Behind our Backs

[Rufusabc]

I took a late assignment this weekend, and it was a U19B match, with the home team on double secret probation for actions in their last match. I was informed of that by my assignor, and I got to the match quite early to watch the warmup and maybe engage the coaches and talk to some of the players while I was checking nets and goals. I did a longer pre-game with my two AR's and told them to watch for anything and everything especially the late hits after turning upfield, and for any sneaky stuff that the older boys can come up with. I knew one of the coaches (visitors...blue team) even though I was 25 miles outside my sphere, and he knew people that I knew, etc. Congenial fellow, but he was filling in for the real head coach (warning sign #1). He was properly carded so there was no problem with him attending to the sideline. Home team coach (black) was a bit gruff and was wearing a NY Jet hat, so I chatted him up about the draft and Sanchez and he looked at me as though I had three heads. (Warning sign #2). Visitors had 9 turn up, and the home team had 11 to start. (#3). Not a lot in the match, but late in the first half blue coach goes absolutely nuts over a full blooded challenge made by black which is a clean win and not really as close to the opponent as the coach thinks. Black studs up slightly but distance to opponent was fine and it really wasn't as dangerous as it sounds. Black player commented that he was in total control of his tackle and blue player didn't even give the tackle a second thought. But coach wouldn't let it go. (#4).

At the half, the assistant coach for the home team calmly talks to me about a punch by blue 2 against one of his guys that left a mark. I ask both of my AR's if they saw anything and they didn't. (I later found out it was way after the play had moved in the opposite direction and it was on the far side of the field away from AR 1's quadrant). Before the second half began, I walked up to the recipient of the punch and asked him about it, and told him that it would not be a good idea to retalitate and that I would watch the aggressor. I also briefed my AR's about it.

Game continued for the next 30 minutes with not a heck of lot going on, and the black team taking an easy 4-1 lead. The black 'keeper was a bit of a jerk who had a taunting habit of grabbing through balls and putting them back on the ground and waiting until challenged before bombing the ball up the field. He finally made the mistake of catching one putting it on the ground and then he picked it up when challenged. I called the play and he was shocked! The resulting IFK was saved off the line and black was hooting and hollering about their prowess.

Soon after, a black attacker took out a blue defender again behind my back, and again it went unpunished because the play happened deep in the corner away from everyone after the play had moved again back up the field. (All this was relayed to me by my assignor who was watching the match as part of the double secret probation).

In the 80th minute, a routine trip at the halfway line started a fight between the two players, and it seemed to come out of NOWHERE. But, after the match, it is much easier to see that it didn't come out of thin air. Five yellows and 2 reds later, the match was over. Justice was served as blue #2 was red carded and the obnoxious 'keeper trash talked his way through the handshake line and when I called him over he talked himself into a straight red.

I always like to review what happens every time I do a match. And I like to see if I can do better. But sometimes things happen behind our backs EVEN if we ARE watching for it.

In a lengthy discussion with the coaches and club administrators after the match, it was obvious that neither coach had the respect of his players, the players didnt respect their own teammates nor their opponents. I found out from one of the representatives of the club that they were probably going to disband the team after the match.

I had no complaints about my handling of the match from the coaches or my assignor. The AR's did their best too. Sometimes, it just gets away. And to be honest with you, it rests squarely on the players who were old enough to drive themselves to the game, and old enough to know better.

I'm sure you have all been there, but it doesn't leave a good feeling for the game I love.


R

[Ref Flunkie]

I think this is a direct result of the fact that soccer is in general (A) easy to play and (B) inexpensive to play. The result is you get some teams that are just playing to do SOMETHING and really don't care that much about the game. Plus you have the side of society that encourages this BS behavior of not respecting anyone. As you said, some of the responsibility falls onto the players to conduct themselves in a reasonable manner (they are in theory adults at this age). Unfortunately, even with 3 sets of eyes and ears, you can't hear and see everything that is going on sometimes. Behind the back stuff pi$$es me off to no end, both because it happens and because I miss it (which is why even men's matches are not high on my list of games to do). At least it sounds like you made it through without too much of a disaster happening, which is unfortunately about all we can hope for in some of our games.

[falcon.7]

I also briefed my AR's about it.

And they interpreted your instructions to watch behind your back as meaning what exactly?

I struggle to understand why teams like this exist, and what their expectations are when they compete. They obviously don't care about winning, or if they do it's purely for bragging rights to their girlfriends. And they certainly don't care about playing the game with respect. But on the other hand, if they just wanted a place to kick a ball around and initiate some afters, there are unsanctioned leagues around that cost a lot less money to enter into.

What makes them tick? :confused:

[NHRef]

This is something an experienced 4th could have helped on, his job is to watch where nobody else is watching. However we very rarely, if ever, get them at youth games.

That said, the attacker/defender behind the back confrontations, not be be a trouble maker, but if they are deep behind you, why wouldn't that AR see them? He should be positioned down there, that's presumably the second to last defender, especially after the 1/2 time discussion about things happening down there. It's very hard to drill into ARs that they are NOT to watch the game/ball, they are to watch what's in front of them. Granted this is much easier when the players are in the same quadrant, but even on the other side of the field, after the warning, the AR should have kept an eye on them.

