Who's to go in the summer clear out?

[Dark Savante]

Right, whilst I'm not of the view that MAn U is a club in crisis( we are having bad luck and a loss of confidence not a crisis) I do feel that one thing this season has proved is that some players at Man U aren't good enough.

There's only so much rope you can give a player before he hangs himself with it and i beleive some players have snapped their own necks in Fergie's eyes.

My question is who do you feel should be 'kindly asked to leave' the club in this close season and at the very least who of the 1st teamers should become squaddies and not starters?

[Dark Savante]

I've gone for Phil Neville, Gary Neville Diego Forlan, Quinton Fortune and Nicky Butt. These guys have never truly made the grade at Man U but Fergie stuck with them because of their heart and passion not for any ability they display on the pitch but resillience.

Kleberson and Djemba Djemba aren't as bad technically as either Butt or P.N and Djemba has heart and Kleberson has more finesse so I see no reason for them to be at O.T next year.

Gary Neville has never impressed me outside of Euro 96 he's been a medicore, yet consistent R.B whose abilit was often masked by the superb talent around him and especially with Beckham in front all he ever had to do was lay the ball off to the Quarter Back and see it fly 60 yards across the pitch. Now that he doesn't have such an easy way out of trouble with the unpredicatble Ronaldo in front of him his worth to the team dimnishes even more a team of Man U's standing should be looking for the best RB's in the world and Neville is most certainly not that.

Diego Forlan clearly isn't going to make the grade. He's average at everything except scoring the odd spectacular goal. Often the attack falls apart when the ball comes his way and he messes up a 20 pass maneuvuere or something. Next season we need to be clinical and ruthless and Forlan doesn't fit the mould for me in any way, shape or form. The step down in class from VNR or even Saha to him is too much for a club like United.

Quinton Fortune is a squaddie at best. He has the passion and the heart but he is wild on the pitch and of a low technical ability. He is not a worthy understudy for Giggs and he concedes far to many fouls for the opposition. If he had the skills to go with his fire he'd be A-1 Man U material, unfortunately, he does not.

I didn't put any of this seasons new buys in because it is in no way fair to judge them off the back of a handful of appearances and whilst most are trying to adjust to life in a new country. Not even Bellion deserves his critcs yet. Any or all of them could still go on to be diamonds for United which none of the players I've personally went for ever will do.

NOTE: the poll is mulit choice so you can vote for more than one player.

[comme]

Well you certainly will have too many central midfielders next season. With the arrival of Miller it will take your centre mids to 7 (Scholes, Keane, Butt, Kleberson, Dj-Dj, P Neville). The problem is that you have actually bought inferior players this season. P Neville was outstanding in the first half of the season and Butt has been a consistently good performer.

Fergie sold two superstars (three if you consider the way he sidelined Barthez) and brought in young, inexperienced players who he hoped would progress.

If you sell G Neville who will you buy? Salgado is contracted, Puyol is expensive, Thuram is old, Cafu is old. There is no-one out there for you.

[Dark Savante]

Originally posted by comme
Well you certainly will have too many central midfielders next season. With the arrival of Miller it will take your centre mids to 7 (Scholes, Keane, Butt, Kleberson, Dj-Dj, P Neville). The problem is that you have actually bought inferior players this season. P Neville was outstanding in the first half of the season and Butt has been a consistently good performer.

Good performers in linear roles yes, certainly. When anything more is asked of either Butt or P.N i.e get the abll and then do something with it.. they strugle badly. With Man U edging closer to a 4-4-2 we cannot afford to have such players in the 1st team because the flow of the system will be a mess. Miller should not be thrown straight in with the lions straight away and Kleberson, Djemba Djemba and hopefully a new world class Mid should all be given the chances to display what they can do next season.

Originally posted by comme

If you sell G Neville who will you buy? Salgado is contracted, Puyol is expensive, Thuram is old, Cafu is old. There is no-one out there for you.

A forty year old Thuram would be better then Neville ever could be! I would much rather bring Thuram in for a season or two then persevere with Neville. A team of Man U's resources can easily find better right backs than Gary Neville - The dutch League is probably the best place to go for good quality cheap emerging right backs who could be no worse than Gary Neville on a good day!

