Draft of Drafts

[Dark Savante]

Oh..I don't agree, and all we have to do is look at the 1974 Final. What did Cryuff do on the most important day that he would ever wear a Holland shirt; when he had with him the better team? Well, I say he choked. He let himself get taken out of the game both in mind and body-do I need to post the clip of him complaining to the ref like a baby at half-time? The Kaiser...well, he just helped the lads lift the trophy. He scores higher on this-his leadership qualities are superior to Cryuffs; Cryuff's more a manifestation of his physical ability, which I think was better than Beckenbauer's.

Thank god we also have Baresi to keep our "leader" in line

Ouch! And ouch! again, lol. Controversial, but as you're on my team and we are arguing over nothing in particular I'm going to cease fire :D. We should conitnue this debate another time Mr. Ray ;)

[Dark Savante]

Well he wasn't, but I was too late to put in an opinion :D

Wouldn't have made a difference though.

As I said, he was unanimous :p

[Ombak]

Bet you've all been waiting huh?

With the second pick in the draft of drafts Team A (Ombak, Motterman, skipshady, argentine soccer fan) select Bobby Moore.

TEAM A
Ombak, skipshady, Motterman, argentine soccer fan

Round: 2 (Week 2)
Selection: 2
10th overall pick

Player: Bobby Moore

Position: Central Defense

Career Span: 60’s – 70’s
Nationality: English.
Caps: 108 (all starts), 2 goals.
Club Teams: West Ham United

Profile / Stats:

Captained England’s World Cup winning-team and was there in 1970 as well, exchanging shirts with Pelé who called him: “one of the world's finest defenders and a great sportsman”

Also captained England to a third-place finish in the 1968 European championships.

For West Ham United he won the FA Cup in 64 and the Cup-Winners Cup in 1965

Bobby Moore will anchor our defense although he could also play on the left.. On Monday we will reveal our first forward.

This selection: Unanimous.

Our team so far:

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/moore2.jpg

[tpmazembe]

Bet you've all been waiting huh?

With the second pick in the draft of drafts Team A (Ombak, Motterman, skipshady, argentine soccer fan) select Bobby Moore.

TEAM A
Ombak, skipshady, Motterman, argentine soccer fan

Round: 2 (Week 2)
Selection: 2
10th overall pick

Player: Bobby Moorehttp://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/moore2.jpg

Damn you.....I was hoping he would fall under the radar until 4th round.

That pick was worth the wait. Classy defender.

Now that becks, moore, baresi, and passarella are gone (that would have been my order amongst them), is there anyone left to anchor our D? [facetiously]

[Spartak]

Now that becks, moore, baresi, and passarella are gone (that would have been my order amongst them), is there anyone left to anchor our D? [facetiously]
Martin Keown is still available. Ahh, damn, I forgot were not supposed to mention players' names until they are picked. Crap, now your sure to pick him :mad: ;)

[argentine soccer fan]

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/moore2.jpg

You gotta love the picture. Pele and Moore in the same team. And you aint seen nothin' yet from team A. Pack it up, guys, our team is going to be unbeatable!:D

[tpmazembe]

ASF, you do have a good tandem, but don't count your chickens.

1st-2nd Round Re-cap:

TEAM A : Pele(1), Moore (10)
TEAM B : Maradona (2), Passarella (9)
TEAM C : DiStefano (3), Garrincha (8)
TEAM D : Cryuff (4), Baresi (7)
TEAM E : Beckenbauer (5), Puskas (6)

I'm surprised at how many defenders were picked so early. Just goes to show that although we get enamored with offensive prowess, BS illuminati have an eye for the solid defender as well.

[argentine soccer fan]

You gotta love the picture. Pele and Moore in the same team. And you aint seen nothin' yet from team A. Pack it up, guys, our team is going to be unbeatable!:D

PS: I wanted to add that Pele and Moore did play together in the same team, for Moore's farewell match back in 76. If my memory is correct, it was an NASL all-star team. Ironically, they were playing against England.

[tpmazembe]

:confused: Fellow BS Posters.

The Draft of Drafts thread is getting a lot of "views", but very little commentary/participation from the BS population not directly involved in the selection process.

Although we chose to restrict the number of selectors to make the process manageable, this excercise was never meant to be exclusionary in nature.

Please feel free to add your thoughts on the players selected, the unfolding process, etc. It would be informative for all.

cheers.

[Dark Savante]

ASF, you do have a good tandem, but don't count your chickens.

1st-2nd Round Re-cap:

TEAM A : Pele(1), Moore (10)
TEAM B : Maradona (2), Passarella (9)
TEAM C : DiStefano (3), Garrincha (8)
TEAM D : Cryuff (4), Baresi (7)
TEAM E : Beckenbauer (5), Puskas (6)

I'm surprised at how many defenders were picked so early. Just goes to show that although we get enamored with offensive prowess, BS illuminati have an eye for the solid defender as well.