[PVancouver]

I took a late assignment this weekend, and it was a U19B match, with the home team on double secret probation for actions in their last match.

What is "double secret probation"?


Home team coach (black) was a bit gruff and was wearing a NY Jet hat, so I chatted him up about the draft and Sanchez and he looked at me as though I had three heads. (Warning sign #2).

Why, because he was a bit gruff, or that he didn't know anything about the NY Jets, or that he wasn't wearing a Barca cap?


Visitors had 9 turn up, and the home team had 11 to start.

Did blue play down 2 men the whole match?


Not a lot in the match, but late in the first half blue coach goes absolutely nuts over a full blooded challenge made by black which is a clean win and not really as close to the opponent as the coach thinks.

What did you say to the coach at this time?


At the half, the assistant coach for the home team calmly talks to me about a punch by blue 2 against one of his guys that left a mark.

Where did the punch land, and what position did #2 play?


The black 'keeper was a bit of a jerk who had a taunting habit of grabbing through balls and putting them back on the ground and waiting until challenged before bombing the ball up the field.

Black keeper has every right to do this, and is tactically smart.


He finally made the mistake of catching one putting it on the ground and then he picked it up when challenged. I called the play and he was shocked! The resulting IFK was saved off the line and black was hooting and hollering about their prowess.

I don't know why he would be shocked.


Soon after, a black attacker took out a blue defender again behind my back, and again it went unpunished because the play happened deep in the corner away from everyone after the play had moved again back up the field. (All this was relayed to me by my assignor who was watching the match as part of the double secret probation).

This wouldn't be blue #2, would it? What exactly happened during this "take out"?


In the 80th minute, a routine trip at the halfway line started a fight between the two players, and it seemed to come out of NOWHERE.

This seems a bit incongruous with the rest of the story.


Justice was served as blue #2 was red carded and the obnoxious 'keeper trash talked his way through the handshake line and when I called him over he talked himself into a straight red.

Talked himself into a straight red "using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures"?


In a lengthy discussion with the coaches and club administrators after the match, it was obvious that neither coach had the respect of his players

Because the black coaches didn't deserve respect or because the players refused to give them any respect? Do you feel the coaches were at fault here, all of the players, or just one or two players?

[Rufusabc]

I think the punch was hard to see, but the takedown probably was easy to see and my guy missed it.

I'm just at a loss though to figure out why you would pay the money to join one of these teams (couple hundred bucks) and then not turn up.

Brutal attitudes though. I hope they realize that the world is not going to be a s forgiving as their schools, teams and coaches.

[Rufusabc]

What is "double secret probation"?

It's a line from "Animal House", the Delta fraternity was on "Double secret probation, whatever the hell that is"....Dean Wormer quote.




Why, because he was a bit gruff, or that he didn't know anything about the NY Jets, or that he wasn't wearing a Barca cap?


He was wearing the hat and I am a Jet supporter so I figured we had something in common, but he didnt say a word.




Did blue play down 2 men the whole match?


Yes. And by the 80th minute everyone was walking.




What did you say to the coach at this time?

Coach...fair challenge and that is it on the conversation. No more.




Where did the punch land, and what position did #2 play?


He punched the attacker in the back (apparently) and he was the right back. I found all of this out from the club administrator who was watching the match from the parents side closer to where the punch took place.




Black keeper has every right to do this, and is tactically smart.

Not in a match that is lopsided. I thought it to be borderline taunting.




I don't know why he would be shocked.

He thought he could pick it up again.




This wouldn't be blue #2, would it? What exactly happened during this "take out"?

I think it was a late kick out. But it wasn't fully described to me after the match. Not sure if if was blue #2 who might have switched sides at that point in the match. Blue was dragging by then.




This seems a bit incongruous with the rest of the story.

Because the game was winding down and it was really at a walking pace by then with both teams running out the clock. And it was a tired tripping call, not done with any malice. That's why it was strange that this play set them all off.




Talked himself into a straight red "using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures"? Yes. He said he was so angry that he wanted to hit someone.




Because the black coaches didn't deserve respect or because the players refused to give them any respect? Do you feel the coaches were at fault here, all of the players, or just one or two players?

Blue had one hot head. Black had a number of out and out jerks. The coach wasn't respected by the players, the players didnt respect themselves, and they certainly didnt respect the game.


All good questions.....except the Animal House one......!!!

[jayhonk]

Home team coach (black) was a bit gruff and was wearing a NY Jet hat, so I chatted him up about the draft and Sanchez and he looked at me as though I had three heads. (Warning sign #2).
This is a huge red warning flag for me, now. One of the worst games I ever had was a team that, in short, cheated, lied, and played dirty. Before the game I go up and greet the coach and team with a "Hi, how's it going this morning? You guys ready to play?" And in return I get a death glare from the coach. WTF!?

I try to chat up each coach every game I do, just to establish a common ground of humanity. I figure it is worth about one and a half calls grace, before he starts the usual carping. But if the coach can't even acknowledge you, just undo the velcro on your pockets and get ready for the 'fun'.

