Racism and Referees

[o5iiawah]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=645693&sec=england&cc=5901

FIFA has given referees the power to stop matches and remove players from the pitch if there is visible signs of racism

Now, all thats left is to have FIFA deduct 3 points for world cup qualifying if there is racism that goes on unpunished at stadia.

[PVancouver]

Don't confuse UEFA with FIFA.

UEFA General Secretary David Taylor said: "We have been working on this idea for a long time now and the time has come to allow the referee to stop, suspend, or abandon the match because of outside interference of any kind.

is kind of an odd statement because the LOTG state that the referee:

"stops, suspends or abandons the match because of outside interference of any kind"

[Gary V]

UEFA is quoting the authorization they have to institute this. They are not creating a new Law; they will be telling referees that they expect the referee to follow the existing Law. Racist chants and such from the crowd will be considered to be outside influence. I applaud them for this, because let's face it, no matter how thick a skin you have, comments do affect you.

[jkc313]

I guess the only thing I'd say is that if ANY comments/actions by fans are threatening to any of the players or are such that they are affecting play, the referee should stop the game for the safety of the players. It shouldn't just be a racial issue.

[Sport Billy]

I disagree with this entirely.

Words from the crowd cannot threaten the safety of a player.
It may affect their play, but they're professionals - they should be able to deal with it.

But my problem is that I do not think it is a good idea to allow fans chants to determine whether a game is to continue.

If my best player is out, I starting racist chants from the very beginning. If they move the match long enough for him to get healthy, it's worth it. Likewise, if your team is down by a lot, do the same thing.

By rule, abandon matches must be replayed.

Any punishment FIFA will dish-out: playing behind closed doors, fines, etc will be less than my team will earn if a replay allows them to stay in the CL or UEFA Cup.

[o5iiawah]

I disagree with this entirely.

Words from the crowd cannot threaten the safety of a player.
It may affect their play, but they're professionals - they should be able to deal with it.

But my problem is that I do not think it is a good idea to allow fans chants to determine whether a game is to continue.

If my best player is out, I starting racist chants from the very beginning. If they move the match long enough for him to get healthy, it's worth it. Likewise, if your team is down by a lot, do the same thing.

By rule, abandon matches must be replayed.

Any punishment FIFA will dish-out: playing behind closed doors, fines, etc will be less than my team will earn if a replay allows them to stay in the CL or UEFA Cup.

Where to start...Flying bananas, batteries and flares usually accompany racism. It has no place in football. no player should have to take a corner with the fans making gorilla noises at them, or hissing like the gas of a death camp.

you can make racist chants all you want..if UEFA or FIFA actually enforced anti-racist measures, then clubs would be on a razors edge to curb racism.

Ideally, if a pocket of fans cause trouble, the referee stops the match for 10 minutes so the troublemakers can be escorted out. Then they issue a public apology and the administrators are happy.

Fifa/Uefa threatens that if it happens again, your club will not be invited to any continental competition and your country will be docked 3 points for WCQ. Then the FA of your country wakes up, realizes what is at stake and puts pressure on the club to curb it. The club will miss gate money, and the FA will miss the money your national team will bring back to it.

Then, when you make racist chants at the next game, you're met in the face with a police baton and thats that.

[IASocFan]

I agree with o5iiawah!

I don't see any of the upside to racism chanting that Sport Billy sees.

If they (the referees and UEFA) do it right, it should eliminate group problems. You may still see/hear some idiot, but it won't diminish the game or be tolerated for long.

Any fines will probably be more than anticipated revenue. Any scoring advantage by offended sides will probably be allowed to stand.

[DadOf6]

I agree with o5iiawah!

I don't see any of the upside to racism chanting that Sport Billy sees.

If they (the referees and UEFA) do it right, it should eliminate group problems. You may still see/hear some idiot, but it won't diminish the game or be tolerated for long.

Any fines will probably be more than anticipated revenue. Any scoring advantage by offended sides will probably be allowed to stand.

