I need your assurance/criticism

[jacoismyhero]

We have a U17B team in town that creates a lot of trouble. They're a low level travel team that has had so many cards (red and yellow) that the coach was nearly called in for discipline. I had this team on Sunday, with two good friends and good referees, one of which unfortunately has ties to this team.

Two red cards were issued to this team. One was for language, and the other for violent conduct. Prior to the VC red card, after another foul, when I felt the team was losing control, I told the coach sternly that his team's behavior is unacceptable. Verbatim, I said "I don't want to deal with this behavior today." It was certainly curt, but I didn't feel it was out of line; I did not raise my voice. I was frustrated and wanted to make sure that the coaches understood that the game was escalating to studio wrestling and I wanted to protect everyone on the field. I was told by my AR (the one with ties to the team) that the coach was trying to help and I shouldn't have "snapped" at him.

The VC is what concerns me the most:

Both players inadvertently went down as the ball rolled over the goal line for a goal kick. Player from Team Trouble in getting up cocks his elbow back and throws a fist into the opponent's back. None of the players responded except for two of his own teammates (who yelled at him) who saw it right next to me as I was closing to prevent confrontation. I chalk this up to no one seeing it, as it was fairly concealed, but my AR said it must be because of the punch not happening. He said that he and the coach were standing on the sideline together and didn't see anything, and coupled with the lack of emotion from the players, he says this must mean nothing happened.

I get a call this morning saying that there is word they're going to try and file an appeal on the VC red card. I text the two ARs to let them know of the situation and the one responds with "Well, some of your other calls were questionable and you were out of line with the coach so I expected this." I'm really concerned that his close nature with this team undermined my authority and character.

Please tell me I'm not just being paranoid. If I do sound paranoid, please tell me that I'm an idiot.

[PVancouver]

Verbatim, I said "I don't want to deal with this behavior today."

Doesn't sound out of line to me.

"I was told by my AR that the coach was trying to help and I shouldn't have "snapped" at him.

He might have a point, it all depends on how hard the coach was "trying to help".

Player from Team Trouble in getting up cocks his elbow back and throws a fist into the opponent's back. None of the players responded except for two of his own teammates (who yelled at him) who saw it right next to me as I was closing to prevent confrontation.

Well, if two of his teammates saw it and yelled at him for throwing the punch, then clearly it happened and clearly you have witnesses. If you can recall which two players they were, you can even use your AR to have them step forward.

Assuming it did happen, there could be a difference of opinion of how "serious" a punch it was.

"Well, some of your other calls were questionable and you were out of line with the coach so I expected this."

This has no bearing on the merits of the appeal.

I'm really concerned that his close nature with this team undermined my authority and character. Please tell me I'm not just being paranoid. If I do sound paranoid, please tell me that I'm an idiot."

Did he make his comments public?

They're a low level travel team that has had so many cards (red and yellow) that the coach was nearly called in for discipline.

Obviously the team is already a known issue. I don't think you have anything to worry about. It is a low-level team. No one but you will care if the red card is overturned or not. You saw what you saw. Even if for whatever reason it gets overturned, the powers that be weren't there, and it is doubtful that there is any video. I wouldn't worry about it.

[falcon.7]

If you feel that AR1 cannot be impartial at a hearing, just request that he not be there. If the committee wants to know why, use his words as evidence.

Referees should stick together, but if he's going to throw you under the bus than screw it. You did the right thing. Don't let some jerk with an agenda mess that up for you.

[campbed]

"Player from Team Trouble in getting up cocks his elbow back and throws a fist into the opponent's back."

Did I miss somewhere in the LOTG that the referee needs witnesses to corroborate his/her calls?

If I'm AR, and my center sees something I didn't, and it rises to the level of a send off, I'm thinking boy I didn't see it, but he sure did if he's giving a red card.

With the quote above, and your report, it matters not if your AR(s) saw it or not. You did, therefore it happened. End of appeal.

Agree with previous post. AR1 will not be attending the hearing (or reffing with me again), questions answered with AR1 quote.

As to you being an idiot, well in certain circles the fact that you/we are referees answers that one. :D

[intechpc]

Are you an idiot? Not even close, but your AR is. I don't mind AR's that want to give some feedback during the match (say at half time or even afterward if I ask) but the way you describe this guy's comments, he's way out of line. If you saw a punch it happened, your AR should be embarrassed that he didn't see it. You don't need witnesses either. Presumably you were a lot closer to the action than your AR anyway so I'd say you had the better perspective.

As far as the appeal goes, just give them the facts as you saw them. You can mention his teammates that came in and had words with him if you like. Just be candid, honest and don't get emotional. Remember, it's not a personal thing. They're not appealing because you did something wrong, they're appealing because they don't want the player suspended. So don't let it get to you, just state the facts and let the process take care of the rest. Even if it were to get overturned (very doubtful), who cares, it won't be used as a damnation of you.

Sorry to hear you had such crappy support from one of the members of your team, that's really unfortunate. I've heard it said that the AR's job is to make the CR look good. I disagree slightly with that. It's the crew's job to make the entire crew look good. We should be working as a team to project a clear, consistent and authoritative presence on and off the field.

[NW Referee]

We have a U17B team in town that creates a lot of trouble. They're a low level travel team that has had so many cards (red and yellow) that the coach was nearly called in for discipline. I had this team on Sunday, with two good friends and good referees, one of which unfortunately has ties to this team.

