired him??).

[Matt Clark]

I think you're missing the point slightly, Six.

The discourse going on amongst Liverpool fans at the moment about the nature of their club's support (it's not just on here, believe me, it's the hot topic everywhere) does not have as it's starting point a distinction between "types of fans". It is not an attempt to align criticism with disloyalty, any more than it is to align blind faith with "proper fandom".

But the changing nature of the support IS central to the debate. Without a hint of myopia, those of us that have been there, people like myself and USScouse and KopiteinKC and whoever, can say that back in the day there was an essential element of humour and perspective that, increasingly, is going missing. And that grieves some of us.

But don't for one second think that has anything to do with complaining or moaning about the team! Good God no! :D You know what - one of my earlier consistent memories of going to Anfield is the way in which LOADS of people used to give Jocky Hansen stick in his early days. "Bamby" they called him. Or "f'in liability", as often as not. I remember he got sent off in one of his earlier games (a Cup game against Ipswich, I think, although I'm not sure about that) and for ages every pub pundit was telling you how everything's gone to crap and how that young eejit was never going to replace the lates and the greats of the team that passed into history at the end of the 70's and early 1980's.

Likewise Rush - imagine this, if you will: there was a time when Bob Paisley used to get stick for playing the skinny little runt instead of giving Howard Gayle a chance!

Anyway ... without descending into the misty-eyed reverie you speak out against, be assured that comments on the moaning are

a) restricted to the idiots that make it their business to be wilfully, unintelligently negative about the club and, in so doing desparage he club and it's fanbase and

b) a recognition that times are changing. The death of the Kop and, to a very large extent, of football as a working class pursuit has more to do with that than people venting about things that clearly are dear to them on the Internet.

We're fortunate in this little corner of Bigsoccer to have a bunch of insightful, committed Reds and no one is going to take issue with the sort of critique (for I would call it that, rather than criticism) posted here.

[655321]

Well, your ability to get your point across is much better than mine. And I completely agree, and certainly don't mean to speak out against misty-eyed reverie. As a long time fan of many different sports, I appreciate it as much as the next guy.

I suppose as long as LFC and other teams chase the world market, the days of the Kop and "true" fandom will only be alive in those who were there or had it instilled in them by people who were. I just hate to see honest criticism (which is needed) answered with "misty eyed reverie" (also needed).

[Twenty26Six]

Ok, I didn't mean to be a "misty-eyed" whatever.

I saw usscouse's post and thought about my own dismal views of LFC right now. I thought about how much frustration I have had and then I realized it could be worse. We could be in relegation or second division. In fact, I thought about "FooF" and realized it was worse, much worse. And... even when things were most dismal, people were proud to be fans of Liverpool Football Club. Now in today's global community, it seems odd that a kid from Buffalo would get a Liverbird tattoo. The fact is it doesn't matter where I am from, whether it be Alaska or Anfield, I support one team. Not because it is fashionable, not because they are the best right now. It's because at my earliest years of being introduced to football I was exposed to LFC and it struck a chord with me. I didn't know about the history at the time. My earliest memories were Macca, Fowler and Ince. Robbie and the whole dockers t-shirt thing. I loved it all. I was magnetically drawn to it, and it wasn't until many years later that I was able to learn about LFC history.

Now my post wasn't meant to be a criticism of people. It was meant to state that things could be worse and no matter what transpires I am always proud to support the club. That's in no way different that Matt Clark's post on support from before.

Now my knowledge of things past are sketchy. I didn't get much television exposure to the Premiership until a few years back and I try to absorb all I can as far as events. That however doesn't mean I don't know my GD football. The football we have played the majority of the last two years is crap. Houllier in my opinion is not leading us to the league title, but I feel he has earned a club office position or at least an amicable dismissal. I also have many interesting views on Michael Owen. If you ask me you'd hear them.

I understand everyone's frustration with all the expectations we have. But fifth place is not the end of the world, and I'll be a supporter even if we have Peter Reid as coach next year. The post was only about my opinion and feeling. If it pushed anyones buttons... that's just too GD bad.

[655321]

Ok, I didn't mean to be a "misty-eyed" whatever.

I saw usscouse's post and thought about my own dismal views of LFC right now. I thought about how much frustration I have had and then I realized it could be worse. We could be in relegation or second division. In fact, I thought about "FooF" and realized it was worse, much worse. And... even when things were most dismal, people were proud to be fans of Liverpool Football Club. Now in today's global community, it seems odd that a kid from Buffalo would get a Liverbird tattoo. The fact is it doesn't matter where I am from, whether it be Alaska or Anfield, I support one team. Not because it is fashionable, not because they are the best right now. It's because at my earliest years of being introduced to football I was exposed to LFC and it struck a chord with me. I didn't know about the history at the time. My earliest memories were Macca, Fowler and Ince. Robbie and the whole dockers t-shirt thing. I loved it all. I was magnetically drawn to it, and it wasn't until many years later that I was able to learn about LFC history.

Now my post wasn't meant to be a criticism of people. It was meant to state that things could be worse and no matter what transpires I am always proud to support the club. That's in no way different that Matt Clark's post on support from before.

Now my knowledge of things past are sketchy. I didn't get much television exposure to the Premiership until a few years back and I try to absorb all I can as far as events. That however doesn't mean I don't know my GD football. The football we have played the majority of the last two years is crap. Houllier in my opinion is not leading us to the league title, but I feel he has earned a club office position or at least an amicable dismissal. I also have many interesting views on Michael Owen. If you ask me you'd hear them.

I understand everyone's frustration with all the expectations we have. But fifth place is not the end of the world, and I'll be a supporter even if we have Peter Reid as coach next year. The post was only about my opinion and feeling. If it pushed anyones buttons... that's just too GD bad.

Ditto...

I also have Faith Of Our Fathers, and skimming back through it from time to time reminds of why I was attracted to this club six or so years ago when I first found FSW on my newly purchased cable system. It's a wonderful book and everyone with even a passing interest in LFC should run to the bookstore and buy it.

[usscouse]

[QUOTE=Matt Clark]

QUOTE]Exactly right Matt.
We had a saying over here in the US, and probably still do.
"America, love it or leave it"
a really shortsighted ideal at best. Times change, ideals change and people have to adapt to reality.

"The death of the Kop and, to a very large extent, of football as a working class pursuit" This probably tells more about changes in Liverpool.

When old farts like me were coming to the game, a good portion of Liverpool’s work force where in the 11 miles of shipyards in one capacity or another, Most of the rest where out sailing those ships. It was a blue collar city and the football grounds reflected that. A way to yell away the 49 hour work week’s frustrations.

The workforce and the Kop have both gone. Nowadays the football ground are for family entertainment, kids, free balloons and mascots (shudder) I think the one remaining dock is a museum. The city, the country and the worlds attitudes have changed and not always for the better but we adapt.

We're now are the immediate gratification generation. If something is wrong we don’t fix it, we throw it out and get another, newer, bigger but not necessarily better thing. That’s why I don’t carry on about GH. So I’d prefer to try and fix our problems first,

We do right have to question what is going on with the club and sometime we have to admit, hard as it is. That they may have a better idea of how things are really going.

I don’t have any control over that so my answer is humour…… and a touch of sarcasm.

Bastardshttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/Cartangry.gif

[ScouseCat]

The good thing about our position at the moment is that we are in control of our own destiny. We don't have to rely on other sides losing to get into 4th spot. We have 8 games left and if we can get enough points from those games, we can finish 4th and qualify for the all important Champions League spot for next season. I believe we can achieve this, as I'm sure do the players, manager and coaching staff.