Bradenton

[ChrisE]

So, I've been working on compiling a list of all the players who have gone through US Soccer's premier player-development factory. There isn't really a lot of analysis that comes with something like this, but I think it's interesting to see where players are coming from, where they go, etc. It's also just a convenient thing to have around.

I'm not going to post the all-time list, but anyone interested can find it here. (http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/stats_results.sps?iType=270&icustompageid=9205)


The only comprehensive list that I have so far pertains to State of origin. Of the 122 players who have trained at least one semester at Bradenton, they are distributed by state as such:

CA 31
TX 12
IL 9
NJ 8
MD 7
FL 6
GA 6
NC 6
VA 6
NY 5
MI 4
PA 4
IN 3
OH 3
MS 2
WI 2
AZ 1
CO 1
DC 1
MO 1
OR 1
RI 1
SC 1
TN 1

[mellon002]

I think a lot of them go back to their states of origin because MLS wants players there in a place they are familiar with ala Freddy Adu and Memo Gonzalez.

[ChrisE]

Since, staring at it, I realize that list is totally uninteresting, here's another on the always popular age-bias topic.

I'm missing two birthdates from Spring 2002 and 6 from Fall 2003, so this list is a little bit incomplete; nevertheless, it's probably accurate on the whole, covering 267/275 possible birthdate/semesters.


Spring 1999 3.85
Fall 1999 4.00
Spring 2000 5.28
Fall 2000 4.80
Spring 2001 4.80
Fall 2001 5.17
Spring 2002 3.89
Fall 2002 4.23
Spring 2003 4.43
Fall 2003 5.00
Spring 2004 4.78


From the looks of it, absolutely no progress has been made on the age-discrimination problem.

Average birth-month of first five semesters: 4.55
Average birth-month of second five semesters: 4.58

I don't have any suggestions about solving this or anything like that, or even have an opinion on whether it's a problem, but I think it's good to know whether or not things are changing (in this case, they're not).

[ChrisE]

I think a lot of them go back to their states of origin because MLS wants players there in a place they are familiar with ala Freddy Adu and Memo Gonzalez.

I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this, mellon. I think it's clear that MLS prefers to place players as close as possible to their homes, but that's not always the case. Of the 15 players that have gone from Bradenton to MLS skipping college, 9 have been placed with the closest team possible, while 6 have gone to others (the six are Mapp, Magee, Johnson, Capano, Beckerman, Beasley).

I think you see certain clubs, like New England and Kansas City negatively impacted by this fact (I believe Nicolas Colaluca, RI, is the only Bradenton player ever from the New England area), it doesn't seem to have had a huge impact on their ability to compete.

Footnote: I'm trying to record everybody's club team. Does anybody know where (or whether) Damarcus Beasley, Bobby Convey, Landon Donovan, or Alex Yi played club soccer? (strangely, they've been harder than most of the more obscure players)

[mellon002]

I thought I remembered hearing that Donovan played Florida ODP growing up.

You said what I meant to say. MLS tries to put players near there homes is what I meant. It doesn't work all the time but they at least try. Plus I dunno where Mapp is from but he has already been traded.

[peledre]

I thought I remembered hearing that Donovan played Florida ODP growing up.

You said what I meant to say. MLS tries to put players near there homes is what I meant. It doesn't work all the time but they at least try. Plus I dunno where Mapp is from but he has already been traded.
Mapp is from Mississippi.

[mellon002]

Thanks Peledre. I guess Mapp would be closest to Dallas or maybe KC. I think guys like that don't really count though. Freddy was from a DC suburb and Memo was from LA. I'm talkin' about guys like that.

[ChrisE]

Thanks Peledre. I guess Mapp would be closest to Dallas or maybe KC. I think guys like that don't really count though. Freddy was from a DC suburb and Memo was from LA. I'm talkin' about guys like that.

If you want, I've got a real nice spreadsheet. Mapp is from Jackson, Mississippi, played for Jackson FC, was at Bradenton for 4 semesters, etc.

