The decline of Man Utd

[RobB]

The situation developing with Man U has happened before, numerous times in English football. It`s simply that the success Utd enjoyed was based mainy on three things. Being wealthier than every other team, spending the money wisely (for the most part) and and getting lucky with the youth team turning up gems. That`s what Liverpool did in the Eighties but Souness bought badly for three seasons at a time when key players were past their peaks and they couldn`t recover.
Man Utd`s signings this summer are crucial but maybe to much needs to be done in one summer. Make up for sales of Beckham and potentialy RVN, make up for missing out on Duff and Ronaldhino, make up for poor signings, Forlan, Djemba, Kleberson et al, make up lack of quality youth players, replace Giggs, Keane, Solskjaer AND close a possible 20 point gap with Arsenal. It could take two or three years by which time the knack of winning will be lost. Can it be done in one close season? If so who do you buy to do it?

[Frank Cunha]

you can buy the best central defender in the World, Ricardo Carvalho from Porto,

[Achtung]

Hmm, we seemed to find the "knack of winning" earlier this season even with our "poor signings". Arsenal's lead this season is more because of their form, rather than our lack thereof. I congratulate them for having one of the best seasons in English history, and maintain that we need minor changes, not an overhaul, to get back on top.

P.S. Can a mod please merge this thread with one of the other "time to panic" threads?

[bigtoga]

Originally posted by Achtung
Hmm, we seemed to find the "knack of winning" earlier this season even with our "poor signings". Arsenal's lead this season is more because of their form, rather than our lack thereof. I congratulate them for having one of the best seasons in English history, and maintain that we need minor changes, not an overhaul, to get back on top. The problem is that, even with Rio, Arsenal, IMO, would've overtaken us. As you said, Ach - ARSE are having a blinder. We haven't played that well for five years now...

[haven]

It's funny. I'm a huge pessimist among the supporters on this board. A lot of the posters here get on my back for my disgust with the club right now. But I'm amazed at the general pronoucement among non-United fans about the death of the empire.

SAF, I thought, was being quite disingenuous when he said that everything was fine until Rio went down. But it is very true that as long as Rio was there, the team was at or near the level of Arsenal.

A couple of good buys, further development of Ronaldo, even one of the other buys turning out half-ok... and poof! United are back in serious contention next year with better finances than Arsenal.

The team is having a bad season. They need a couple more players. But to say there's a crisis is away overblown.

[Panzo]

I agree, haven, but something that baffles me is Ferguson and his reactions to the problems that have come up. For example on his team selections, I simply don't understand his favoring of Fletcher. Any team can have dips in form and injury issues during a season but a manager with the resources that Ferguson has at his disposal probably shouldn't be giving so many minutes to a kid that might not even make the subs bench on a rival team.

And it's already been noted in previous threads that quite a few of his tactical maneuverings have backfired. It seems one of the biggest letdowns this season has been the manager's form, and that could be a bad sign for the future.

[RobB]

Well it`s not the time to panic, but this summers transfers are maybe more important than any previous seasons, partly to make up for mistakes last year. Most importantly though Utd`s recent success owed alot to the midfield of Keane, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham. That`s in the proccess of being replaced even if SAF doesnt realise it.
Steven Gerrard is a must in the summer so is someone like Ballack, Joe Cole could become understudy to Scholes, Robbie Keane would make a good partnership with any of your forwards, Craig Bellamy would be usefull squad player to replace Ole. Chelsea won`t sell Duff so Christian Ronaldo given the left side. A new defence built around Rio wouldn`t go amiss but I`d give Tim Howard another season.

[ZANI]

Rio or no Rio Man Utd would not have stopped Arsenal this season, because Arsenal don't loose a game this season. The thing is Arsenal have played together for a long time and they are in very high level of understanding each other.Man Utd line up is changing just as good as Chelsea and that is where the problem lies. It is not even that Arsenal are so good this season , it is just the team play that they got. However they have not really been tested with a good team this year yet . Let see when they meet Real Madrid.

[Achtung]

Originally posted by ZANI
Rio or no Rio Man Utd would not have stopped Arsenal this season, because Arsenal don't loose a game this season. The thing is Arsenal have played together for a long time and they are in very high level of understanding each other.Man Utd line up is changing just as good as Chelsea and that is where the problem lies. It is not even that Arsenal are so good this season , it is just the team play that they got. However they have not really been tested with a good team this year yet . Let see when they meet Real Madrid.

Good call, especially for a newbie. ;)

Arsenal have played very well this season, especially in the league, and even with Rio it seems unlikely that we would be able to catch them. They are getting through the CL too, but remember that they had their backs to the wall early on, and then got one of the easiest draws in Celta Vigo for the last round.

Arsenal's strength has been that they have great chemistry from being essentially the same squad for the past few years. Man United looked like they had it early in the season, but all the squad changes killed that. Chelsea haven't come together as well as expected either. But like I've been saying, give United some time to meld together, and the current crop could be extremely dangerous.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by Achtung
Good call, especially for a newbie. ;)

Arsenal have played very well this season, especially in the league, and even with Rio it seems unlikely that we would be able to catch them. They are getting through the CL too, but remember that they had their backs to the wall early on, and then got one of the easiest draws in Celta Vigo for the last round.