Are you really surprised? It is always going to be a fact in football that there will be more top class offensive players then defensive ones. It seems like perfect logic to me that 4/5 :p went for a top class CB/Libero before others got to them. I mean for all the attacking flair these teams will have if you don't have a true orchestrator at the back you're doing your team a disservice..imo of course :D ..and with the attacking flair these attackers will provide, defenses will need to be as organised and marshalled as possible! The draft is going to turn from maybe this round or the next into something a helluva lot more non uniform than it has been..that's when the games will begin.hmmm.

[argentine soccer fan]

Are you really surprised? It is always going to be a fact in football that there will be more top class offensive players then defensive ones. It seems like perfect logic to me that 4/5 :p went for a top class CB/Libero before others got to them. I mean for all the attacking flair these teams will have if you don't have a true orchestrator at the back you're doing your team a disservice..imo of course :D ..and with the attacking flair these attackers will provide, defenses will need to be as organised and marshalled as possible! The draft is going to turn from maybe this round or the next into something a helluva lot more non uniform than it has been..that's when the games will begin.hmmm.

I was a bit surprised too. I wanted a top defensive player, but I thought most teams would pick creative midfielders and goalscorers first. I even speculated that Beckembauer might be avaliable for our second pick, which shows how wrong I was. I figure players of the characteristics of Puskas and Garrincha (to mention only the ones that were picked, but there are still a few left at that level of talent) would go before the defenders. But I guess it shows the wisdom of the Bigsoccer posters, the awareness that to build a team you need a defensive leader. (Unless you are Brazil of 58-70, of course.)

But I don't think we can be accused of favoring defensive play. Look at who was picked. These players were defenders but they also started attacks, scored goals, and had the opposing goal in their heart. Especially Beckenbauer and Passarella, but I think also Bobby Moore. I think Baresi was the only one of the group who was more of the traditional 'stay at home' tactical defender. (And a great one at that, I don't mean to start that debate again).

[Dark Savante]

I was a bit surprised too. I wanted a top defensive player, but I thought most teams would pick creative midfielders and goalscorers first. I even speculated that Beckembauer might be avaliable for our second pick, which shows how wrong I was. I figure players of the characteristics of Puskas and Garrincha (to mention only the ones that were picked, but there are still a few left at that level of talent) would go before the defenders. But I guess it shows the wisdom of the Bigsoccer posters, the awareness that to build a team you need a defensive leader. (Unless you are Brazil of 58-70, of course.)

But I don't think we can be accused of favoring defensive play. Look at who was picked. These players were defenders but they also started attacks, scored goals, and had the opposing goal in their heart. Especially Beckenbauer and Passarella, but I think also Bobby Moore. I think Baresi was the only one of the group who was more of the traditional 'stay at home' tactical defender. (And a great one at that, I don't mean to start that debate again).

I agree totally. Without foundations the house will collapse. hmmmm....

I think the teams will start to take a particular shape after about 4 picks, then we'll know how each team favours builiding their team. I know who I want next but of course he may be taken or I may be out voted so we'll see.

[Excape Goat]

To be honest, I wanted Beckenbauer on my team because I believed he was the best player left on the draft. I knew comme wanted Barsei, but everyone else on my team wanted the Kaiser. To me, Beckenbauer put German football on the map and Germany is the second most successful NT in the world. He also changed the way the game was played. His place in history alone should be picked ahead of many players.

I actually thought that he would have a slim chance to be picked ahead of Cruyff or DiStefano.

[Auriaprottu]

It is always going to be a fact in football that there will be more top class offensive players then defensive ones.

I won't disagree with this statement off the bat, but I'm wondering how we can (although we do, obviously) put players with distinctly different responsibilities in the same category and compare them. Do you think there really is a difference in class -possibly the result of players with greater skill on the ball being assigned to attacking positions at an early stage in their development- or is this a case of attacking (shooting, dribbling, heading, free kicks) skills receiving more attention than defending (tackling, positioning, reading, containment) skills from all of us who play/study the Game? I readily concede a talent gulf between attackers and defenders among the rank and file professionals, but I'm not so sure about the top level. Could Pele's clone, placed on the back line, battle him to a stalemate? I doubt it.

[argentine soccer fan]

I won't disagree with this statement off the bat, but I'm wondering how we can (although we do, obviously) put players with distinctly different responsibilities in the same category and compare them. Do you think there really is a difference in class -possibly the result of players with greater skill on the ball being assigned to attacking positions at an early stage in their development- or is this a case of attacking (shooting, dribbling, heading, free kicks) skills receiving more attention than defending (tackling, positioning, reading, containment) skills from all of us who play/study the Game? I readily concede a talent gulf between attackers and defenders among the rank and file professionals, but I'm not so sure about the top level. Could Pele's clone, placed on the back line, battle him to a stalemate? I doubt it.