[doubletrouble]

i think we should no doubt get rid of Diego Forlan , Gary Neville and Wesley Brown

[Dark Savante]

:( Ok, Forget about what I said about Fortune. Poor guy is out for at least a year!

I wouldn't wish that on him, but the the problem with Fortune just seems to have ruled itself out..we have no choice but to get someone in for him now!

[Motterman]

Who voted to sell Fletcher?

He's gotten a fair run of games over other players and the few times he's played his natural position, he's done really well. He's too young to give up on, considering we blooded him so much this season....

[comme]

The man to ditch is Wes Brown, he has been laughable since his return from injury and is neither one thing nor the other. He is not comfortable on the ball like Ferdinand nor strong like Campbell. He should be ejected pronto.

[Dark Savante]

Originally posted by Motterman
Who voted to sell Fletcher?

He's gotten a fair run of games over other players and the few times he's played his natural position, he's done really well. He's too young to give up on, considering we blooded him so much this season....

exactly.

He also is an excellent passer of the ball. He looks like he has potential, but he is clearly a middle of the park man and not a wide one. Until he's given time in his proper position I don't even think we can judge him at all, regardless of the season he's in.

[Dark Savante]

Originally posted by comme
The man to ditch is Wes Brown, he has been laughable since his return from injury and is neither one thing nor the other. He is not comfortable on the ball like Ferdinand nor strong like Campbell. He should be ejected pronto.

I am suprised you would be so harsh! Wes came back from serious injury straight into a 1st team suffering poor form, even if they were getting the results it was not through good footy but resilience. Alot of things went wrong at that time and Wes is only just getting his fitness back. I think it is unfair to put blame on him when he was rusty and unfit coming back and never had a stable CB partner. Being thrown straight in at the deep end did him no favours and destroyed a fragile confidence.

I wouldn't judge Wes until he has proper run in a stable team whilst being fit. Personally of course :)

[comme]

I didn't rate him before the injury either, he always looks hurried and as if he is about to make a mistake. If you give away one goal a game as a centre half it is just unacceptable. Strikers can miss 10 chances if they score a goal a game but defenders need to be concentrating all the time.

To be fair Ferdinand was just the same before he joined Leeds but I always felt he had potential given his skill on the ball. The same cannot be said of Brown.

[Father Ted]

Originally posted by Dark Savante
I am suprised you would be so harsh! Wes came back from serious injury straight into a 1st team suffering poor form, even if they were getting the results it was not through good footy but resilience. Alot of things went wrong at that time and Wes is only just getting his fitness back. I think it is unfair to put blame on him when he was rusty and unfit coming back and never had a stable CB partner. Being thrown straight in at the deep end did him no favours and destroyed a fragile confidence.

I wouldn't judge Wes until he has proper run in a stable team whilst being fit. Personally of course :)

Any time I see Brown's name in the line up I get the shakes. When was the last time we held a side scoreless? Northampton Town in the FA Cup! Exit Rio, enter Brown. Fit or not, Brown has been horrific and it has spread to the rest of the team.

[Dark Savante]

Lol, I take on board the points about Brown, he's never looked like a solid defender. He has never been given a fair run in the team alongside someone like Ferdinand though. He's always thrown in at the deep end and crucified for his msitakes, that's the reason he always looks so edgy and uncomfortable - people are always waiting to slaughter the poor guy.

I can bet you this. If Brown is sold and plays for another team in the EPL he will prove to be a good defender. As long as he is given a good run in a stable team he will relax and play with the confidence of someone who Fergie saw enough potential in to make him come into the 1st team squad from the youth ranks.

He'd have been dropped like Chadwick and Higginbotham and a whole host of others if he was THAT bad. Wes just looks like he is blighted by:

- always coming or returning from one injury lay off to another, so he's never properly fit.

- never paired with the better CB when the team is actually doing well. Makes him look far, far worse then he is.

I can't argue that he hasn't been atrocious this year, but I see the reason why that has happened and I don't blame the player 100% like some do.