I also agree with o5iiawah.

I like the idea of a "crowd caution" and a "crowd send off."

If the referee feels it is needed he can stop the game and notify the home team's representative who will then cause an announcement to be broadcast.

The second time a stronger announcement is made and the home team plays down a man (thus the term "crowd send off"). The visiting coach chooses who is "sent off." As with a regular send off there is a "one game suspension." Fiive minutes before the start of the next game the opposing coach will strike one player off of the team's lineup. The team does not have to play down a man.

If the game is stopped the visiting team can choose: a forfeit win, accept the game as it stands, resume the game after the stadium is cleared, replay the game. Some of the choices are odd but with tie breakers they may make sense in certain situations.

I like this because the crowd that is responsible is punished at that game. It will also encourage the fans to police themselves.

[Sport Billy]

I agree with o5iiawah!

I don't see any of the upside to racism chanting that Sport Billy sees.

If they (the referees and UEFA) do it right, it should eliminate group problems. You may still see/hear some idiot, but it won't diminish the game or be tolerated for long.

Any fines will probably be more than anticipated revenue. Any scoring advantage by offended sides will probably be allowed to stand.

I don't see an upside - just pointing out when one has a ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to a problem, it can result in absurdities.

We have plenty of rules currently that handle racism. The problem is that FIFA is not serious about enforcement.

Don't you realize FIFA is trying to shift more burden on to the officials here????? Now FIFA can justify it's non-action by saying "Well, the match official didn't even stop the game - we're certainly are not going to punish a team if the official didn't stop the game."

FIFA is setting officials up to be the bad guy and it's BS. If FIFA just handed out swift, strict punishments racism would not be an issue on gameday.

All it would take is for FIFA to layout major fines and immediately put teams out of tournaments. Two years of that happening to a few teams and the message would get across and the fans - a term I use loosely here - would stop. If FIFA had the balls to put say Barca* out of the CL during a quarterfinal - teams would take notice.

As far as keeping any scoring advantage - I don't think we should let the actions of what I think we can agree is probably less than 5% of all fans affect our game.


* I'm not implying Barca are racist - just using the name of a big club. It could be substituted by any name.

[code1390]

How would an Italian ref know if German fans are chanting racist chants when he doesn't speak German?

[MassachusettsRef]

I also agree with o5iiawah.

I like the idea of a "crowd caution" and a "crowd send off."

If the referee feels it is needed he can stop the game and notify the home team's representative who will then cause an announcement to be broadcast.

The second time a stronger announcement is made and the home team plays down a man (thus the term "crowd send off"). The visiting coach chooses who is "sent off." As with a regular send off there is a "one game suspension." Fiive minutes before the start of the next game the opposing coach will strike one player off of the team's lineup. The team does not have to play down a man.

If the game is stopped the visiting team can choose: a forfeit win, accept the game as it stands, resume the game after the stadium is cleared, replay the game. Some of the choices are odd but with tie breakers they may make sense in certain situations.

I like this because the crowd that is responsible is punished at that game. It will also encourage the fans to police themselves.No offense, but my head is spinning from this!

The sport is played on the field, by the players. To allow fans to cause send offs that are applied by coaches and whatnot... it has nothing to do with sport. Plus, the potential for abuse of such a rule by visiting supporters (already a real possibility with the current standards) would increase exponentially. You'd be having match results decided and send offs appealed/upheld based based on proceedings to decide which fans were supporting whom and how they behaved. Sorry, I think this is a terrible idea.

Racism is bad and every effort should be made to stamp it out from soccer stadia. But let's not go too far. What about supporters who issue death threats to referees, which we've seen recently? Surely that's as bad as, if not worse than, racist chants. Are we going to rescind results, ban teams, or issue "administrative" send offs after those occurrences? Where would you draw the line with off-the-field incidents? It's way too much of a slippery slope.

UEFA has done what it should do. It's reiterated the powers that referees already have and pointed out that they can and should be apply when certain crowd trouble arises.

