Draft of Drafts

[kopiteinkc]

I'm a little surprised Carlos Alberto didn't make any of the teams.

Me too.

[minorthreat]

Could anyone justify Luis Suarez, Omar Sivori or Ladislao Kubala in any of the teams? I would certainly rank them amongst the best but I really can't find anyone for them to replace.It depends on who you ask, but Suarez is considered by many to be the greatest Spanish-born player ever. I would put it as a toss-up between him and Zamora - and I'm a Real Madrid fan. They were just that good.

[Excape Goat]

I'm a little surprised Carlos Alberto didn't make any of the teams. Also, what about Leonidas? He may have been mentioned.

I would have lobbied Carlos Alberto for the rightback. I considered him one of the best three in the game. We did not want him because we had Roberto Carlos on our leftside. We wanted a stay back defender. So we picked Thuram. I am disappointed that he was not chosen.

How does people rate Rivelino? I thought that he would go in the first three round. I mentioned his name several times in my thread, but never generated a response. I considered him the best left-sided player in the history of the game. I rated him as one of best 3 to 4 Brazilian players ever.

[Real Ray]

How does people rate Rivelino? I thought that he would go in the first three round. I mentioned his name several times in my thread, but never generated a response. I considered him the best left-sided player in the history of the game. I rated him as one of best 3 to 4 Brazilian players ever.
When we were at that last stage, trying to pick a left-mid player, I made my case for three players: Overath, Finney and Rivelino. The only knock on Rivelino is that he did very little (in terms of trophies) at the club level. But in the Brasil shirt he was super.

Another player I was curious to see if people debated was Claudio Gentile. His reputation as a hardman may have turned people off; not as skilled as the backs picked. But he was a reuglar on the Italian team for quite a stretch, and considering the number of flair players in the draft...IMO an occasional whack might not be such a bad thing ;)

I agree with the poster who noted that the Poles from the 70'-80's where left behind. And for a midfield that is seen as such a high point in football, Giresse, Tigana, and Fernandez could not find a place somewhere. I wonder if any of these guys where talked about filling a particular niche. As wonderful a player Platini was, these guys were pretty damn good as well.

And wasn't comme supposed to tell us how Ray Clemence, Peter Shilton, and Pat Jennings were all better than Gordon Banks...:)

[Dark Savante]

Of Alfredo Di Stefano:

He was born in Barracas, a poor suburb of Buenos Aires, learning his football skills on the tough city streets and on the family farm later in his childhood. As a player he possessed remarkable stamina and determination, and was a most imposing figure on the pitch despite him being just 172cm tall and weighing 70kg. He made his debut at the age of 18 with River Plate playing as a right-winger, but always wanted to be a centre forward. He returned to River Plate in that role after a loan period with Huracan, and applied his devastating attacking skills to the national team that won the 1947 South American Championship.

----

Is this true that he was 172cm tall :o I've been doing further research and this is the first time I've actually got a height and weight data about him. 172cm tall????? just an inch or so taller than MAradona and the same height as Pele???

If it is true I am amazed. I always had him down as about 5'10-6ft tall, wow!

This would mean that the top 5 attacking players of all time are all a similar height and weight.

Pele
Maradona
Garrincha
Di Stefano

It makes me wonder if he could 'power play' against someone like Desailly that's for sure!

[Excape Goat]

Another player I was curious to see if people debated was Claudio Gentile. His reputation as a hardman may have turned people off; not as skilled as the backs picked. But he was a reuglar on the Italian team for quite a stretch, and considering the number of flair players in the draft...IMO an occasional whack might not be such a bad thing ;)

I agree with the poster who noted that the Poles from the 70'-80's where left behind.




1) Everyone on our team made a list of 5 players for each position whom　they thought were the top 5 in their position. I believed Gentile was mentioned a few times, but we really did not discuss much about him.