Of the 11 guys who had a clear 'home' club, 8 went to it, with the exceptions being Beckerman (D.C.), Capano (Metros) and Magee (Fire).

[ChrisE]

What impact has Bradenton had on MLS? Has its impact been growing? Here's a list, season-by-season, of players who've joined (i.e. played their first minute) in MLS who graduated our training camp.

2000: 4 (Beasley, Beckerman, Convey, Trembly)
2001: 3 (Donovan, Johnson, Quaranta)
2002: 5 (Akwari, Capano, Countess, Mapp, Stone)
2003: 3 (Gaven, Gonzalez, Magee)
2004: 6 (Adu, Bradley, Cila, Cronin, Detter, Marshall)

MLS has not yet lost a player from Bradenton, so by year, there have been 4, 7, 12, and 15 graduates in the league. This year, the league got its first two four-year college graduates, Jordan Cila and Justin Detter; we should be due a good deal more, as the guys who didn't turn out to be top prospects keep filtering in (guys like Abe Thompson, Jordan Harvey, Chris Lancos, Heath Pearce, etc.).

The number joining per year should rise for the foreseeable future, as US soccer added 10 extra spots in the fall of 2002 and 10 more in the fall of 2003.

[Elninho]

Footnote: I'm trying to record everybody's club team. Does anybody know where (or whether) Damarcus Beasley, Bobby Convey, Landon Donovan, or Alex Yi played club soccer? (strangely, they've been harder than most of the more obscure players)

DaMarcus Beasley - Citadel Soccer Club
Landon Donovan - California Heat

Alex Yi - probably Potomac Cougars?

Can't find Convey's club. Possibly did not play club soccer.

I just spent 45 minutes searching. Interestingly, I was able to find all of their high schools within 5 minutes, and their high school playing records in not much longer.

[ChrisE]

DaMarcus Beasley - Citadel Soccer Club
Landon Donovan - California Heat

Alex Yi - probably Potomac Cougars?

Can't find Convey's club. Possibly did not play club soccer.

I just spent 45 minutes searching. Interestingly, I was able to find all of their high schools within 5 minutes, and their high school playing records in not much longer.

Thanks a lot, elninho. I also found that high schools were tremendously easier to find than clubs.

I think I've got them all now (I didn't list a few that I thought would be even more difficult to find; I wasn't expecting anybody to actually scour the internet like me). Could you give me a link to the Potomac Cougars reference you found, an old u-17 world cup bio lists him as playing for CONCACAF Potomac (here (http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/roster/u-17men/yi.htm)), which I figured was probably the Potomac Cougars.

(Gersman tells me Convey played for Philadelphia SC, and if there's anybody to trust on the subject, I think it's him)

[Elninho]

Thanks a lot, elninho. I also found that high schools were tremendously easier to find than clubs.

I think I've got them all now (I didn't list a few that I thought would be even more difficult to find; I wasn't expecting anybody to actually scour the internet like me). Could you give me a link to the Potomac Cougars reference you found, an old u-17 world cup bio lists him as playing for CONCACAF Potomac (here (http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/roster/u-17men/yi.htm)), which I figured was probably the Potomac Cougars.

(Gersman tells me Convey played for Philadelphia SC, and if there's anybody to trust on the subject, I think it's him)

I found the same link you did. Hence "probably" and the question mark.

[ChrisE]

Well, after a pretty time-consuming search, and with thanks to Elninho and GersMan, here's a list that nobody's going to care about. A list of youth clubs ranked by how many Bradenton players they've produced. In the case that a player played for more than one club, I tried to list both, but am sure I missed some.