Arsenal's strength has been that they have great chemistry from being essentially the same squad for the past few years. Man United looked like they had it early in the season, but all the squad changes killed that. Chelsea haven't come together as well as expected either. But like I've been saying, give United some time to meld together, and the current crop could be extremely dangerous.

I disagree. For anybody to say that Arsenal would have not been affected by a hard challenge in the league by Manchester United, need look no further than last season, before passing complete judgement.

[RobB]

Originally posted by ZANI
However they have not really been tested with a good team this year yet . Let see when they meet Real Madrid.

I`m waiting for that game aswell, Inter being 3-0 up at half-time at Highbury earlier this season shows they are vunerable to good opposition. Plus the league and cup games between Utd and Arsenal in the next three weeks should be interesting.
Arsenal are far from the finished article anyway, they need a new centre-half to partner Campbell, a goalkeeper, a right-sided midfielder and a replacement for Bergkamp over the next 18 months. There`s a gap to close even if Arsenal stand still, which they won`t.

[Red Devil 106]

Now who knows... maybe Rio's leaving has had some kind of snowball effect... we might not have been in first, but we could have gotten closer. And I wouldn't exactly call this an "off-season" or think it's time for an overhaul... they're still a good 15 points ahead of Liverpool, and there's always next year.

[Motterman]

I wasn't going to clarify this, but I think I need to. When Rio's ban started we WERE in first place.

[billyho96]

Originally posted by Motterman
I wasn't going to clarify this, but I think I need to. When Rio's ban started we WERE in first place.

Wasn't Newcastle in first place on Boxing Day last year? Do you get something for that?

just kidding, don't pounce

[RobB]

Originally posted by Motterman
I wasn't going to clarify this, but I think I need to. When Rio's ban started we WERE in first place.

And then the season began for real. The first half of the season is jockeying for position then battle begins. Besides, have Man U become a one man team? The way the league is this year it`s impossible for any remotely good side to be lower than 3rd, Utd are still a good team, but not the best. That equals a decline. The midfield is on it`s way out and the defence is one Rio ban or injury away from a shambles.

[Rei de Boston]

Originally posted by RobB
And then the season began for real. The first half of the season is jockeying for position then battle begins. Besides, have Man U become a one man team? The way the league is this year it`s impossible for any remotely good side to be lower than 3rd, Utd are still a good team, but not the best. That equals a decline. The midfield is on it`s way out and the defence is one Rio ban or injury away from a shambles.

I agree with you about the first half of the season being less important than the second half. However, I disagree with you about Utd being in decline. Following your argument Utd was in decline with the end of the 2001/2002 season. Utd were not the best then either. To my way of thinking one year of down results cannot equall a decline in anything other than form. Multiple years of down form would equal a declining Utd. I don't see that happening.

[Acronym]

Originally posted by ZANI
Rio or no Rio Man Utd would not have stopped Arsenal this season, because Arsenal don't loose a game this season. The thing is Arsenal have played together for a long time and they are in very high level of understanding each other.Man Utd line up is changing just as good as Chelsea and that is where the problem lies. It is not even that Arsenal are so good this season , it is just the team play that they got. However they have not really been tested with a good team this year yet . Let see when they meet Real Madrid.

I gotta disagree dude, ManUtd were 3 points clear in Jan, and had the best defensive record. Also if Ruud would of hit that penalty they would of lost at OT. But still they play nice footy you know. The main thing when i see teams play them, is the stand-off and watch mentality and lets awe at Henry crap. I think they only have 3 world class players; Henry, Viera, and Pires.

I blame the FA :P

[ZANI]

You are right they only got three or four outstanding players and the rest of their squad would not even make a bench at AC Milan or Real Madrid. But they got the team play.When you don't loose a whole season a team that looses a minimum of three games a season (Man Utd) just can not catch up with you.
All in all I am dying to see that Kolo- Campbell defence stopping super Ron and Master Poacher Raul. Not to mention Zidane.

[Jayhawk]

It could be that Sir Alex has lost his talent-spotting touch, but it's early to tell. Remember, all of the players he signed over the summer are all under 25. They may turn out to be brilliant in a couple of years. Christiano Ronaldo seems to have a great deal of potential, though someone should tell him to quit doing that stepover thing every single freakin' time he touches the ball.
As for the signings we missed out on, that is largely due to United's unwillingness to spend at the level of Real Madrid et al, which is probably a healthy instinct in the long run.

[Acronym]

Originally posted by Jayhawk
It could be that Sir Alex has lost his talent-spotting touch, but it's early to tell. Remember, all of the players he signed over the summer are all under 25. They may turn out to be brilliant in a couple of years. Christiano Ronaldo seems to have a great deal of potential, though someone should tell him to quit doing that stepover thing every single freakin' time he touches the ball.
As for the signings we missed out on, that is largely due to United's unwillingness to spend at the level of Real Madrid et al, which is probably a healthy instinct in the long run.

dude he hardly does it anymore, only a quick one then boom ball comes in. Hes been the best thing to arrive at Manyoo for ages, hes earned his name on my shirt. He ran Mancity ragged, even the Citeh supporters, were screaming to get 3 men on him. Shame that goal didnt go in; an amazing shot with zero backlift and hits the bar :(

I wouldnt worry too much about step-overs, hes very quick feet, so it's not a problem, and he's only 18/19. Buckham David was still on-loan to Preston at that time. Wait for the wonder goals to come.. woot woot