[Potomac Red Devil]

Originally posted by Motterman
Who voted to sell Fletcher?

He's gotten a fair run of games over other players and the few times he's played his natural position, he's done really well. He's too young to give up on, considering we blooded him so much this season....

He shouldn't be sold, but he shouldn't play ahead of Kleberson (or D^2 for that matter) either. If SAF cannot get that straight, then sell Fletcher, by all means.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by Potomac Red Devil
He shouldn't be sold, but he shouldn't play ahead of Kleberson (or D^2 for that matter) either. If SAF cannot get that straight, then sell Fletcher, by all means.

Kleberson has played well in his limited appearances for the club this season. I don't know why he isn't being picked for more first team action. Could there possibly be a legitimate reason, that we are not aware of, that he's not getting more first team minutes, other than Ferguson picking Fletcher simply because he's Scottish? :rolleyes:

[Potomac Red Devil]

Originally posted by Motterman
Kleberson has played well in his limited appearances for the club this season. I don't know why he isn't being picked for more first team action. Could there possibly be a legitimate reason, that we are not aware of, that he's not getting more first team minutes, other than Ferguson picking Fletcher simply because he's Scottish? :rolleyes:

Oh there might be. His new contract probably has something to do with it too. And I've never really made the claim that it was Fletcher's heritage (but others have).

But what we do know is that we are losing games with Fletcher in the lineup. And we also know that Kleberson was good, at times brilliant, when he played in central midfield earlier in the year. Better than Fletcher, certainly.

You are right, Motterman. We do have limited data points to make a comparison. But the ones we do have point to more time for Kleberson and D^2.

[comme]

Who is voting for Keane (I did as a joke)? Seriously unless people are joking it is ridiculousto question Keane who is still the best central midfielder in the world and has been dominant this season. Keane may not be the force he was in 1999 (as Hugh McIllvanney said, I've never seen such determination professional sport), but he is still probably United's best player.

[Coach_McGuirk]

I voted for other. Wiltord and Kanu are definetely gone, and Keown and Parlour may retire.

Oh, wait, you meant United?? My bad.

Umm, if you're a United fan, vote for Forlan. If you're an Arsenal fan, then, Keane should go. It would make our lives so much easier if Keane left! ;)

[johno]

I know this sounds like blasphemy, but Scholes' lack of defensive capability will stop us from playing the 4-4-2 unless Keane is replaced...

so its either Scholes or Keane... or both... personally I think we could manage without Scholes, on the basis that we have Kleberson who did well in his stead, and that we also have 2 capable strikers instead of just one, and that Klebs might not score as many as Paul, but he might create as many...

I'm not saying Scholes is not great, I'm not saying Keane is not great... they are just no longer great together... not without another player in there... like a Kleberson perhaps or a Butt, the only problem is that we now have 2 great strikers... so unless we play a 4-5-1 in Europe and the 4-4-2 in EPL or depending on our opposition, I think we have a problem...

Scholes, could fetch alot of coin, I would think. Keane is still good, but he does not have much time left...

Either we land as Motter put it, Roy Keane Jr. or we do something with Scholes, because we cannot have 2 central mids if one is incompetant in defense... not in today's game... not if we want to be successful against good teams and in Europe... If we had a real destroyer, like Davids, or Gattuso, we could get away with Scholes, because those guys cover ground like Keano used to, but he cant anymore...


That said, I voted for Butt, Phil and Forlan...

I think that SAF realized our weakness and thats why he played the 4-5-1...

its funny... now that I think about it... Beckham would have been perfect to partner Keane in central midfield... wow, small world huh...

[Achtung]

Hmm, seven votes (so far) for Keane, but only two non-United fan posters have replied in here? Who are the other five? Show yourselves at once! :)

And that's probably too many votes for Fletcher so early in his career. I'm not a huge fan of his, but he has hardly gotten enough playing time to show off his stuff.

I voted Forlan, Fortune, and Butt. They are class overall, but would probably be better fits elsewhere. It's a shame, cause they all seem like quality guys, but if you can't cut it at OT, you have to be let go.