Irvine Strikers 10
Chicago Sockers 7
FC Delco 5
Nomads 5
Potomac Cougars 5
CASL Elite 4
Chicago Magic 4
Vardar III 4
Concorde Fire 3
Dallas Texans 3
Ajax United 2
Charlotte SC 2
Commack United 2
Dallas Comets 2
San Juan Lightning 2
Solar SC 2
AFC Lightning 1
Ambassador SC 1
Arsenal SC 1
Atlanta Fire 1
Ballistic United 1
Bayside United 1
Beach FC Impact 1
Bethesda International 1
Blackwatch 1
Bollitieri (!) 1
Braddock Road 1
Busch SC 1
California Heat 1
Central Florida United Phoenix 1
Citadel SC 1
CJSO 1
Claremont Stars 1
Classics SC 1
Cleveland Force 1
Club Dallas 1
Colorado Rush 1
Cruz Azul 1
Dallas Inter 1
Embrook United 1
Fayetteville Force 1
FC Potomac 1
Flagler United 1
Fram Gunners 1
Global Soccer School 1
HC United 1
Hibernians FC 1
Houston Texans 1
Houstonians 1
IAYMCA Eagles 1
Jackson FC 1
Jacksonville KYX 1
Leeds United 1
Match Fit United 1
Metro FC 1
Michigan Wolves 1
Middletown Vipers 1
N.Y. Hota/Bavarian SC 1
New Rochelle Raiders 1
North Pumas 1
ODSC Arsenal 1
Ohio Thunder 1
Parkland SC 1
PDA United 1
Philadelphia SC 1
PSG 1
Putnam Valley 1
PVSC Raiders 1
Reston FC 1
Richmond Strikers 1
Roanoke Star Premier 1
Santa Anita Sting 1
SC Baltimore 1
Sereno SC 1
So. Cal United 1
Spartac International 1
SSC Dalglish 1
Turlock Tornados 1
United Quest 1
Visalia Suns 1
West Villa SC 1
Weston SC 1
World Class Olympic 1

[davide]

Hmm, I just noticed this thread. I've collected most of the info you've gathered in this thread over the years.

Bobby Convey's club team in Philly was named Coppa FC.

Landon Donovan and Estuardo Sanchez played at Santa Anita SC.

The lists provided by the USSF are not entirely accurate.

Ryan Daley and Abe Thompson were in residency during in the Fall of '99. Landon Donovan was playing in Germany.

Robbie Rogers and Rodrigo Hidalgo entered residency in the Spring '03. They replaced Eric Vogl and Brandon Oot.

Cal South Club Breakdown:
SASC 2 (Sanchez and Donovan)
Claremont Stars 1 (Jackson)
Irvine Strikers 7 (Rodriquez, Rodriquez, Chun, Harvey, Wahl, Hahn, and apparently Borja played for them last fall)
Alta Loma Arsenal 1 (Marshall)
AGSS 1 (D Johnson)
SMU Autobahn 1 (Gomez)
Celtic FC 2 (Gonzalez, Jimenez)
Slammers 1 (Rueckner)
Nomads 4 (Owens, Farfan, Farfan, Avila)
Palos Verdes SC 1 (Rogers)
So Cal United 1 (Folk)
FRAM 1 (Nakazawa)

State Totals
Cal South 23
Cal North 10 * (included Igwe)
Illinois 10
Maryland 9
Texas North 9
NJ 7
NC 6
Ga 6
Fla 6
Mich 5
NY 5
Pa 4
Va 4
Texas South 3 (USSF need to get a scout in Houston ASAP, 4 current P-40s are natives and only Akwari spent time at residency)
Ohio 3
Wash 2
Wisc 2
Miss 2
Wash 2 * (both joined recently)
Indiana 2
Arizona 1
Colorado 1
DC 1
Missouri 1
Oregon 1
South Carolina 1
Rhode Island 1
Tennessee 1
Total 126

Clubs when they became National team players:
Irvine Strikers 7
Chicago Sockers 6
Potomac Cougars 4 + 2 FC Potomac (same club??)
CASL 4
Vardar 4
Dallas Texans 3
Chicago Magic 3
FC Delco 2

[voros]

I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this, mellon. I think it's clear that MLS prefers to place players as close as possible to their homes, but that's not always the case. Of the 15 players that have gone from Bradenton to MLS skipping college, 9 have been placed with the closest team possible, while 6 have gone to others (the six are Mapp, Magee, Johnson, Capano, Beckerman, Beasley).