[PVancouver]

Did blue play down 2 men the whole match?

Yes. And by the 80th minute everyone was walking.

I'm surprised you had as much of a game as you did.





I don't know why he would be shocked.

He thought he could pick it up again.

This partially explains why he used the tactic so often.






This seems a bit incongruous with the rest of the story.

Because the game was winding down and it was really at a walking pace by then with both teams running out the clock. And it was a tired tripping call, not done with any malice. That's why it was strange that this play set them all off.

When players get tired and frustrated, emotions and frustrations are more likely going to be expressed.




Where did the punch land, and what position did #2 play?

He punched the attacker in the back (apparently) and he was the right back. I found all of this out from the club administrator who was watching the match from the parents side closer to where the punch took place

I suspect that the attacker did something that instigated the punch.




Talked himself into a straight red "using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures"?

Yes. He said he was so angry that he wanted to hit someone.

I wouldn't give a red for this. If he was angry with you, I would characterize it as cautionable dissent. According to you, the one jerk player on blue was red carded. His team won easily, you handed out a bunch of cards, why was the goalkeeper angry?

[Rufusabc]

He was unbelievably insolent. And that someone he wanted to hit could very well have been me! He also had been yellow carded in the match as well.

[constructor]

I'm with you on this on Rufus, but I'll have to say that an alert AR will catch most of the crap going on behind your back as you move upfield with play. I've noticed ARs on my lines from time to time watching the play around the ball rather than keeping most of their attention on the area in front of them. If your ARs were paying attention, the crap wouldn't have gotten nearly as far as it did and you could have started weeding out the perps much earlier.

On the flip side of this coin, I have been on a line in a U18 boys match where I saw a defender punch an opposing player while the CR was headed back upfield. I flagged the foul, gave the "he's gotta go" sign, the CR came over and wanted an explanation of what happened. I told him the entire incident. He asked what I thought he should do, I pointed out that it was clearcut VC and should be dealt with as such. He went back out to the perp and gave a...... Yellow. This happened in the first 10 minutes of the match and things went downhill very, very quickly. It was one match where I was really looking for that final minute to be over.

[refmedic]

Back when I still played (10ish years ago) there was another team (U19B) who was very similar to this story that you are telling. They were a consistent problem, and some teams didn't even want to play against them. They were jerks, overly physical, liars, cheaters, and violent. We played them about 5 games into the season. By that time, they had been in a fight or brawl in every other game but 1. THe league had gotten involved in the situation (finally) and instructed the team that if their was another fight, or a red card, that the team was expelled from the league. Anyone on that team who got sent off could not play on another team once their team was expelled. At this point I was regularly working as an AR in pretty much any amateur league around and had 1 or 2 D3 Pro 4th's under my belt, so I was pretty familier with the upper-tier referees in my area. As we were warming up, I noticed the referee crew walking onto the field. The CR for that match was a very well respected, long-time National Referee who NEVER worked a youth game. He had been sent there on a mission. We played about 15 minutes, and 5 reds later, the match was abandoned. I found out many years later that it was a complete setup. The referee was sent there for the specific purpose of taking care of these guys, and knew the names nad numbers of the players who would be a problem, and if so, should be immediately sent off. As the league promised, the team was expelled, as well as all of the problem players. The rest of the team played on other clubs (including one on my team), and the rest of the season (my last as a player) was fantastic. Sometimes, even though it might not be technically right, things need to be done to take care of a problem. If the league and the assignor will not summarily expel this team from the league, then maybe they need to be set up (give them enough rope to hang themselves).

You don't need to be as drastic as they were, but your assignor could take care of this pretty easily in about 2 weeks. He needs to assign 4 (yes, including a 4th official) of his best referees (nationals and state 5/6/7's, or some VERY experienced 8's) available to this team with the instructions to not let them breathe, and if they so much as fart without permission, so smoke them. If it is handled properly, the players will get the message. If they want to play, they will change their behavior. If they don't care, they will get tossed, and everyone who does want to play will be all the better for it.

[falcon.7]

You don't need to be as drastic as they were, but your assignor could take care of this pretty easily in about 2 weeks. He needs to assign 4 (yes, including a 4th official) of his best referees (nationals and state 5/6/7's, or some VERY experienced 8's) available to this team with the instructions to not let them breathe, and if they so much as fart without permission, so smoke them. If it is handled properly, the players will get the message. If they want to play, they will change their behavior. If they don't care, they will get tossed, and everyone who does want to play will be all the better for it.

This reminds me of a story told to me by a member of a local HS board. There was a player who in the first 3 weeks of the season, through tackles, had broken 2 legs and ended the season of a third player. He was doing his damage after clearances when the two referees were ball-watching or looking upfield and so weren't watching behind their backs. All the fans saw it, but the officials were not trained to watch after the play.

After complaints and hearings, the coach was told that his games would now be getting officials who would be watching for this and would not hesitate to send his player off. Week 4 - player ejected within 15 minutes. Week 5 - suspension. Week 6 - player ejected within 30 minutes. No more weeks for player.

"Find the perpetrators and ELIMINATE THEM!"