Arsenal - Man U: Fletcher Red

[midmogooner]

Does anyone have any thoughts on that? My opinion was that

1) in a replay it is a clear foul (regardless of whether he might have touched the ball first)
2) It was a DOGSO-->Red

Regardless of this I am not entirely surprised to see the media (and Alex Ferguson and to certain extent even Arsene Wenger) think it was not a red. See e.g. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5288096,00.html

The clip can be seen (at least for now) at http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x975az_arsenal-v-manchester-united-050509_sport?from=rss

[hradilv]

Does anyone have any thoughts on that? My opinion was that

1) in a replay it is a clear foul (regardless of whether he might have touched the ball first)
2) It was a DOGSO-->Red

Regardless of this I am not entirely surprised to see the media (and Alex Ferguson and to certain extent even Arsene Wenger) think it was not a red. See e.g. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5288096,00.html

The clip can be seen (at least for now) at http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x975az_arsenal-v-manchester-united-050509_sport?from=rss

I agree 100% - good call Mr. Rosetti!

[akindc]

Obviously, just because Fletcher made contact with the ball first, doesn't mean it's not a foul. We all know that. But you can make a case that his touch knocked the ball away from the attacker, thus when he actually committed the foul it was no longer an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
Almost an impossible rationalization to make in real time however...so I certainly wouldn't fault Rosetti's call.

[Rufusabc]

During SFA's reign at ManU there has never been a deserved red given to anyone of his players. EVER!

Can Rosetti get the final?

[bluedevils]

in my opinion it is a foul and if it is a foul, it must be a sendoff. The argument that some folks might make that it was not an obvious goalscoring opportunity at the time of the foul...in my opinion, that is a bogus and ridiculous argument.

Listening to the ESPN commentators discuss the decision was hilarious.

[ManiacalClown]

IMO it was a reckless tackle that denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

[akindc]

in my opinion it is a foul and if it is a foul, it must be a sendoff. The argument that some folks might make that it was not an obvious goalscoring opportunity at the time of the foul...in my opinion, that is a bogus and ridiculous argument.


Why is it a bogus argument?

[Sport Billy]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9756d_arsenal-vs-manchester-united-31-all_sport?from=rss

1:50 mark

No ball contact at all - not that it matters.

I'd consider giving a red even if this wasn't DOGSO - but since it was, it's definitely a red.

[akindc]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9756d_arsenal-vs-manchester-united-31-all_sport?from=rss

1:50 mark

No ball contact at all - not that it matters.

I'd consider giving a red even if this wasn't DOGSO - but since it was, it's definitely a red.

No ball contact? Are we watching the same video? It seems clear to me that Fletcher makes contact with the ball on the bottom of his cleat.

[FIFARay007]

Fletch absolutely got contact on the ball, but only a split second before he completely took out Cesc's legs.

If it's going to be a foul, it's gotta be a red. If anything, it's more Fletch's fault for trying to reach his leg all the way around Fabregas to make a play on the ball. 99 times out of 100 you'll miss.

[Sport Billy]

No ball contact? Are we watching the same video? It seems clear to me that Fletcher makes contact with the ball on the bottom of his cleat.

After rewatching - you are correct - there is contact - but as I said, it doesn't matter as it was a reckless challenge.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Why was it reckless?

[akindc]

After rewatching - you are correct - there is contact - but as I said, it doesn't matter as it was a reckless challenge.

A "reckless challenge" isn't enough for a red card....that's a yellow. The red would be for DOGSO, but my point is that Fletcher knocked the ball far enough away from the attacker that it's no longer an obvious goal scoring opportunity at the time of the foul.

[hradilv]

A "reckless challenge" isn't enough for a red card....that's a yellow. The red would be for DOGSO, but my point is that Fletcher knocked the ball far enough away from the attacker that it's no longer an obvious goal scoring opportunity at the time of the foul.

This is like a "time dilation" effect. Sure in slow motion the ball was pushed away and then the foul occurred. In reality, they are the same event - the play was a foul, plain and simple and therefore DOGSO. There were not two plays (clearance then foul), only one play (foul).

[MassachusettsRef]

Why is it a bogus argument?I wouldn't say it's a completely bogus argument--I actually conceded on another board that some might try to say this. But I don't think it's correct. As someone has said just above me, it's one incident. Fletcher can't get to the ball with his left foot without scything down the Arsenal player with his right. You can't separate the two into vacuums. It's not like he cleared the ball toward touch, waited, then grabbed his opponent by the shirt. It's all one play.

As for this discussion about "recklessness"--I'm not sure why it's entering the equation. It's either DOGSO or it's not--it does not matter if the foul rises to "reckless" because DOGSO is a more serious level of misconduct on its own.

All in all, I think it was the correct call. People are harping on Rossetti because of the stage and the punishment that befalls Fletcher--some are saying he should have exercised "common sense." But this is one of those incidents where you can't bend the Laws--it was 3-1 with 20 minutes left... had it ended, say, 3-3 with 11 v 11, what would the pundits have said then? Rossetti did what he had to do, however distasteful. In the end, it was Fletcher that should have exercised more common sense. In that situation, at that moment, there was no need to make that tackle.

[Sport Billy]

A "reckless challenge" isn't enough for a red card....that's a yellow. The red would be for DOGSO, but my point is that Fletcher knocked the ball far enough away from the attacker that it's no longer an obvious goal scoring opportunity at the time of the foul.

I see your point, but his contact barely moves the ball and like others have said - this was all one event - a DOGSO.

[ManiacalClown]

As for this discussion about "recklessness"--I'm not sure why it's entering the equation. It's either DOGSO or it's not--it does not matter if the foul rises to "reckless" because DOGSO is a more serious level of misconduct on its own.

I've been using "reckless" to explain why it was a foul in the first place.

[FIFARay007]

I think debating whether or not it was a foul is one thing, but whether it's a yellow or red is just plain silly. If it's a foul, it's a red.

I'm a United supporter and I still am a bit torn on the call. I can see why it's a red, but I can also see that he did get the ball first. I think after watching replays, in slow motion, it's very easy to say it shouldn't have been a foul. But when watching it at normal speed, even from a good camera angle, it's also easy to call it a foul.

The way I figure it, Cesc was screening the ball from the ref, so there's no way he could have seen the touch, hence the red. If this same play had happened in midfield, and the ref seen the touch, I wonder if it still would have been called.

[Alberto]

Fletch absolutely got contact on the ball, but only a split second before he completely took out Cesc's legs.

If it's going to be a foul, it's gotta be a red. If anything, it's more Fletch's fault for trying to reach his leg all the way around Fabregas to make a play on the ball. 99 times out of 100 you'll miss.


That idiot Tommy Smyth went on how he got the ball first. Tommy needs to retire and play golf. Regardless of Fletcher getting the ball first he as you noted in your post, he took out Cesc. Clearly a foul and the 4 D's were met. Show the red card and send off Fletcher.

[FIFARay007]

That idiot Tommy Smyth went on how he got the ball first. Tommy needs to retire and play golf. Regardless of Fletcher getting the ball first he as you noted in your post, he took out Cesc. Clearly a foul and the 4 D's were met. Show the red card and send off Fletcher.

Jesus don't even get me started on Tommy....

If i hear him say "onionbag" once more, I'll effin kill him....