Draft of Drafts

[minorthreat]

Team A Subs #3

Name: Nilton dos Santos

Position: Defender
Nationality: Brazilian
Caps/Goals: 75 caps, 3 goals

Full bio forthcoming.

[Sampe]

Some good knowledgable fans there.

Two thoughts:

1 - Can I claim royalties for my Bozsik bio? It was practically word for word.

2 - Who in their right mind picks Massaro for an all-time team?

1 - Yeah, I noticed that too at the time of the pick. Seems like I wasn't the only one who discovered this board of yours...and btw, I was going to select Bozsik with the 109th overall pick. He went 108th overall. Needless to say I was upset...but thanks for the idea anyways!

2 - Sorry, can't help you here. Wasn't my pick! :D

[lanman]

Team A go old school.

Zarra is certainly an interesting pick. He would probably have been too risky a pick for the first eleven, but a sub pick certainly seems deserving. I know very little about him (much like the rest of the world), but had certainly heard of him - mostly from my old Spanish boss.

[minorthreat]

Here's an idle thought: would anyone be up for choosing managers? It might be fun.

[tpmazembe]

and where do we go from here?Team A is finishing up their subs, and I'll PM Team B's captain to get some from them. As these are not the top 55 we can proceed with introduction of players that should have made the cut.
After we are done, we should bring up all the players who did not make the final cut but merited consideration. There are some legendary old timers who might have gotten picked if only we had some way to watch them in action.One of the reasons I think this has worked well (in addition to everyone’s knowledge and participation) is that guidelines structured the exercise.

I like the idea of identifying greats that did not make it, but our principles should not be too compromised. This was about identifying the greatest of the greats in a team selection context. It would be easy for any poster to name a handful or more of stellar players that they feel should have been recognized…that would not further our goal of exclusivity, and would be hard to debate.

In that vain I propose that any BS poster – whether involved as a selector or not – to feel free to present up to 3 players that should have made the cut of 55. By this, I don’t mean that it would have been nice if they had made it, but that it was an omission of the selectors for player X not to been included at the expense of a less worthy player.

Thus, present your nominee(s) (with some background info as short or long as you please) AND specifically call out the player that he should replace on either Teams A, B, C, D or E. The former without the latter is too easy. In that manner the poster should have some conviction about his/her assertion, and some debate around specific players’ relative merits can occur.

Team A-E selectors can also nominate players, but should respect their Team’s conscensus driven line-ups. Thus, if I nominate a player it cannot be at the expense of a Team C player – that would not be consistent with the process.

[lanman]

In that vain I propose that any BS poster – whether involved as a selector or not – to feel free to present up to 3 players that should have made the cut of 55. By this, I don’t mean that it would have been nice if they had made it, but that it was an omission of the selectors for player X not to been included at the expense of a less worthy player.

Thus, present your nominee(s) (with some background info as short or long as you please) AND specifically call out the player that he should replace on either Teams A, B, C, D or E. The former without the latter is too easy. In that manner the poster should have some conviction about his/her assertion, and some debate around specific players’ relative merits can occur.

Team A-E selectors can also nominate players, but should respect their Team’s conscensus driven line-ups. Thus, if I nominate a player it cannot be at the expense of a Team C player – that would not be consistent with the process.

I like that idea - there are certainly a number of players I feel would have merited inclusion, but not neccessarily at the expense of those picked. I assume it's going to be pretty pointless in nominating players against the substitutes, but can we argue for a player selected for the bench over someone in the starting elevens?.
I'll have to have a little think about this.

[tpmazembe]

I like that idea - there are certainly a number of players I feel would have merited inclusion, but not neccessarily at the expense of those picked. I assume it's going to be pretty pointless in nominating players against the substitutes, but can we argue for a player selected for the bench over someone in the starting elevens?.
I'll have to have a little think about this.Yes. A bench player can be nominated to the top 55 as long as you identify who comes off.

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This should not keep posters from joining in with free form discussion based on their thoughts regarding the draft and its results. Any items that sparked your interest are welcome. Any analyses you may have done is welcome. Any players you want to acknowledge but do not feel are in the highest of echelons are welcome.


I am still owing the thread a analysis of the draft results...

[Spartak]

Yes. A bench player can be nominated to the top 55 as long as you identify who comes off.