2) We almost pick Lato for one of my subs. I ended with the deciding vote. I was thinking of Lato or Rummenigge. I opted for Rummenigge because he has accomplished more as player. He was three time Bundesliga scoring champion and won European Player of the Year twice. We needed a winger and a scorer. Rummenigge was both. So I wnet for the safer pick. Furthermore, I rated Boniek higher than Lato. If I have chosen Lato, I would have brought up Boniek in his place.

[nicephoras]

As far as Carlos Alberto, he was my first choice for the right side after D.Santos was gone. I like laterals who attack. But when we picked wingers like Mathews and Gento it sort of eliminated the possibility of attacking laterals for our team, and we decided to go with a better marker like Berti Vogts.

I've always been a huge Carlos Alberto fan, and practically have him even with Djalma Santos.
Part of the problem with this draft, of course, is that players need to be put into position, so some aren't picked. There's something to be said for a cohesive whole rather than a gaggle of talented players.

Its been a very interesting exercise regardless.

[tpmazembe]

I've always been a huge Carlos Alberto fan, and practically have him even with Djalma Santos.C.Alberto was class going forward, but not quite the defensive/offensive combo of a Djalma. Frankly, other than Djalma (and my boy Amoros from a purely personal bias here), I would not have found it strange for any of LBs picked to be left out.

As further example of the higher competition on the LB side, I submit to you that as a pure talent Junior was the equal of C.Alberto.....did any of the selection teams discuss Junior as a potential LB for their squads
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No love on the Coluna nomination, anyone?

[nicephoras]

C.Alberto was class going forward, but not quite the defensive/offensive combo of a Djalma. Frankly, other than Djalma (and my boy Amoros from a purely personal bias here), I would not have found it strange for any of LBs picked to be left out.

As further example of the higher competition on the LB side, I submit to you that as a pure talent Junior was the equal of C.Alberto.....did any of the selection teams discuss Junior as a potential LB for their squads
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No love on the Coluna nomination, anyone?

Well - I look at it this way. If Roberto Carlos gets picked, Carlos Alberto deserves it. I feel he was as good going forward and better defensively to boot. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Coluna to discuss it intelligently. As for Junior - I disagree. I don't rate him as highly as I do Carlos Alberto.

Who, I should note, received a vote for FIFA player of the year several years ago :)

[Dark Savante]

Is the Di Stefano height thing true? :confused:

[Excape Goat]

----



This would mean that the top 5 attacking players of all time are all a similar height and weight.

Pele
Maradona
Garrincha
Di Stefano

It makes me wonder if he could 'power play' against someone like Desailly that's for sure!

If you expanded the list to top 8, Puskus and Muller were not too big either.....

[argentine soccer fan]

1) Everyone on our team made a list of 5 players for each position whom　they thought were the top 5 in their position. I believed Gentile was mentioned a few times, but we really did not discuss much about him.


We considered Gentile. I am sure Maradona, Zico, and Platini have umpleasant memories of Gentile, and would be glad that he was not picked.:D

Gentile might possibly replace my paisano Ruggeri on team B. One hack replaced by an even bigger hack. What do you guys think?

[argentine soccer fan]

Is the Di Stefano height thing true? :confused:

After some quick research, I found a site that has Di Stefano at 1.78m and 74 kgms. That would translate to about 5'10, and about 162-163 lbs. I don't know how acurate this site is.

www.geocities.com/dbalceda/distefano/

[Dark Savante]

If you expanded the list to top 8, Puskus and Muller were not too big either.....

I think the amount of players over 6ft in this draft can be counted on two hands :D

[Dark Savante]

After some quick research, I found a site that has Di Stefano at 1.78m and 74 kgms. That would translate to about 5'10, and about 162-163 lbs. I don't know how acurate this site is.

www.geocities.com/dbalceda/distefano/

That is what I personally figured he was. around 5'10 or so.. now I'm all confused.. lol

[Martin Cutler]

In pictures and videos I've seen of DiStefano, I'd say he's about 1.78m or 5'10".