Two red cards were issued to this team. One was for language, and the other for violent conduct. Prior to the VC red card, after another foul, when I felt the team was losing control, I told the coach sternly that his team's behavior is unacceptable. Verbatim, I said "I don't want to deal with this behavior today." It was certainly curt, but I didn't feel it was out of line; I did not raise my voice. I was frustrated and wanted to make sure that the coaches understood that the game was escalating to studio wrestling and I wanted to protect everyone on the field. I was told by my AR (the one with ties to the team) that the coach was trying to help and I shouldn't have "snapped" at him.

The VC is what concerns me the most:

Both players inadvertently went down as the ball rolled over the goal line for a goal kick. Player from Team Trouble in getting up cocks his elbow back and throws a fist into the opponent's back. None of the players responded except for two of his own teammates (who yelled at him) who saw it right next to me as I was closing to prevent confrontation. I chalk this up to no one seeing it, as it was fairly concealed, but my AR said it must be because of the punch not happening. He said that he and the coach were standing on the sideline together and didn't see anything, and coupled with the lack of emotion from the players, he says this must mean nothing happened.

I get a call this morning saying that there is word they're going to try and file an appeal on the VC red card. I text the two ARs to let them know of the situation and the one responds with "Well, some of your other calls were questionable and you were out of line with the coach so I expected this." I'm really concerned that his close nature with this team undermined my authority and character.

Please tell me I'm not just being paranoid. If I do sound paranoid, please tell me that I'm an idiot.

It is unforunate when things like this happen but I don't think you are being paranoid.

Several things to think about:

1. Do you know why the AR with ties to the one team was assigned to the game in the first place? Assignors usually try to avoid conflicts of this type; do you know if the assignor knew of this relationship? What were the "ties" of your AR to this team?

2. Given the situation with an AR with ties to one team, I would not have put him on that team's side of the field. He should have been on the opposite touchline from the team he had ties to.

3. Rather than texting your AR's, it might have been better to call them to discuss this. People are less likely to throw you under the bus if they are talking to you whereas it is easier to do with faceless communication such as texting or e-mails (or internet forums ;) ). This of course does not excuse the behavior of your one AR. You decribe him as a "good friend". Why not call him up and ask him about his comments?

4. Your comment to the coach could have been phrased better but I don't think it was out of line. By adding "Today" to what you said, you imply that on another day you would allow it. It would have been better to say something like "Your team's behavior is not acceptable."

5. I'm a little confused about which AR was the one by the red card. You said your AR (the one with ties to the team) and the coach were standing together when the red card was given. You don't say if this happened on this AR's side of the field or if it was the other AR's side. If this was on his side of the field what was the coach doing this close to the goal line? Or was the AR not at the goal line where he should have been? If this was not his side, he's standing at mid-field 50 or more yards away and it isn't surprising he couldn't see what happened.

6. As others have said, if it does come to an appeal just be factual. The Referee is not required to seek "approval" from his AR's. Sometimes they can see the same thing but sometimes they can't because of distance or shielding and it also works in reverse when the Center is shielded but the AR sees it. If you saw it, that should be good enough.

Good luck and don't beat yourself up! :)

[nonya]

Referee Commitment

4. Supporting my fellow officials with loyalty, pride and dignity.




enough said.

[jkc313]

We have a U17B team in town that creates a lot of trouble. They're a low level travel team that has had so many cards (red and yellow) that the coach was nearly called in for discipline. I had this team on Sunday, with two good friends and good referees, one of which unfortunately has ties to this team.

Two red cards were issued to this team. One was for language, and the other for violent conduct. Prior to the VC red card, after another foul, when I felt the team was losing control, I told the coach sternly that his team's behavior is unacceptable. Verbatim, I said "I don't want to deal with this behavior today." It was certainly curt, but I didn't feel it was out of line; I did not raise my voice. I was frustrated and wanted to make sure that the coaches understood that the game was escalating to studio wrestling and I wanted to protect everyone on the field. I was told by my AR (the one with ties to the team) that the coach was trying to help and I shouldn't have "snapped" at him.

The VC is what concerns me the most:

Both players inadvertently went down as the ball rolled over the goal line for a goal kick. Player from Team Trouble in getting up cocks his elbow back and throws a fist into the opponent's back. None of the players responded except for two of his own teammates (who yelled at him) who saw it right next to me as I was closing to prevent confrontation. I chalk this up to no one seeing it, as it was fairly concealed, but my AR said it must be because of the punch not happening. He said that he and the coach were standing on the sideline together and didn't see anything, and coupled with the lack of emotion from the players, he says this must mean nothing happened.

I get a call this morning saying that there is word they're going to try and file an appeal on the VC red card. I text the two ARs to let them know of the situation and the one responds with "Well, some of your other calls were questionable and you were out of line with the coach so I expected this." I'm really concerned that his close nature with this team undermined my authority and character.

Please tell me I'm not just being paranoid. If I do sound paranoid, please tell me that I'm an idiot.
What was an AR with connections to one team even doing a U17 travel game? You say he's a friend of yours? Nice friend. Undermines your authority and then participates with a coach to protest a send off? Sounds to me as if you handled the coach just fine. You witnessed a player punch an opponent in the back and sent him off. Because the AR didn't see it he's siding with the sent off players' coach? And then he has the nerve to question your integrity in an email? You're an idiot if you think this person is your friend.

[boylanj64]

Agree with everyone else, this AR sounds like he has an axe to grind and shouldn't have even been on the game. This isn't a court of law, you don't need multiple witnesses to back you up, and your AR certainly shouldn't be arguing with you about something he didn't even see.