[DadOf6]

No offense, but my head is spinning from this!

It was meant to do that.

The sport is played on the field, by the players. To allow fans to cause send offs that are applied by coaches and whatnot... it has nothing to do with sport. Plus, the potential for abuse of such a rule by visiting supporters (already a real possibility with the current standards) would increase exponentially. You'd be having match results decided and send offs appealed/upheld based based on proceedings to decide which fans were supporting whom and how they behaved. Sorry, I think this is a terrible idea.

At some level we must add "for the fans." Although it has nothing to do with sport FIFA has said that racism must not be displayed by fans in its matches. If it is displayed, the teams get sanctioned and the sanctions are much harsher than what I just described. Playing one (or more) home match(es) in an empty stadium can kill a team that is teetering on the brink of insolvency.

The idea behind my idea (well not MY idea, but you get the point) is to punish the boorish fans and get them to police themselves. Losing the team's best player for the rest of the match is immediate. The fans know why it happened and they were warned. After the first warning the fans themselves will make sure that the offenders stop.

The visiting fan issue is a problem, that has not changed.

Racism is bad and every effort should be made to stamp it out from soccer stadia. But let's not go too far. What about supporters who issue death threats to referees, which we've seen recently? Surely that's as bad as, if not worse than, racist chants. Are we going to rescind results, ban teams, or issue "administrative" send offs after those occurrences? Where would you draw the line with off-the-field incidents? It's way too much of a slippery slope.

A death threat should be dealt with by ejecting the supporter and turning him over to the police. I haven't heard of any groups threatening a ref. I have heard of groups of supporters making racist chants. If a certain supporters group is identified the team should sanction the group (possibly revoking tickets and/or refusing to sell those seats to members of the group and opening them up to the general public.

UEFA has done what it should do. It's reiterated the powers that referees already have and pointed out that they can and should be apply when certain crowd trouble arises.

Agreed, is it enough?

The reason this came up is that FIFA has taken a stance on a societal issue (that has how much to do with sport?). Were they right in taking a stance? If they take a stance should they put teeth in it? Is what they are doing effective? Who really gets punished?

All rhetorical questions. I don't feel strongly enough to defend it more than this, but it is an interesting idea.

[Englishref]

This is one of the most ludicrous pieces of PR you'll see.

The reason racism is so bad in European football is because of, wait for it...UEFA!!

The number of times clubs or countries have been reported for racism - and it's happened so many times to England and English clubs that we know all about it - and all UEFA have done if fined them a few thousand euros, it's ridiculous. Very, very rarely have UEFA ever made a club/country play games behind closed doors.

So for UEFA to now turn around and try and appear as if they are serious about kicking out racism from football is a load of BS. You can gaurentee that even if a referee did stop a game for racism, UEFA would fail to adequately punish the offending team.

As much as action is needed, and even if it is a minority, it's about time that UEFA realised they're going to have to punish the majority to root out or change the attitude of the minority, just as England did 20 years ago.

[o5iiawah]

This is one of the most ludicrous pieces of PR you'll see.

The reason racism is so bad in European football is because of, wait for it...UEFA!!

The number of times clubs or countries have been reported for racism - and it's happened so many times to England and English clubs that we know all about it - and all UEFA have done if fined them a few thousand euros, it's ridiculous. Very, very rarely have UEFA ever made a club/country play games behind closed doors.

So for UEFA to now turn around and try and appear as if they are serious about kicking out racism from football is a load of BS. You can gaurentee that even if a referee did stop a game for racism, UEFA would fail to adequately punish the offending team.

As much as action is needed, and even if it is a minority, it's about time that UEFA realised they're going to have to punish the majority to root out or change the attitude of the minority, just as England did 20 years ago.

Well of course, thats why I put some of the blame on UEFA as well. I mean, how many times was Spain guilty of racist behavior for club and international matches? and Arragones calling Henry "that black piece of shit" was inexcuseable as well. Personally, I think Spain should have been banned from Euro2008 but thats another thread.