I always thought Allen Hansen was one of the best defenders I've seen play and my team considered him as a defender. I think he and Souness from those great Liverpool teams both could have found a way onto one of these teams in this "draft". In fact i could see both slotting in for Ruggieri and Deschamps, who were in my opinion, the two biggest surprises of this draft. I can see Deschamps' selection more than Ruggieri's. That pick absolutely blew me away as I don't thin he'd even make a team of the best players from either the 80's or early 90's when he played much less an all time team of the ages.

tpmazembe mentioned Mario Coluna and I think that's a great pick and a player who hasn't been previously recognized here. In fact if I were to nominate replacements for players selected in this draft I'd rate Coluna ahead of Souness as the ideal replacement for Deschamps. Hansen would be my pick instead of Ruggieri (they played pretty much the same time and Hansen was always considered the better player).

I'll leave it to the Liverpool fans to debate if Keegan or Dalglish was the better player. I always enjoyed watching both play and especially liked Keegan, who was my favorite English player of all time. But as others mentioned the positions they played is already filled with talented players who all merit selection above the two of them (same applies to players like Baggio, Rivera, Cubillas who all were excellent players but not better in my view than those already selected).

[ManiacButcher]

Other Players:
-------------------Carrizo------------------------

-----Mauro Ramos-------------R. Koeman----------
C.A. Torres---------------------------------Junior

--------------------Ardiles-----------------------
--------Masopust------------Pedro Rocha---------

Julinho Botelho-----------------------------Blokhin
------------------Friedenreich--------------------

Subs:
Rinat Dassaev - GK
Hugo De León - CB
Luís Pereira - CB
Andreas Brehme - LB
Eric Gerets - RB
Nestor Rossi - DH
Fritz Walter - OH
Ademir da Guia - OH
Leônidas da Silva - CF
Rivelino - LWG
Raymond Kopa - RWG

This team could beat any of your teams!!!!!! :)

[Excape Goat]

National teams
West Germany 1974: 7 (Beckenbauer, Muller, Breitiner, Vogts, Maier, Overath, Netzer)
Brazil 58: 5 (Pele, Garrincha, Djalma Santos, Didi, Nilton dos Santos)
Brazil 62: 5(Pele, Garrincha, Djalma Santos, Didi, Nilton dos Santos)
France 1998:4(Zidane, Desailly, Thuram, Deschamps)
AC Milan mid 1990s: 4 (Desailly, Barsei, Maldini, Rijkaard)
Hungary 1954: 4 (Puskus, Bozsik, Czibor, Kocsis)
Italy 1982: 3 (Bergomi, Tardelli, Zoff)
Brazil 1994: 3 (Romário, Cafu, Ronaldo*unused sub)
Brazil 2002: 3 (Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Cafu)
Marseille 1993: 3 (Desailly, Deschamps, Amoros)
Holland 1988: 3 (van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit)
England 1966 3 (Moore, Banks, Charlton)
Holland 1974 3 (Cruyff Neeskens Krol)
Urugauty 1950: 2 (Varela, Schiaffino)
West Germany 1980: 2 (Rummenigge, Breitiner)
France 1984: 2 (Platini, Amoros)
Argentina 86: 2(Maradona,Ruggeri)
Germany 1996: 1 (Sammer)
Brazil 1982: 1 (Zico)
Brazil 70: 1 (Pele)
West Germany 1990: 1 (Matthaus)
Argentina 1978: 1 (Passarella)
Denmark 1992: 1 (Schmeichel)

Club teams
Real Madrid 1960s: 5 (Di Stéfano, Puskus, Didi, Gento, Santamaria)
AC Milan 1980s: 5 (Baresi, Maldini, van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit)
Bayern Munich 1970: 4 (Beckenbauer, Muller, Breitner, Maier)
Honved 1950s: 4 (Puskus, Bozsik, Czibor, Kocsis)
Ajax 1970s 3 (Cruyff Neeskens Krol)
Real Madrid current: 3 (Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo)
MU 1960s: 2 (Best, Charlton)
Juventus 1985: 2 (Platini, Tardelli)
Benefica 1968: 1(Eusebio)

unclassified: Matthews, Yashin, Marzolini, Facchetti, Figueroa, Charles, Finney, Nordahl, Domingos, Moreno, Monti, Zarra

[Excape Goat]

Have they played their soccer???