I think the Fire are the closest team to Ft. Wayne, Indiana (Beasley's home) but I may be wrong it could be Columbus I suppose. Magee likely would have stayed at home with the Fire, but he followed Bob Bradley instead who had him in training with the Fire for a while. So while Magee is an exception (like I suppose Michael Bradley would be) there's a good reason for it.

Not sure why Eddie Johnson didn't go to one of the Florida clubs.

Here's the mileage on Mapp according to Mappquest :)

Jackson, MS to

Washington DC = 980 miles
Columbus, OH = 790 miles
Dallas, TX = 400 miles
Kansas City, MO = 725 miles
Chicago, IL = 740 miles

As for Beasley, Ft. Wayne is 203 miles from Chicago and 162 miles from Columbus so Columbus would have been the closer team, but because it's a straight shot up the interstate, it also says Chicago is the slightly shorter drive in terms of time.

[ChrisE]

Hmm, I just noticed this thread. I've collected most of the info you've gathered in this thread over the years.

Bobby Convey's club team in Philly was named Coppa FC.

Landon Donovan and Estuardo Sanchez played at Santa Anita SC.

The lists provided by the USSF are not entirely accurate.

Ryan Daley and Abe Thompson were in residency during in the Fall of '99. Landon Donovan was playing in Germany.

Robbie Rogers and Rodrigo Hidalgo entered residency in the Spring '03. They replaced Eric Vogl and Brandon Oot.

Cal South Club Breakdown:
SASC 2 (Sanchez and Donovan)
Claremont Stars 1 (Jackson)
Irvine Strikers 7 (Rodriquez, Rodriquez, Chun, Harvey, Wahl, Hahn, and apparently Borja played for them last fall)
Alta Loma Arsenal 1 (Marshall)
AGSS 1 (D Johnson)
SMU Autobahn 1 (Gomez)
Celtic FC 2 (Gonzalez, Jimenez)
Slammers 1 (Rueckner)
Nomads 4 (Owens, Farfan, Farfan, Avila)
Palos Verdes SC 1 (Rogers)
So Cal United 1 (Folk)
FRAM 1 (Nakazawa)

State Totals
Cal South 23
Cal North 10 * (included Igwe)
Illinois 10
Maryland 9
Texas North 9
NJ 7
NC 6
Ga 6
Fla 6
Mich 5
NY 5
Pa 4
Va 4
Texas South 3 (USSF need to get a scout in Houston ASAP, 4 current P-40s are natives and only Akwari spent time at residency)
Ohio 3
Wash 2
Wisc 2
Miss 2
Wash 2 * (both joined recently)
Indiana 2
Arizona 1
Colorado 1
DC 1
Missouri 1
Oregon 1
South Carolina 1
Rhode Island 1
Tennessee 1
Total 126

Clubs when they became National team players:
Irvine Strikers 7
Chicago Sockers 6
Potomac Cougars 4 + 2 FC Potomac (same club??)
CASL 4
Vardar 4
Dallas Texans 3
Chicago Magic 3
FC Delco 2


davide, thanks a lot for all the information. Do you know if Donovan also played for the Heat - I believe there's an interview somewhere where he mentions it specifically. Also, GersMan told me Convey played played for Philadelphia SC (?).

I tried to be as inclusive as possible (since I have no way to know which clubs to discriminate against), so when players played for more than one, I listed them with both. So, for Example, I've also got Trini Gomez, Memo Gonzalez, Christian Jiminez, and Chad Marshall with the team (plus Arsenal, Autobahn Santa Anita, and Celtic).

[ChrisE]

I think the Fire are the closest team to Ft. Wayne, Indiana (Beasley's home) but I may be wrong it could be Columbus I suppose. Magee likely would have stayed at home with the Fire, but he followed Bob Bradley instead who had him in training with the Fire for a while. So while Magee is an exception (like I suppose Michael Bradley would be) there's a good reason for it.

Thanks voros, just like Magee is an exception because of Bradley, I believe Capano had some ties to Chicago (and Magee). I think a lot of this is going to be somewhat arbitrary.