I think the reason that there are more players considered all-time great in midfield and attack is not that the attackers and midfielders are much more talented than the defenders. I think it is because it is easier for a good offensive player to distinguish himself and be considered an all-time great.

For a good defensive player to be enough of a difference maker to be considered one of the all-time greatest, he has to be not only great at his position, but truly a great leader, and there are only a handful of those.

[tpmazembe]

I think the reason that there are more players considered all-time great in midfield and attack is not that the attackers and midfielders are much more talented than the defenders. I think it is because it is easier for a good offensive player to distinguish himself and be considered an all-time great.

For a good defensive player to be enough of a difference maker to be considered one of the all-time greatest, he has to be not only great at his position, but truly a great leader, and there are only a handful of those.
True. Goals and assists are a very objective measure.....goals avoided, or potential offensive actions blunted are impossible to measure.

But Auriaprottu brings up a great point about technical ability and the "steering" of youngsters to certain positions. Other than in Italy perhaps -- were they have the greatest appreciation for defensive prowess -- would you not say that the most gifted youngsters tend to be shepparded towards the offensive third of the field? If that is true, then it would clearly explain why more all-time greats are forwards.

[argentine soccer fan]

I am not sure if something is keeping Ombak from posting. He posted our pick on our private thread this morning, but not here.

[Ombak]

I am not sure if something is keeping Ombak from posting. He posted our pick on our private thread this morning, but not here.
Sorry about that guys, asf, if that ever happens again, go ahead and cut and paste my post and post t here. I did not post at 3pm as usual and though I was online afterwards I was busy at work. Just got home now after dinner at a friend's place. Pick coming up.

[Ombak]

With apologies for the delay:

TEAM A
Ombak, skipshady, argentine soccer fan, Motterman

Round: 3 (Week 3)
Selection: 3
11th overall pick

Player: Eusebio

Position: Forward

Career Span: 60’s – 70’s
Nationality: Portuguese.
Caps: 77, 41 goals.
Club Teams: Benfica

Profile / Stats:
Eusebio is best-known internationally for his 1966 World Cup, leading Portugal to 3rd place with 9 goals.

For Benfica, Eusebio played on 10 championship winning sides and won 5 cups, always ending the season as top-scorer from 1964-1973.

Eusebio was not the first name to come up as we thought of forwards, but he quickly became our first-choice. Hard to beat someone who was Europe's golden boot winner twice and led his league in scoring 10 years in a row! In his only World Cup he averaged 1.5 goals per game.

This selection: Unanimous.

Our team so far:

Moore, Pelé, Eusebio.

[Bauser]

TEAM B:

Active team members: Bauser (c), Auriaprottu, Papa Bouba Diop

Round: 3 (Week 3)
Selection: 2
Cumulative: 12

Player: GERHARD MÜLLER, aka (Der Bomber)

Position: Center forward / Mittelstürmer

Career Span: 1963-1982
Nationality: German
Born: 3rd November 1945
Caps/goals: 62 / 68
Clubs: TSV Nördlingen (childhood-1964), Bayern Munich (1964-79), Fort Lauderdale Strikers (1979-81), Smith Brothers Lounge (1981-82).

Profile / Stats: [National team level]: World Cup winner 1974 (matchwinner in the final), European Championship winner 1972, World Cup topscorer 1970 (10 goals) / all time topscorer (14 goals). [Club level]: Bundesliga winner 1969, 72, 73, 74 / Topscorer 7 seasons & all-time topscorer - German Cup winner 1966, 67, 69, 71 - European Cup winner 1974, 75, 76 - Intercontinental Cup winner 1967 - Cupwinners' Cup winner 1967. European Footballer of the Year 1970.

Team B adds arguably the world's best ever penaltybox player to our starting line-up. Gerd Müller, the all-time World Cup and Bundesliga topscorer, is given the center forward position. He scored 649 goals in 731 competitive matches in his career and won basically every honour possible. Müller had an uncanny ability to get his toe to all crosses into the penalty-area and make goalkeepers frustrated with his quick movements and expert positioning being in the right place at the right time way too often for their liking. Although not a great dribbler his low center of gravity helped him a great deal in operating inside the penalty area against usually bigger defenders who had a hard time following his adept footwork getting away from his markers at the exact right time to connect with passes into the box. Der Bomber was the master of doing the most important thing in football and is therefore added to our team.

TEAM SO FAR: Maradona (M/F), Passarella (CD), G.Müller (F).