Real Madrid: 11 (Di Stéfano, Puskus, Didi, Gento, Santamaria, Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Breitner, Ruggeri, Netzer)
AC Milan: 9 (Baresi, Maldini, van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Desailly, Cafu, Schiaffino, Nordahl)
Juventus: 8 (Platini, Tardelli, Zidane, Charles, Deschamps, Thuram, Zoff, Monti)
Inter Milan: 8 (Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Passarella, Fachetti, Matthaeus, Bergomi, Tardelli, Sammer)
Barcelona: 7 (Maradona, Cruyff，Ronaldo, Romario, Neekens, Czibor, Kocsis)
Bayern Munich: 6 (Beckenbauer, Muller, Breitner, Maier, Matthaus, Rummenigge)
Boca Juniors: 6 (Maradona, Ruggeri, Marzolini, Domingos, Moreno, Monti)
Ajax: 5 (Cruyff, Neeskens, Krol, van Basten, Rijkaard)
Roma: 4 (Cafu, Charles, Schiaffino, Nordahl)
Flamengo: 4 (Garrincha, Zico, Romario, Domingos)
Honved: 4 (Puskus, Bozsik, Czibor, Kocsis)
River Plate: 4( Di Stefano, Passarella, Ruggeri, Moreno)
NY Cosmos: 3 (Pele, Beckenbauer, Neekens)
PSV: 3 (Gullit, Ronaldo, Romario)
Napoli: 3 (Maradona, Krol, Zoff)
Fort Lauderdale Strikers: 3 (Muller, Best, Banks)
Marseille: 3( Deschamps, Desailly, Amoros)
Borussia Moechengladbach: 3 (Matthaeus, Vogts, Netzer)
Manchester Utd: 3 (Best, Charlton, Schmeichel)
Peñarol : 3 (Varela, Figueroa, Schiaffino)
Chelsea: 3 (Deschamps, Gullit, Desailly)
Botafogo; 3 (Garrincha, Didi, Nilton Santos)
Palmeiras: 3 (D.Santos, Roberto Carlos, Cafu)
LA Aztecs: 2 (Cruyff, Best)
Corinthians 2 (Garrincha, Domingos)
Nantes: 2 (Deschamps, Desailly)
Bordeaux: 2 (Zidane, Deschamps)
Portuguesa: 2 (D.Santos, Nilton Santos)
Monaco: 2 (Thuram, Amoros)
Stoke: 2( Matthews, Banks)
Preston NE: 2 (Charlton, Finney)
Real Zaragoza: 2 (Rijkaard, Cafu)
Valencia: 2 (Deschamps, Romario)
Espanyol: 2 (Di Stéfano, Czibor)
Udinese: 2 (Zico, Zoff)
Huracan: 2 (Di Stéfano, Monti)
Nacional: 2 (Santamaria, Domingos)
Ferencvaros: 2 (Czibor, Kocsis)

[comme]

C.Alberto was class going forward, but not quite the defensive/offensive combo of a Djalma. Frankly, other than Djalma (and my boy Amoros from a purely personal bias here), I would not have found it strange for any of LBs picked to be left out.

As further example of the higher competition on the LB side, I submit to you that as a pure talent Junior was the equal of C.Alberto.....did any of the selection teams discuss Junior as a potential LB for their squads
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No love on the Coluna nomination, anyone?

We considered both Coluna and Junior but decided against both of them. In fact I think you would be hard pressed to find players we did not mention, we must have covered over 150 in our discussions.