As for Beasley, I'd agree with you, but, although he never played a game there, I'm counting Beasley's first club as the Galaxy. Considering that Beasley wasn't in the draft, but actually got placed in Los Angeles by MLS, I think this is a pretty legitimate case of MLS not doing what the player wanted.





Not sure why Eddie Johnson didn't go to one of the Florida clubs.
[quote]

I'd imagine half of it was because Ray Hudson was managing the Fusion.


[quote]
Here's the mileage on Mapp according to Mappquest :)

Jackson, MS to

Washington DC = 980 miles
Columbus, OH = 790 miles
Dallas, TX = 400 miles
Kansas City, MO = 725 miles
Chicago, IL = 740 miles

As for Beasley, Ft. Wayne is 203 miles from Chicago and 162 miles from Columbus so Columbus would have been the closer team, but because it's a straight shot up the interstate, it also says Chicago is the slightly shorter drive in terms of time.

Awesome. We see here quite clearly that MLS has broken the natural order of things, and that Justin Mapp should be immediately returned to his rightful club, the Dallas Burn. I'll probably be holding a hunger strike or something.

[numerista]

Cal South Club Breakdown:
SASC 2 (Sanchez and Donovan)
Claremont Stars 1 (Jackson)
Irvine Strikers 7 (Rodriquez, Rodriquez, Chun, Harvey, Wahl, Hahn, and apparently Borja played for them last fall)
Alta Loma Arsenal 1 (Marshall)
AGSS 1 (D Johnson)
SMU Autobahn 1 (Gomez)
Celtic FC 2 (Gonzalez, Jimenez)
Slammers 1 (Rueckner)
Nomads 4 (Owens, Farfan, Farfan, Avila)
Palos Verdes SC 1 (Rogers)
So Cal United 1 (Folk)
FRAM 1 (Nakazawa)


This is starting to look suggestive. Despite their awesome team, the Irvine Strikers kids haven't made an impact at a higher level. Meanwhile, other SoCal clubs have produced the likes of Donovan, Marshall, Memo, David Johnson, Owens, and Rogers.

[numerista]

I don't have any suggestions about solving this or anything like that, or even have an opinion on whether it's a problem, but I think it's good to know whether or not things are changing (in this case, they're not).

The reason to conclude that it's a problem is if early-year players have a lower probability of going on to succeed at a higher level. (IIRC, davide has documented that this happens with kids coming up from the U-13 to U-17 level.)

Anyway, Bradenton alums in MLS by birth month:
JAN: Countess, Gonzalez
FEB: Akwari
MAR: Donovan, Johnson, Stone, Trembly
APR: Beckerman, Cila
MAY: Beasley, Convey, Cronin
JUN: Adu
JUL: Bradley, Capano
AUG: Marshall, Detter
SEP: Magee
OCT: Gaven, Mapp, Quaranta
NOV:
DEC:

Ave birth month: 5.43

Given that the overall average at Bradenton is roughly 4.57, this suggests that later-month kids have a much higher chance of providing return on investment. US soccer needs to allocate more resources to them.

[davide]

davide, thanks a lot for all the information. Do you know if Donovan also played for the Heat - I believe there's an interview somewhere where he mentions it specifically. Also, GersMan told me Convey played played for Philadelphia SC (?).

I tried to be as inclusive as possible (since I have no way to know which clubs to discriminate against), so when players played for more than one, I listed them with both. So, for Example, I've also got Trini Gomez, Memo Gonzalez, Christian Jiminez, and Chad Marshall with the team (plus Arsenal, Autobahn Santa Anita, and Celtic).

I have Donovan's club listed as the Santa Anita Heat, but I think they were called California Heat as well. It's a bit confusing. Donovan and Sanchez were trained by the same coach though.

It seems that FC Coppa is part of Philadelphia SC. In the USSF press releases, they usually listed it as simply FC Coppa.
http://www.fccoppa.com/

I only gave credit to the club listed when the player joined the National team program usually at age 15. For example, Marshall didn't play for Irvine until after he left Bradenton.