I nominate Deschamps to be taken off. :D

[tpmazembe]

I nominate Deschamps to be taken off. :D
I'll second that nomination....Who will you replace him with?....Gattuso!?! :)

But you bring up a good point Spartak....let's not have 100 players nominated to take Deschamp's place (or any other single player currently selected).

If you see that two to three players have already been nominated to replace a certain pick, go ahead and target someone else!

[Ombak]

I nominate Deschamps to be taken off. :D

Damn, not my team, I have so many names I'd put in his spot...

[lanman]

Given the formations and the players role within them (Deschamps being the perfect example - there is no-one better suited to do Maradona's donkey work) I think it's very difficult to justify any player not mentioned over those picked.
Other than Ricardo Zamora, who I beleive is interchangeable with any of the keepers selected, I have a list of 6 players I believe merit inclusion, but I cannot find anyone for them to displace.

[tpmazembe]

but I cannot find anyone for them to displace.
Don't sell yourself, or your players, short. Would they improve the team? You have to believe it if you think they should be in the 55. Nominate, and we'll debate...don't hold back.

[tpmazembe]

Here's an idle thought: would anyone be up for choosing managers? It might be fun.If you can round up your team I don't see why not. C-towner, I think it might be difficult as I think the selection teams have pretty much run their course; but if you guys are still in touch, by all means go ahead.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of the Selection Teams -- it is now the appropriate time to allow everyone to enjoy (laugh, sigh, puke, etc.) the deliberation process (or lack there of) each team went through over the 11 weeks. Everyone should feel free to drop in on http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=915

[Ombak]

If you can round up your team I don't see why not. C-towner, I think it might be difficult as I think the selection teams have pretty much run their course; but if you guys are still in touch, by all means go ahead.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of the Selection Teams -- it is now the appropriate time to allow everyone to enjoy (laugh, sigh, puke, etc.) the deliberation process (or lack there of) each team went through over the 11 weeks. Everyone should feel free to drop in on http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=915

I'm the manager!

What, you mean ones with professional experience? Like the players?

[ConorM]

So let me get this straight, no one chose Zico or Socrates? The 1982 possibly greatest international team of all time has been forgotten! Oh the shame. Deschamps was never the good a player, its well known, he put in a lot of effort but overall didn't do much. You would be much better off with someone like Bobby Robson or Roy Keane in there. Keane is twice the player.

[argentine soccer fan]

I suppose if we use common sense to keep this real, a guy who was chosen as a player is not elegible to be chosen as a manager. Right?

Which team gets to pick first?

[lanman]

OK here we go:


Raymond Kopa

for

Marco Van Basten

I don't have any doubts that Muller and Van Basten could play together, but I think that Team B would be better served with a more creative striker. Other than Maradona there is very little in terms of creativity in attack (relative to the other sides), and I think with Charlton and Maradona they can afford to sacrifice one of their goal-getters. For that reason I am nominating Kopa.

Raymond Kopa was the creative spark for Rheims and France in the 50's, and formed a formidable parternership with Just Fontaine. He played both centre forward and, in his short time at Madrid, right wing (he couldn't dislodge DiStefano from the middle) and in 1958 was named European Footballer of The Year for guiding France to the Semi-Finals of the World Cup. Although scoring wasn't his main strength, he still managed 18 in 45 games for France. Kopa also played in the first four European Cup Finals, and was the first player to play there for two different sides (in the first two tournaments).

[Ombak]

I suppose if we use common sense to keep this real, a guy who was chosen as a player is not elegible to be chosen as a manager. Right?

Maybe a player-manager if he's on that team already. There probably aren't any here that should be considered for top 5 managers of all time (except maybe, maybe one guy).

[Ombak]

So let me get this straight, no one chose Zico or Socrates? The 1982 possibly greatest international team of all time has been forgotten! Oh the shame. Deschamps was never the good a player, its well known, he put in a lot of effort but overall didn't do much. You would be much better off with someone like Bobby Robson or Roy Keane in there. Keane is twice the player.

Zico was picked, Socrates wasn't.

[lanman]

Don't sell yourself, or your players, short. Would they improve the team? You have to believe it if you think they should be in the 55. Nominate, and we'll debate...don't hold back.

Kopa is the only one I'm going to nominate - there is one I could argue for over a player in our side, but it's pretty much 50-50. Other than that I think if I was listing my top players there would be several not on this list, but it's about selecting teams and not individuals.